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Notre Dame Cathedral reopens
- 5563221177 2y ago[flagged]
- taylorlapeyre 2y agoI wonder what would a ceremony like this look like before the era of cameras broadcasting every move to the entire planet simultaneously. It does seem like a lot of this is performative in the “showtime” sense, and I wonder if the character of an event like this would be more “practical” in another time.
- icegreentea2 2y agoWhat does a practical opening ceremony even mean? It's in the name, it's a ceremony, a ritual. Even if it wasn't being broadcasted, this is an act of prestige that flows both ways. Power people go these events to lend their gravitas, and power people go to these events to borrow from the gravitas.
- thomassmith65 2y agoIf cathedrals were practical, they'd look like big cross-shaped barns. To turn the restoration of a city's cathedral into a spectacle befits their nature. They were supposed to inspire awe.
- paxys 2y agoYou think pomp and ceremony weren't a thing before the TV/social media age?
- highcountess 2y agoYou may enjoy reading Pillars of the Earth
- ladyinthelake 2y ago[flagged]
- gerdesj 2y agoWhat a beauty! Its been rebuilt (restored is a tricky concept here) in largely the same materials and in the same form as the original, prior to various restoration efforts through the centuries, with a few knobs on. This means that we get a mediaeval cathedral looking like it did when it was conceived and built (with an extra spire and a few other things). The colours are amazing. Elderly churches, mosques and temples (int al) have a habit of losing their original colours and "feel" across the centuries. They change - age. Stone walls age and thanks to modern pollution darken. Pigments age, disperse and peel off. Notre Dame has been restored. Not to how it was in 2018, prior the fire ... but to how it was intended when built, with a bit of sympathetic interpretation. Well done!
- nntwozz 2y agoShip of Theseus comes to mind.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- highcountess 2y agoThat is not really applicable here. The cathedral itself was never really destroyed even though the Christian rejectors’ mob ransacked it in the “French” Revolution and the latest fire also did not really cause structural damage. It is also still a functioning Christian church with services.
- akerl_ 2y agoThe ship of Theseus was never really destroyed either. It was a functional ship with services.
- anon291 2y agoI mean it's a living church. The entire thing can be rebuilt and it will still be the real Notre Dame de Paris. It'd have to stop being used for the original function. Similar to how the California missions that are still parishes will continue to be complete. The ones that are museums will deteriorate. The beauty of a building is more than just its physical materials but also those things for which it was built and those people who built it
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoOne of the most spiritual moments of my life was entering Notre Dame, and I was not expecting it at all, wasn't really excited to go there, and am not really religious. Honestly I expected Stonehenge to be more impactful but Notre Dame is a way more worthy visit.
- YZF 2y agoI was more awed by Stonehenge than Notre Dame. There's just something mystical about it and it's also much more ancient. Notre Dame was another cool cathedral. It's famous but Europe has many. Either way sounds like an amazing rebuilding effort with many great passionate craftsman working on it. It goes to show that when we want to we can get stuff done. It's like a hackathon in a big company. Let's take from that and do more great things.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago>It goes to show that when we want to we can get stuff done. I have read the EULA. * Terms and conditions may apply. * Not available in all regions.
- throwup238 2y agoI sort of feel the same way about Stone Henge and I think it’s an exposure thing. It was maybe the tenth or so stop on my tour of ancient megaliths and after Gobekli Tepe, Easter Island, Avebury, the Baalbek stones, etc it just didn’t feel as special.
- csomar 2y agoI have the same view. Notre Dame just feels like a big regular church. The Cathedral of Cologne, on the other hand, is just something mesmerizing to me. It's like it belongs to another world/dimension and yet somehow fits with the gloomy sky of Germany.
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- rosmax_1337 2y agoI saw a picture of the insides on another site, it looked like a Disney castle with the stone polished to look almost white. Why not just restore it to look like before the accident?
- netsharc 2y agoWhy shouldn't restoring it to "just like new" not be allowed? This reviewer says entering it now is like the medieval builders had just finished it, it's almost like time travel: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/dec/06/notre-dame https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/dec/06/notre-d...
- rosmax_1337 2y agoI have complete trust in The Guardian to publish incorrect opinions on this matter. The Notre Dame is a historical building. It's not meant to look like "new".
- scientist4397 2y agoThat’s the purpose of a restoration, like la gallerie des glasses à Versailles or Le Louvre and many other monuments in France. The same applies to paintings
- serf 2y agomedieval builders would have relied on the use of flame and natural light. I think it all looks great with the exception of white-spectrum LEDs as far as the eye can see; the natural lighting of the past Notre Dame during early morning was special -- maybe it still is , but the white LEDs everywhere make it look 'clinical' to me.
