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> When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised

> When Altman was collecting the award at Cambridge the other year, protesters dropped in on the after-award public talk/Q&A session, and he actively empathised with the protestors. He always does that to give himself cover, but he has clearly shown that his words mean very little in this regard. He always dodges criticism. He used to talk about the importance of him being accountable to the OpenAI board and them being able to fire him if necessary when people were questioning the dangers of having one person have this much control over something as big as bleeding edge AI. He also used to mention how he had no direct financial interests in the company since he had no equity. Then the board did fire him. What happened next? He came back, the board is gone, he now openly has complete control over OpenAI, and they have given him a potentially huge equity package. I really don't think Sam Altman is particularly trustworthy. He will say whatever he needs to say to get what he wants.

kulahan 2y ago
Wasn't he fired for questionable reasons? I thought everyone wanted him back, and that's why he was able to return. It was, as I remember, just the board that wanted him out. I imagine if he was doing something truly nefarious, opinions might have been different, but I have no idea what kind of cult of personality he has at that company, so I might be wrong here.
- samvher 2y ago
  Define everyone. I was delighted when they fired him. I don't believe he has humanity's best interest at heart.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    745 of 770 employees responded on a weekend to call for his return, threatened mass resignations if the board did not resign; among the signatories was board member Sutskever, who defected from the board and publicly apologized for his participation in the board's previous actions.
    - fwip 2y ago
      745 of 700?
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Whoops, typo for 770, edited to correct. Thanks!
    - samvher 2y ago
      I followed the drama. The point I was (somewhat unsuccessfully) trying to make was that while, sure, there were groups who wanted him back (mainly the groups with vested financial interests and associated leverage), my sense was that the way it played out was not necessarily in line with wider humanity's best interest, i.e. as would have been hoped based on OpenAI's publicly stated goals.
      - ben_w 2y ago
        Oh, in that case sure. The statements in the whole popcorn drama still don't add up in my mind, so from the point of view of "humanity's best interest", I'd say it's still bad. I thought you meant at the time, not with the benefit of hindsight.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        >my sense was that the way it played out was not necessarily in line with wider humanity's best interest, Sure. But you make the foolish assumption here that humanity even has humanity's best interests at heart. Sentiment may be negative on current LLM generative based AI, but there's still plenty of people with either potential vested interests or simply seeing missing the forest for the tree. It's pretty hard to say "everyone hates/loves AI" at this current time.
    - LeafItAlone 2y ago
      >745 of 700 employees responded on a weekend to call for his return, threatened mass resignations if the board did not resign I would think final count doesn’t really matter. Self serving cowards, like me, would sign it once they see the way the wind was blowing. How many signed it before Satya at Microsoft indicated support for Altman?
  - KerryJones 2y ago
    * 747/770 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/747-of-770-openai-employees-including-the-one-who-fired-him-ask-the-board-to-resign-and?time=1700571148 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/747-of-770-openai-employees-...
- tasuki 2y ago
  > I thought everyone wanted him back, and that's why he was able to return. Everyone working at OpenAI wanted him back. Which only includes people who have a significant motivation to see OpenAI succeed financially. Also, there are rumours he can be vindictive. For all I know, that might be a smear campaign. But if that were the case, and half the people at OpenAI wanted him back, the other half would have a motivation to follow so as not to get whatever punishment from Sam.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    It sounds to me people working in AI these days have a lot more options than being fraid of a particularly vindictive man.
    - strogonoff 2y ago
