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Google's VR/XR strategy has been very stop-and-go, between Cardboard, Daydream, and a host of their VR applications they invested into 8 years ago (Poly, Earth,

Google's VR/XR strategy has been very stop-and-go, between Cardboard, Daydream, and a host of their VR applications they invested into 8 years ago (Poly, Earth, TiltBrush). It's obvious they don't want to be a leader in the space - just want to hedge their bets in case it becomes a viable market. If they maintained a steady presence in the space, I think Daydream could be competitive as a lower-entry-point alternative to the Quest headsets - which - since they run Android, would be potentially mutually beneficial.

askafriend 2y ago
> If they maintained a steady presence in the space Problem is no one gets promoted for that. That would require a vision and strong leadership. Something both Apple and Meta have but Google does not.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I think it's perhaps not quite that. If this post[0] is correct, then this is Google's intended way of doing things. They intentionally do not have strong leadership, because they don't believe that's the best way for them to operate. Whether or not that's "right" or "wrong" (or neither) is of course up for debate. I personally think they could probably use at least some top-down initiatives here and there, but overall I think having most of their decisions be bottom-up is a nice way to work. I think their culture around that may not be quite right, though, as it seems to incentivize project-hopping and not seeing things through past the explosive "wow factor" phase. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42404117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42404117
  - askafriend 2y ago
    I don't think that post is entirely true. It's overly simplistic and I don't think any of my friends or family that work at Google would agree wholeheartedly with that characterization. You may still have a broader point that's worth considering but I don't think it negates my characterization of their issues entirely.
CountHackulus 2y ago
That's basically Google's strategy on everything.
- throw0101d 2y ago
  >> Google's VR/XR strategy has been very stop-and-go […] > That's basically Google's strategy on everything. https://killedbygoogle.com https://killedbygoogle.com
cokeandpepsi 2y ago
[dead]
cush 2y ago
Exactly. Had you asked me yesterday if Android XR already existed, I would have assumed yes they built it like 10 years ago... Remember Google Cardboard? Google Glasses? I look forward to their definite announcement of Pixel Glasses in the coming months, as this certainly won't be something they completely forget about by next quarter
- kelnos 2y ago
  It's not super clear from the article, but it kinda feels like Google isn't intending to do more hardware. It seems like Android XR is a platform to get other companies to take on that risk. It feels like Google wants there to be an answer to Apple Vision Pro, still isn't completely sold on the idea, but wants someone else to build it using Android. I'm not sure what other Android-using company would want to take that on, though. This feels a little risky even for Samsung; I'm curious what their "Project Moohan" device will look like... will it be crazy expensive and high-tech like AVP, or will it be something much more lightweight? The photos out there seem to suggest something lower-end than AVP, but it's hard to tell.
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    According to long standing rumors, the Samsung headset is supposed to have micro-OLED screens just like the AVP, that alone is likely to push the price to a minimum of $2000 to $2500.
  - kllrnohj 2y ago
    > I'm not sure what other Android-using company would want to take that on, though. Meta uses Android for the Quest. Will Meta adopt Android XR instead of maintaining their own Android fork? Possibly, possibly not. But they are definitely an Android-using company willing to take on the Apple Vision Pro seeing as they are already, you know, doing that.
    - pjerem 2y ago
      Meta just announced Horizon OS (without saying what it will change) and the Quest/Horizon OS is both pretty good technically but also infuriatingly artificially limited. It really doesn’t looks like Meta is going to give up control in this platform anytime soon.
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
I'm a little sour about Google Cardboard. It was and still is the greatest accessible 3 DoF VR implementation in my opinion. What a fantastic concept.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
  It would be a nice use of "old" phones as well. Load up some old phones with Virtual Virtual Reality and other games.
- JeremyNT 2y ago
  Yeah I think it was a huge missed opportunity. The idea was great, the barrier to entry was really low, and it worked really well for stuff like street view / google earth. I showed it to my daughter the other day and she was really impressed. There's only one remaining app that can use it afaik.
  - adfm 2y ago