- scientist4397 2y agoNot sure but I think these lights are temporary the time for the ceremony, I would be very surprised they keep using them while other French cathedrals don’t.
- bdndndndbve 2y agoSuch a sign of the world we live in that restoring a old building raises a billion dollars, but we somehow can't afford to house people who are freezing to death in the streets.
- ks2048 2y agoThe obvious compromise is build lots of gothic cathedrals for the homeless around the world.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoIf a billion dollars was all it took to solve homelessness, it would have been solved a long time ago. France spends tens of billions on it annually and as you noted, it's far from solved.
- paxys 2y agoHeck a single city (San Francisco) spends over a billion dollars annually on homelessness, and the problem just gets worse every year.
- greatgib 2y agoWhat I really would like to understand is what Musk was doing there? No relation with France or Notre Dame, supposed to be kind of an agnostic and not a "fervent catholic". And why he took the spot of anyone else that could be a fervent catholic just by being rich...
- netsharc 2y ago[flagged]
- paxys 2y agoHe spent $250M to elect Trump so now gets to be in the inner circle and travel with him, simple as that.
- breadwinner 2y agoIt's more than just traveling with him... he or his representatives are interviewing and hiring key government officials. (See link below.) Basically Musk is running the US government like it is another Musk company. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/06/us/politics/trump-elon-musk-silicon-valley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/06/us/politics/trump-elon-mu...
- Sabinus 2y agoBut remember, the same conspiracists who love Trump will decry politically active billionaires like George Soros for decades but if it's a Right Wing Billionaire actually paying for positions that is cool and normal.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ladyinthelake 2y ago[flagged]
- Dalewyn 2y ago
- Zebfross 2y agoWe were very lucky to see Notre Dame before it burned. So glad it’s been restored.
- henearkr 2y agoAnd they rebuilt it with all the lead that posed problem when it burned. Lesson not learned. Go figure.
- Sabinus 2y agohttps://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241205-how-lead-exposure-became-notre-dame-fire-toxic-legacy https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20241205-how-lead-exposur... I was very surprised to learn this is indeed true. "As the flames engulfed the cathedral, a whopping 400 tonnes of lead from the roof and spire went up in smoke, according to French authorities." "The decision to rebuild the spire and roof of Notre-Dame exactly as they had been in the 19th century by covering them in lead deepened the anger already felt by the members of Notre-Dame Lead and raised the eyebrows of politicians, non-profits and local residents. To justify the decision, the institution in charge of restoring the cathedral, Rebuilding Notre-Dame de Paris, ruled out any danger of direct exposure to the substance. “Covering the roof structures of the nave, the choir and two arms of the transept with lead does not expose any member of the public to lead, as they are located some forty metres from the ground and are inaccessible,” the institution told French daily newspaper La Croix in a December 2023 article, assuring it was taking the matter “very seriously”."
- canucker2016 2y agoLater in that article: “But Notre-Dame was not the only location to be affected,” Toullier pointed out. “Lead levels were very high all around the cathedral, on metro platforms, in bookshops on the Place Saint-Michel and even in surrounding schools.” At the end of summer 2019, Notre-Dame Lead reported levels of up to 123,000 μg/m², which represented 25 times the "standard" threshold of 5,000 µg/m² set by the regional health authority ARS, at the Place Saint-Michel, a 10-minute walk from the cathedral. “Yet no significant clean-up operation was carried out. It was as if the problem didn’t exist,” Toullier lamented. “But what about run-off water from the roof, which will be laden with lead?” asked Thébaud-Mony. In a notice published in January 2021, the French High Council for Public Health estimated that “the roof of Notre-Dame alone … would emit around 21kg of lead per year (about two tonnes per century) in run-off water”. “Lead could have been replaced by another substance like zinc or copper,” said Thébaud-Mony. “When alternatives exist, why choose lead and risk human health?” This was the case for the Chartres cathedral, destroyed by a fire in 1836. The original structure had lead roofing, which was replaced by copper when it was rebuilt. Though perceived as less stable, copper is significantly less toxic.
- unit149 2y agoUnlike the Mycenaean Lion's Gate, constructed with stone, using technical dry-stone masonry, Notre Dame was susceptible to sabotage. Post-2019 conflagration, reconstructing its arches, colonnades, spires, and stained glass windows - much of which survived high temperatures is a testament to Gothic architecture. In the Bronze Age, temples, remnants of sacrificial tombs dedicated to resurgent sacrificial rites in satiating Baal, still stand in the outskirts of Jerusalem. Depending on the materials, stone structures will whether incineration, even retaining frescoes prefiguring Christ.