      Between just working on ML tech and working on ML tech with US$XXX billion of Microsoft’s money—salaries aside—imaginably, having access to nuclear plants worth of energy, compute power and cutting edge GPUs, legal department for defending intellectual property violation, etc., makes for a very different value proposition compared to some other startup in the space. (The self-image of working at a company allegedly “advancing humanity” likely helps, too.)
      - Aeolun 2y ago
        True to some extend. But if you have OpenAI on your resume I have to imagine there’s no necessity for your next job to be much different (e.g. go to any FAANG)
        strogonoff 2y ago
        I think (based on very shallow research) among FAANG behemoths Meta is the closest in terms of resources thrown at ML, but it’s an ad company that hasn’t got such a “we advance humanity” image. Equity vesting and that sort of stuff can additionally make moving companies a problematic prospect, even if the new place offered a competitive salary…
- Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
  > I thought everyone wanted him back, Ilyia Sutskever who was the chief Scientist of the company and honestly irreplacable in terms of AI knowledge left after Altman returned.
  - drawnwren 2y ago
    Only 1 of the 6 board members are still at OAI.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    He also apologized and said he was wrong.
    - sillyfluke 2y ago
      That was only after it was apparent that a majority of employees would back Altman's return I believe. A majority of which who had spent less time with him than Ilya had in all likelihood.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  At the time, was it possible for people working at OpenAI to, er, "cash out"? I don't actually know the answer to that, but I'm suggesting that perhaps people had additional motives for the organization to preserve its current hype/investment growth strategies.
- this_user 2y ago
  > Wasn't he fired for questionable reasons? There were a number of concerns, including for-profit projects he was pursuing despite his public insistence on OpenAI being non-profit as well as generally deceptive behaviour on his part. The last part at least is consistent with what others have said about Altman previously, including what allegedly led to his exit from YC, although they have kept those stories pretty quiet. But it seems like PG himself no longer has a lot of trust in Altman after he basically made him his heir apparent, and he has known him for a while now. What's more, the driving force behind the board's move to remove him from OpenAI was reportedly Ilya Sutskever who was one of their key people and one of the handful of original founders. So it wasn't just a bunch of external people who wanted Altman gone, but at least one high level insider who has been around for the entire thing. Altman himself was even once asked by journalists whether we could trust him to which he outright answered "no". But then he pointed to the fact that the board could remove him for any reason. Clearly, he was suggesting that there were strong safe guards in place to keep him in check, but it is now apparent that those safe guards never really existed while his answer still stands.
  - harrall 2y ago
    Don’t pay much particular attention to AI but I’m not seeing the knock on him saying “no.” What human in the world could be trusted with AI? Only delusional people could say yes to that question.
    - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
      a smartphone can be used to guide an ICBM. what human in the would could be trusted with it?
      - MaxfordAndSons 2y ago
        Most humans are frequently harming themselves (and sometimes harming others) with their smartphones, so...
      - johnisgood 2y ago
        A road can be used for abductions, acts of violence, and other harmful activities. What human in the world could be trusted with it [roads]?
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  He was fired because he was leading the for profit in a direction that was contrary to the mission of the non profit parent that was supposed to be controlling the for profit. Those working for the for profit got $$$ in their eyes once MSFT started throwing billions at them and said fuck the mission and bring back Altman we’re going full Gordon Gekko now.
yard2010 2y ago
This guy is outright scary. He gives me the chills.
- bayarearefugee 2y ago
  the whole group of these techbro billionaires come off as barely human ghouls when you hear them speak, imo see also: peter thiel on piers morgan recently.
  - Yeul 2y ago
    They probably know that nobody would vote for them which is why they fund Trump and other politicians who do have social skills.
Waterluvian 2y ago
Indeed. Words are very very inexpensive and fool a lot of people. Never pay attention to any words. Judge people by their actions.