    Handset hardware and ML/CV software has improved in the decade since Google Cardboard came out. 6DoF is definitely possible. The Sketchfab viewer still supports Cardboard: https://sketchfab.com/models/45f5e56887f44075bbf283977c99541f/embed?autostart=1&internal=1&tracking=0&ui_ar=0&ui_infos=0&ui_snapshots=1&ui_stop=0&ui_theatre=1&ui_watermark=0 https://sketchfab.com/models/45f5e56887f44075bbf283977c99541...
  - ryukoposting 2y ago
    AFAICT there are zero for Daydream. I have an old Daydream headset. It's been useless for... 2 years now? 3?
  - rtsil 2y ago
    It was extraordinary for watching movies. except the fact that the phone would be burning hot after 10 minutes.
  - grumbel 2y ago
    Google Daydream is dead, no longer supported by modern phones, the store no longer works and they removed all Daydream specific features from their own apps. Getting a Lenovo Mirage Solo to work is possible, but requires a lot of workarounds, side loading and software downgrades. The older Google Cardboard on the other side got open sourced and is still somewhat alive, works on modern phones and even the Youtube app still has support for it. It is however not getting any attention from developers, since everybody that cares about VR has long moved on to Quest or given up on VR. Cardboard due to not having controller and limited to 3DOF was a dead end.
kfarr 2y ago
This x100, I wrote a similar message on a WebXR forum. They've started and stopped so many times it's hard to take this effort seriously. Is this just exec FOMO trying to catchup to Apple and Meta? Or do they really believe in this? I don't think it's the latter.
- radicaldreamer 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - georgeecollins 2y ago
    Which is why you would have to be insane to develop software for them. Twice in my career I have been involved in development projects for Google hardware (wear and daydream). Never again.
    - zx8080 2y ago
      Why exactly was the promotion motivation bad?
      - johannes1234321 2y ago
        The risk/assumption is that once the lead developer/PM/etc. got their promotion l, they get for doing something "new" this is being dropped for a new project as maintenance brings less points for promotions.
        8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
        Not less points, zero points.
      - fnfjfk 2y ago
        They're complaining about developing software for Google platforms, not working at Google. The platform will get dropped because it no longer has the opportunity to fuel more L6 promos. I think the obvious notable exception is Android, which is not going anywhere and which now has a fairly delightful development experience with Kotlin and Compose.
pjmlp 2y ago
Watching Google talks at GDC throughout the years, convinced me that they don't have any idea how to deal with game studios, exactly the ones relevant to VR/XR. They mostly talk about PlayStore analytics and marketing approaches, seldom about game technology or design.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  I think of what a missed opportunity Stadia was because they didn't have a culture where people who are knowledgeable about game dev were listened to. Titanfall was a game that couldn't be made until the cloud and Stadia could have done the same for game streaming -- any new platform needs it's Super Mario Brothers that makes you rethink what games can be, otherwise players will ignore it.
  - marksomnian 2y ago
    > Titanfall was a game that couldn't be made until the cloud What do you mean by this?
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      See https://www.engadget.com/2014-03-10-titanfall-cloud-explained.html https://www.engadget.com/2014-03-10-titanfall-cloud-explaine...
      - fnfjfk 2y ago
        Ah TF1, TF2 (err... hmm... that's something else) had a normal campaign, and a very very good one at that.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Definitely, imagine coming to game studios talking them into rewriting into Linux/Vulkan, using command line and gdb, when the culture is using Windows and Visual Studio, including the devkits plugins for Sony and Nintendo consoles. This with Google's background in long term investments. And to come back to my point, many of the talks I was referring to, were in the context of Android games and Stadia, most still available online.
JamesAdir 2y ago
I think that's exactly the reason why they've brand it under "Android" and not as a product for mass market. Seems more like a platform for other vendors and just a proof of concept, than a real product they might want to move forward with.
shatsky 2y ago
Cardboard is still here, YouTube app can play VR videos via it, Chrome for Android provides WebXR support via it, it's 3DoF only, but main usecase for phone VR is VR stereoscopic video which is 3DoF anyway. Daydream was attempt to create another proprietary ecosystem and is obsolete. Since then OpenXR has won as cross platform, cross vendor, open standard XR API, if Android gets standard OpenXR runtime with good 6DoF tracking and shell support everyone will be happy.