- ggm 2y agoI have very fond memories of a vrml model with textured surfaces distributed as an .exe for unreal engine. Flights through the inferior and up into the vaults. I still have the exe but it seems to be very fussy about running and I haven't managed to make a virtual Windows it will tolerate. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/throwback-thursday-vr-notre-dame-cathedral-vic-deleon https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/throwback-thursday-vr-notre-d...
- DiscourseFan 2y agoI had the privilege of seeing the old Notre Dame right before it burned. It was very cool, but the new one looks like an obsessional desire to remain true to the old form. At one point there was talk of Gehry redesigning it: that would've been interesting! Because when the Notre Dame was rebuilt last, it reflected the architectural limits of its time, the height of the medieval ability and imagination. It is strange to simply replicate that today, when we could do so much more, when the Sagrada Familia, for instance, represents with more force the modern condition.
- aubanel 2y agoWhy would you want Notre Dame to represent modern condition ? I'm very happy it was not the way you suggest, because that would have been a high risk of getting a ugly/huge/provocative addition by a modern fame-craving architect, à la Le Corbusier or Jean Nouvel. This is a 1000 years old church that has hosted France's history, not a company office in Manhattan.
- kmlx 2y agoan argument could be made that this was a once in a few generations chance to do something different, or at least change/add to the existing design. another argument is that the building saw many changes from ~1180 to today, so change was actually part of the history of the building.
- wqaatwt 2y ago> to do something different Entirely just to do something different? Or for any actual reason? I mean things like: https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/france-notre-dame-green-scli-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/france-notre-dame-gree... are just outright plain ugly due to many reasons and this is one of the nicer looking alternative proposals that I could find.
- DiscourseFan 2y agoIf there's one reason the French can't compete in the modern economy its because they are so painfully conservative in their culture. Elon Musk might be a cook with reactionary tendencies but he is a far more imaginary cook than anything the French can come up with. Did it really all end in 1848?
- RadiozRadioz 2y agoWow that's great! I'll be totally honest, I completely forgot that fire happened until now. It was really big news and at the time I thought it would be the defining moment of 2019, then COVID happened and I pretty much forgot anything else that had happened that year.
- nikolay 2y agoThis modernization ruined it. I've seen it in 2000, I have no interest to see this "restoration".
- scientist4397 2y agoFrench monuments get restored all the time that’s how we keep our patrimoine . And in this case, we can’t speak about modernisation…
- nikolay 2y agoAgain, I have no interest - just like I have no interest in visiting Disneyland.
- mocamoca 2y agoI'm french. Live in Paris. I do not understand the excitement the world has for Notre Dame. Question for you, reader: what does the fire and/or the rebuild means to you? Why do you care?
- dmoo 2y agoI visited Notre Dame the first time I was in Paris, stood in the queue, climbed the stairs and took the photos everyone takes and have positive associations of the trip. The age, location and the view all help make nice memories that I guess many visitors feel. Victor Hugo & Disney probably add to that for others.
- daghamm 2y agoIf you are in Paris, there are probably 10 other places with more historical relevance. Notre Dame got to hold the French record for number of selfie sticks per m^2.
- ghaff 2y agoFor a lot of cultural/literary reasons, I think it's just iconic in a way that many other (at least equally beautiful) cathedrals--that most people probably couldn't even name, even the ones in Paris--are not.
- snakeyjake 2y agoI consider it to be a more recent (but still very old) entry in a category of human constructions that also includes the Parthenon, the Colosseum, the Taj Mahal, Angkor Wat, Machu Picchu, and Stonehenge.
- ladyinthelake 2y ago[flagged]
- prewett 2y agoI'm guessing it's because of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame", which if I recall correctly, Victor Hugo wrote to (successfully) stimulate desire to repair/restore the cathedral around 1800. For me, personally, I think that Gothic architecture is the height of beauty, especially the interior. Notre Dame is one of the first examples, and was built quickly enough to have a consistent architecture (also Chartres and Amiens). Many Gothic cathedrals took 100 years to build and you can see variations in the architectural style in the different pieces which lessons the beauty somewhat. I also like the French circular apse rather than the English square apse (although that does allow for a gorgeous, huge window). I also think beauty is important, especially in buildings, and Notre Dame is just a great example. It's beautiful inside and out. I've even spent quite a long time just enjoying the beauty of the back side.
- sneak 2y agoReminder: the original burned down because of cigarette smoking.
- scientist4397 2y agoStill the original one… 80% were saved from the fire
- zawaideh 2y agoMeanwhile Israel is destroying churches and mosques much older than notre dame and the world shrugs..
- hilbert42 2y agoIt's just so great to know Notre Dame been restored successfully. Decades ago I took a tour into roof/rafters and I took many photographs because I was interested in the woodworking and construction. I'd dearly love to do that tour again and compare the old with the new.