9 ms·

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track 2 cases are more complicated, but just wanted to add my story as reporting on MAID spins out of control in our culture war milieu.

guyzero 2y ago
I'm sorry for your loss.
fellowniusmonk 2y ago
Yeah man, it does suck. I do wish I'd had more time with both my parents, they both died really early in their 50s, I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. I wish my mother had been given the option in her early 50s, the number of people punished by authoritarian governments that deny self determinism and force people to be put through experiences literally worse than torture is mind boggling, I cannot fathom it. I don't think anyone who has seen it even a single time can honestly make slippery slope arguments, I have to assume it's ignorance and that these people are simply "actually" nerds doing recreational theory crafting. I assume it's the same headspace as flat earthers, it doesn't effect me so why should I care about aligning my thoughts with the real world, let me invent theoretical overlords and victims and argue about this new synthetic world that exists in my imagination. I just can't be uncharitable enough to believe a person who has seen it first hand, that a person would embrace such unfettered cruelty as to deny a person living in constant hell a drop of water. That being said... fuck, back in 2000 I did meet a bunch of people that denied hiv existed and said even if it did it was a punishment on gay people and it would be better if it wasn't cured so they would be scared and "behave" (yes, I personally met these people, the non-existence was rare but the "shouldn't develop treatment" was not a minority view in the city I lived in at the time.) After my mother died, for a while I volunteered with "No one dies alone.", I doubt a single person who has done so for any length of time is going to argue "slippery slope".
- gosub100 2y ago
  I think it would take flat-earth level idiocy to think you need the government's blessing to "self-determine".
  - navane 2y ago
    It's not about blessing, it's about people being sent to jail for colluding with a self determinator. People get sent to jail for assisting someone, even if it's just to buy some stuff. That's government overreach.
- svieira 2y ago
  > I just can't be uncharitable enough to believe a person who has seen it first hand, that a person would embrace such unfettered cruelty as to deny a person living in constant hell a drop of water. I have seen it first hand. Suicide is not a drop of water, it's a loaded .45. That said there's a qualitative moral difference between easing someone's pain in a way that may hasten death and killing them to ease their pain. Almost no one who argues against MAID is arguing for "all medical interventions, forever".
- justinclift 2y ago
  > ... I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. Unfortunately there are situations where things are a bit different from that. For example, where a parent is (very) abusive. :(
  - fellowniusmonk 2y ago
    Of course your absolutely right and I'm very sorry if that's been your experience. I was trying to allude to the saying "you can never have enough time with the ones you love" which I took as a pivot away from solely parents (ones that are loved) but maybe I was too implicit and that isn't a widly known saying and it seems that by trying to allude to it, I left my intended meaning unclear. Sorry about that.
HenryBemis 2y ago
Sorry for your loss. I don't know if he got to explain to you (all) the reasons behind his choice. My fear is that I will be 70-80-90, I won't be able to serve myself even for the very basics, I will have lost my memory, and will be a total burden (all the pain - zero joy) to my close family. Why would I do this to them? Perhaps he had a motivation like this - to make sure he won't hurt your lives, your relationships, etc. Either way, it is a very difficult choice..
- selcuka 2y ago
  > I will have lost my memory, and will be a total burden (all the pain - zero joy) to my close family. We need some kind of "smart contract" for such cases. Maybe an IFTTT or Zapier workflow that automatically activates the MAID clause if predefined conditions (that you chose while you are still conscious) are met.
llamaLord 2y ago
These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As horrible as this might sound, often it's failed suicide attempts that actually are the catalysts for people being able to get their lives back on track... What happens in a society where the government helps facilitate suicide and there's never any "attempts" anymore... Just successes...
- navane 2y ago
  That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.
  - larme 2y ago
    The same logic applies to capital punishment
    - cocacola1 2y ago
      I don't think Canada has the death penalty.
    - addicted 2y ago
      I don’t follow. How does this apply to capital punishment?
      - itake 2y ago
        Many people are opposed to capital punishment due to the small minority of innocent folks it eliminates. > By steering the discussion to that [innocent] minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water [and killing the really bad criminals].
datavirtue 2y ago
ALS will destroy your family if you try to stick it out. Best to go on your own terms.