askafriend 2y ago

> If they maintained a steady presence in the space Problem is no one gets promoted for that. That would require a vision and strong leadership. Something both Apple and Meta have but Google does not.

kelnos 2y ago
I think it's perhaps not quite that. If this post[0] is correct, then this is Google's intended way of doing things. They intentionally do not have strong leadership, because they don't believe that's the best way for them to operate. Whether or not that's "right" or "wrong" (or neither) is of course up for debate. I personally think they could probably use at least some top-down initiatives here and there, but overall I think having most of their decisions be bottom-up is a nice way to work. I think their culture around that may not be quite right, though, as it seems to incentivize project-hopping and not seeing things through past the explosive "wow factor" phase. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42404117 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42404117
- askafriend 2y ago
  I don't think that post is entirely true. It's overly simplistic and I don't think any of my friends or family that work at Google would agree wholeheartedly with that characterization. You may still have a broader point that's worth considering but I don't think it negates my characterization of their issues entirely.

CountHackulus 2y ago

That's basically Google's strategy on everything.

throw0101d 2y ago
>> Google's VR/XR strategy has been very stop-and-go […] > That's basically Google's strategy on everything. https://killedbygoogle.com https://killedbygoogle.com

cokeandpepsi 2y ago

[dead]

cush 2y ago

Exactly. Had you asked me yesterday if Android XR already existed, I would have assumed yes they built it like 10 years ago... Remember Google Cardboard? Google Glasses? I look forward to their definite announcement of Pixel Glasses in the coming months, as this certainly won't be something they completely forget about by next quarter

kelnos 2y ago
It's not super clear from the article, but it kinda feels like Google isn't intending to do more hardware. It seems like Android XR is a platform to get other companies to take on that risk. It feels like Google wants there to be an answer to Apple Vision Pro, still isn't completely sold on the idea, but wants someone else to build it using Android. I'm not sure what other Android-using company would want to take that on, though. This feels a little risky even for Samsung; I'm curious what their "Project Moohan" device will look like... will it be crazy expensive and high-tech like AVP, or will it be something much more lightweight? The photos out there seem to suggest something lower-end than AVP, but it's hard to tell.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  According to long standing rumors, the Samsung headset is supposed to have micro-OLED screens just like the AVP, that alone is likely to push the price to a minimum of $2000 to $2500.
- kllrnohj 2y ago
  > I'm not sure what other Android-using company would want to take that on, though. Meta uses Android for the Quest. Will Meta adopt Android XR instead of maintaining their own Android fork? Possibly, possibly not. But they are definitely an Android-using company willing to take on the Apple Vision Pro seeing as they are already, you know, doing that.
  - pjerem 2y ago
    Meta just announced Horizon OS (without saying what it will change) and the Quest/Horizon OS is both pretty good technically but also infuriatingly artificially limited. It really doesn’t looks like Meta is going to give up control in this platform anytime soon.