kulahan 2y ago

Wasn't he fired for questionable reasons? I thought everyone wanted him back, and that's why he was able to return. It was, as I remember, just the board that wanted him out. I imagine if he was doing something truly nefarious, opinions might have been different, but I have no idea what kind of cult of personality he has at that company, so I might be wrong here.

samvher 2y ago
Define everyone. I was delighted when they fired him. I don't believe he has humanity's best interest at heart.
- ben_w 2y ago
  745 of 770 employees responded on a weekend to call for his return, threatened mass resignations if the board did not resign; among the signatories was board member Sutskever, who defected from the board and publicly apologized for his participation in the board's previous actions.
  - fwip 2y ago
    745 of 700?
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Whoops, typo for 770, edited to correct. Thanks!
  - samvher 2y ago
    I followed the drama. The point I was (somewhat unsuccessfully) trying to make was that while, sure, there were groups who wanted him back (mainly the groups with vested financial interests and associated leverage), my sense was that the way it played out was not necessarily in line with wider humanity's best interest, i.e. as would have been hoped based on OpenAI's publicly stated goals.
    - ben_w 2y ago
      Oh, in that case sure. The statements in the whole popcorn drama still don't add up in my mind, so from the point of view of "humanity's best interest", I'd say it's still bad. I thought you meant at the time, not with the benefit of hindsight.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >my sense was that the way it played out was not necessarily in line with wider humanity's best interest, Sure. But you make the foolish assumption here that humanity even has humanity's best interests at heart. Sentiment may be negative on current LLM generative based AI, but there's still plenty of people with either potential vested interests or simply seeing missing the forest for the tree. It's pretty hard to say "everyone hates/loves AI" at this current time.
  - LeafItAlone 2y ago
    >745 of 700 employees responded on a weekend to call for his return, threatened mass resignations if the board did not resign I would think final count doesn’t really matter. Self serving cowards, like me, would sign it once they see the way the wind was blowing. How many signed it before Satya at Microsoft indicated support for Altman?
- KerryJones 2y ago
  * 747/770 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/747-of-770-openai-employees-including-the-one-who-fired-him-ask-the-board-to-resign-and?time=1700571148 https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/747-of-770-openai-employees-...
tasuki 2y ago
> I thought everyone wanted him back, and that's why he was able to return. Everyone working at OpenAI wanted him back. Which only includes people who have a significant motivation to see OpenAI succeed financially. Also, there are rumours he can be vindictive. For all I know, that might be a smear campaign. But if that were the case, and half the people at OpenAI wanted him back, the other half would have a motivation to follow so as not to get whatever punishment from Sam.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  It sounds to me people working in AI these days have a lot more options than being fraid of a particularly vindictive man.
  - strogonoff 2y ago
    Between just working on ML tech and working on ML tech with US$XXX billion of Microsoft’s money—salaries aside—imaginably, having access to nuclear plants worth of energy, compute power and cutting edge GPUs, legal department for defending intellectual property violation, etc., makes for a very different value proposition compared to some other startup in the space. (The self-image of working at a company allegedly “advancing humanity” likely helps, too.)
    - Aeolun 2y ago
      True to some extend. But if you have OpenAI on your resume I have to imagine there’s no necessity for your next job to be much different (e.g. go to any FAANG)
      - strogonoff 2y ago
        I think (based on very shallow research) among FAANG behemoths Meta is the closest in terms of resources thrown at ML, but it’s an ad company that hasn’t got such a “we advance humanity” image. Equity vesting and that sort of stuff can additionally make moving companies a problematic prospect, even if the new place offered a competitive salary…
Arkhaine_kupo 2y ago
> I thought everyone wanted him back, Ilyia Sutskever who was the chief Scientist of the company and honestly irreplacable in terms of AI knowledge left after Altman returned.
- drawnwren 2y ago
  Only 1 of the 6 board members are still at OAI.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  He also apologized and said he was wrong.
  - sillyfluke 2y ago
    That was only after it was apparent that a majority of employees would back Altman's return I believe. A majority of which who had spent less time with him than Ilya had in all likelihood.
Terr_ 2y ago
At the time, was it possible for people working at OpenAI to, er, "cash out"? I don't actually know the answer to that, but I'm suggesting that perhaps people had additional motives for the organization to preserve its current hype/investment growth strategies.
this_user 2y ago
> Wasn't he fired for questionable reasons? There were a number of concerns, including for-profit projects he was pursuing despite his public insistence on OpenAI being non-profit as well as generally deceptive behaviour on his part. The last part at least is consistent with what others have said about Altman previously, including what allegedly led to his exit from YC, although they have kept those stories pretty quiet. But it seems like PG himself no longer has a lot of trust in Altman after he basically made him his heir apparent, and he has known him for a while now. What's more, the driving force behind the board's move to remove him from OpenAI was reportedly Ilya Sutskever who was one of their key people and one of the handful of original founders. So it wasn't just a bunch of external people who wanted Altman gone, but at least one high level insider who has been around for the entire thing. Altman himself was even once asked by journalists whether we could trust him to which he outright answered "no". But then he pointed to the fact that the board could remove him for any reason. Clearly, he was suggesting that there were strong safe guards in place to keep him in check, but it is now apparent that those safe guards never really existed while his answer still stands.
- harrall 2y ago
  Don’t pay much particular attention to AI but I’m not seeing the knock on him saying “no.” What human in the world could be trusted with AI? Only delusional people could say yes to that question.
  - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
    a smartphone can be used to guide an ICBM. what human in the would could be trusted with it?
    - MaxfordAndSons 2y ago
      Most humans are frequently harming themselves (and sometimes harming others) with their smartphones, so...
    - johnisgood 2y ago
      A road can be used for abductions, acts of violence, and other harmful activities. What human in the world could be trusted with it [roads]?
insane_dreamer 2y ago
He was fired because he was leading the for profit in a direction that was contrary to the mission of the non profit parent that was supposed to be controlling the for profit. Those working for the for profit got $$$ in their eyes once MSFT started throwing billions at them and said fuck the mission and bring back Altman we’re going full Gordon Gekko now.

yard2010 2y ago

This guy is outright scary. He gives me the chills.

bayarearefugee 2y ago
the whole group of these techbro billionaires come off as barely human ghouls when you hear them speak, imo see also: peter thiel on piers morgan recently.
- Yeul 2y ago
  They probably know that nobody would vote for them which is why they fund Trump and other politicians who do have social skills.

Waterluvian 2y ago

Indeed. Words are very very inexpensive and fool a lot of people. Never pay attention to any words. Judge people by their actions.