guyzero 2y ago

I'm sorry for your loss.

fellowniusmonk 2y ago

Yeah man, it does suck. I do wish I'd had more time with both my parents, they both died really early in their 50s, I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. I wish my mother had been given the option in her early 50s, the number of people punished by authoritarian governments that deny self determinism and force people to be put through experiences literally worse than torture is mind boggling, I cannot fathom it. I don't think anyone who has seen it even a single time can honestly make slippery slope arguments, I have to assume it's ignorance and that these people are simply "actually" nerds doing recreational theory crafting. I assume it's the same headspace as flat earthers, it doesn't effect me so why should I care about aligning my thoughts with the real world, let me invent theoretical overlords and victims and argue about this new synthetic world that exists in my imagination. I just can't be uncharitable enough to believe a person who has seen it first hand, that a person would embrace such unfettered cruelty as to deny a person living in constant hell a drop of water. That being said... fuck, back in 2000 I did meet a bunch of people that denied hiv existed and said even if it did it was a punishment on gay people and it would be better if it wasn't cured so they would be scared and "behave" (yes, I personally met these people, the non-existence was rare but the "shouldn't develop treatment" was not a minority view in the city I lived in at the time.) After my mother died, for a while I volunteered with "No one dies alone.", I doubt a single person who has done so for any length of time is going to argue "slippery slope".

gosub100 2y ago
I think it would take flat-earth level idiocy to think you need the government's blessing to "self-determine".
- navane 2y ago
  It's not about blessing, it's about people being sent to jail for colluding with a self determinator. People get sent to jail for assisting someone, even if it's just to buy some stuff. That's government overreach.
svieira 2y ago
> I just can't be uncharitable enough to believe a person who has seen it first hand, that a person would embrace such unfettered cruelty as to deny a person living in constant hell a drop of water. I have seen it first hand. Suicide is not a drop of water, it's a loaded .45. That said there's a qualitative moral difference between easing someone's pain in a way that may hasten death and killing them to ease their pain. Almost no one who argues against MAID is arguing for "all medical interventions, forever".
justinclift 2y ago
> ... I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. Unfortunately there are situations where things are a bit different from that. For example, where a parent is (very) abusive. :(
- fellowniusmonk 2y ago
  Of course your absolutely right and I'm very sorry if that's been your experience. I was trying to allude to the saying "you can never have enough time with the ones you love" which I took as a pivot away from solely parents (ones that are loved) but maybe I was too implicit and that isn't a widly known saying and it seems that by trying to allude to it, I left my intended meaning unclear. Sorry about that.

HenryBemis 2y ago

Sorry for your loss. I don't know if he got to explain to you (all) the reasons behind his choice. My fear is that I will be 70-80-90, I won't be able to serve myself even for the very basics, I will have lost my memory, and will be a total burden (all the pain - zero joy) to my close family. Why would I do this to them? Perhaps he had a motivation like this - to make sure he won't hurt your lives, your relationships, etc. Either way, it is a very difficult choice..

selcuka 2y ago
> I will have lost my memory, and will be a total burden (all the pain - zero joy) to my close family. We need some kind of "smart contract" for such cases. Maybe an IFTTT or Zapier workflow that automatically activates the MAID clause if predefined conditions (that you chose while you are still conscious) are met.

llamaLord 2y ago

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As horrible as this might sound, often it's failed suicide attempts that actually are the catalysts for people being able to get their lives back on track... What happens in a society where the government helps facilitate suicide and there's never any "attempts" anymore... Just successes...

navane 2y ago
That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.
- larme 2y ago
  The same logic applies to capital punishment
  - cocacola1 2y ago
    I don't think Canada has the death penalty.
  - addicted 2y ago
    I don’t follow. How does this apply to capital punishment?
    - itake 2y ago
      Many people are opposed to capital punishment due to the small minority of innocent folks it eliminates. > By steering the discussion to that [innocent] minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water [and killing the really bad criminals].

datavirtue 2y ago

ALS will destroy your family if you try to stick it out. Best to go on your own terms.