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

I'm a little sour about Google Cardboard. It was and still is the greatest accessible 3 DoF VR implementation in my opinion. What a fantastic concept.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
It would be a nice use of "old" phones as well. Load up some old phones with Virtual Virtual Reality and other games.
JeremyNT 2y ago
Yeah I think it was a huge missed opportunity. The idea was great, the barrier to entry was really low, and it worked really well for stuff like street view / google earth. I showed it to my daughter the other day and she was really impressed. There's only one remaining app that can use it afaik.
- adfm 2y ago
  Handset hardware and ML/CV software has improved in the decade since Google Cardboard came out. 6DoF is definitely possible. The Sketchfab viewer still supports Cardboard: https://sketchfab.com/models/45f5e56887f44075bbf283977c99541f/embed?autostart=1&internal=1&tracking=0&ui_ar=0&ui_infos=0&ui_snapshots=1&ui_stop=0&ui_theatre=1&ui_watermark=0 https://sketchfab.com/models/45f5e56887f44075bbf283977c99541...
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  AFAICT there are zero for Daydream. I have an old Daydream headset. It's been useless for... 2 years now? 3?
- rtsil 2y ago
  It was extraordinary for watching movies. except the fact that the phone would be burning hot after 10 minutes.
- grumbel 2y ago
  Google Daydream is dead, no longer supported by modern phones, the store no longer works and they removed all Daydream specific features from their own apps. Getting a Lenovo Mirage Solo to work is possible, but requires a lot of workarounds, side loading and software downgrades. The older Google Cardboard on the other side got open sourced and is still somewhat alive, works on modern phones and even the Youtube app still has support for it. It is however not getting any attention from developers, since everybody that cares about VR has long moved on to Quest or given up on VR. Cardboard due to not having controller and limited to 3DOF was a dead end.

kfarr 2y ago

This x100, I wrote a similar message on a WebXR forum. They've started and stopped so many times it's hard to take this effort seriously. Is this just exec FOMO trying to catchup to Apple and Meta? Or do they really believe in this? I don't think it's the latter.

radicaldreamer 2y ago
[flagged]
- georgeecollins 2y ago
  Which is why you would have to be insane to develop software for them. Twice in my career I have been involved in development projects for Google hardware (wear and daydream). Never again.
  - zx8080 2y ago
    Why exactly was the promotion motivation bad?
    - johannes1234321 2y ago
      The risk/assumption is that once the lead developer/PM/etc. got their promotion l, they get for doing something "new" this is being dropped for a new project as maintenance brings less points for promotions.
      - 8n4vidtmkvmk 2y ago
        Not less points, zero points.
    - fnfjfk 2y ago
      They're complaining about developing software for Google platforms, not working at Google. The platform will get dropped because it no longer has the opportunity to fuel more L6 promos. I think the obvious notable exception is Android, which is not going anywhere and which now has a fairly delightful development experience with Kotlin and Compose.

pjmlp 2y ago

Watching Google talks at GDC throughout the years, convinced me that they don't have any idea how to deal with game studios, exactly the ones relevant to VR/XR. They mostly talk about PlayStore analytics and marketing approaches, seldom about game technology or design.

PaulHoule 2y ago
I think of what a missed opportunity Stadia was because they didn't have a culture where people who are knowledgeable about game dev were listened to. Titanfall was a game that couldn't be made until the cloud and Stadia could have done the same for game streaming -- any new platform needs it's Super Mario Brothers that makes you rethink what games can be, otherwise players will ignore it.
- marksomnian 2y ago
  > Titanfall was a game that couldn't be made until the cloud What do you mean by this?
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    See https://www.engadget.com/2014-03-10-titanfall-cloud-explained.html https://www.engadget.com/2014-03-10-titanfall-cloud-explaine...
    - fnfjfk 2y ago
      Ah TF1, TF2 (err... hmm... that's something else) had a normal campaign, and a very very good one at that.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Definitely, imagine coming to game studios talking them into rewriting into Linux/Vulkan, using command line and gdb, when the culture is using Windows and Visual Studio, including the devkits plugins for Sony and Nintendo consoles. This with Google's background in long term investments. And to come back to my point, many of the talks I was referring to, were in the context of Android games and Stadia, most still available online.

JamesAdir 2y ago

I think that's exactly the reason why they've brand it under "Android" and not as a product for mass market. Seems more like a platform for other vendors and just a proof of concept, than a real product they might want to move forward with.

shatsky 2y ago

Cardboard is still here, YouTube app can play VR videos via it, Chrome for Android provides WebXR support via it, it's 3DoF only, but main usecase for phone VR is VR stereoscopic video which is 3DoF anyway. Daydream was attempt to create another proprietary ecosystem and is obsolete. Since then OpenXR has won as cross platform, cross vendor, open standard XR API, if Android gets standard OpenXR runtime with good 6DoF tracking and shell support everyone will be happy.