4 ms·

Advertising is fundamentally corrosive to society and should be outlawed with few and carefully tailored exceptions. Any business models that consequently fail,

Advertising is fundamentally corrosive to society and should be outlawed with few and carefully tailored exceptions. Any business models that consequently fail, fail because their externalities to collective society are now priced in.

bogwog 2y ago
I hate the modern advertising ecosystem, but ads themselves are not evil. We're just in a place where there is no limit to the what/when/where/how many. Without advertising, it would be really difficult to run a business. Back when Google was great, they kind of acted as an advertising police on the entire internet, keeping ads unobtrusive and negatively ranking sites with bad user experiences. That system worked pretty well back in the day (although definitely not perfect), and I think it gives a good model to start from if we as a society ever decide to try and fix this hellscape we're living in.
- godshatter 2y ago
  In my view, the ads themselves are only slightly evil since they are designed to influence you subtly (well, sometimes subtly) into paying for something you probably don't want. Not a big deal, I have shields in place for that mentally. I wouldn't hate them so much if they didn't try to track you around the web and didn't sell your info to anyone with some loose change in their pockets. I never hated ads when we had full-page ads in magazines and you had to skip multiple pages of ads to get to the actual articles. But selling my data makes them too much money, so I do my best to never have them load on the internet.
- account42 2y ago
  > Without advertising, it would be really difficult to run a business. It's difficult to run a business without advertising in a world full of advertising. If others can get to your customers before they find you then yes that's a problem. But all you get from paying to advertise is to get back to where you would have been without ads (assuming your competitors spend a similar amount).
Aerroon 2y ago
You will just get other kinds of advertisement. Ads that are technically not ads. Things like product placements, free promotions, word of mouth campaigns etc.
- 93po 2y ago
  we already have laws that make it illegal to accept money for certain circumstances, e.g. sex, bribery, extortion. Just make it illegal to accept money to promote products. I say this not because I think it's illegal but rather to challenge the status quo - i don't think there's a reason we couldn't do this other than humans being fragile and inflexible
- wat10000 2y ago
  Good.
- tossandthrow 2y ago
  These are ads and in many jurisdictions Also treated like ads. Weird that This is not the case in the US?
  - Aerroon 2y ago
    They aren't all ads, because the situation gets really muddy. If a website talks about an upcoming movie is that an ad? What if they were shown the movie before its release?
    - blitzar 2y ago
      Reviews are ads. Thats why these people call themselves "influencers".
      - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
        Roger Ebert will be turning in his grave.
    - Timwi 2y ago
refulgentis 2y ago
> Advertising is fundamentally corrosive to society Interesting, why?
- Sammi 2y ago
  Because they want to make you do stuff that is not in your best interest. They want to create a need that you don't actually have, and they do so by applying psychological pressure. They are a festival of fomo. They're pollution for your mind and distort your sense of reality. In a knowledge economy your attention is your highest commodity, and ads want to take all of it. One of the strongest rules I have for my household is that my children don't see any ads. I pay for Netflix, Youtube, and Spotify and use adblockers on all devices. And my tv is not connected to anything that can deliver flow tv - the biggest mindrot of all.
  - XCSme 2y ago
    How else do you find out about new stuff, or recommendations, or things you never considered before? How do you find out about new movies, concerts, etc.? Most customers don't know themselves that a solution to their problem (which they might not even notice) exists. Manipulative ads are bad, yes. But ads that expand your knowledge of what's available in the world are good in my opinion.
    - Sammi 2y ago
      I wanted to know about headphones that have high sound quality yesterday and you know what I did to find out? I googled it. I found out about ChatGPT and became a paying subscriber in january 2023, because it was all over hckrnews, youtube, twitter and tech media in general. New stuff and recommendations are everywhere. They are even a form of entertainment themselves. I watch several tech channels on youtube just to see what cool new stuff there is. There are channels and websites for movies, books, home renovation, hobbies and anything really if you want to know more. No ads needed.
      - XCSme 2y ago
Timwi 2y ago
There's only one “carefully tailored” exception that I approve of, and that's when it's solicited. Ads should show if and only if the user asked for them. There are plenty of people who intentionally opt out of ad blockers to support their favorite websites, or who enjoy browsing ads and shopping. There's a reason ad-only TV channels (24-hour infomercial stuff) are viable despite being able to be turned off at will, and plenty of people subscribe to product-promotion magazines (catalogues). I'm sure there are websites for those interests, too. What should be outlawed is mixing unsolicited content into solicited. If I solicit a video on black holes, or a blog article on Python, it should not be allowed to interrupt it with a dishonest, manipulative appraisal of some VPN service. That's immoral and disgusting.

bogwog 2y ago

I hate the modern advertising ecosystem, but ads themselves are not evil. We're just in a place where there is no limit to the what/when/where/how many. Without advertising, it would be really difficult to run a business. Back when Google was great, they kind of acted as an advertising police on the entire internet, keeping ads unobtrusive and negatively ranking sites with bad user experiences. That system worked pretty well back in the day (although definitely not perfect), and I think it gives a good model to start from if we as a society ever decide to try and fix this hellscape we're living in.

godshatter 2y ago
In my view, the ads themselves are only slightly evil since they are designed to influence you subtly (well, sometimes subtly) into paying for something you probably don't want. Not a big deal, I have shields in place for that mentally. I wouldn't hate them so much if they didn't try to track you around the web and didn't sell your info to anyone with some loose change in their pockets. I never hated ads when we had full-page ads in magazines and you had to skip multiple pages of ads to get to the actual articles. But selling my data makes them too much money, so I do my best to never have them load on the internet.
account42 2y ago
> Without advertising, it would be really difficult to run a business. It's difficult to run a business without advertising in a world full of advertising. If others can get to your customers before they find you then yes that's a problem. But all you get from paying to advertise is to get back to where you would have been without ads (assuming your competitors spend a similar amount).

Aerroon 2y ago

You will just get other kinds of advertisement. Ads that are technically not ads. Things like product placements, free promotions, word of mouth campaigns etc.

93po 2y ago
we already have laws that make it illegal to accept money for certain circumstances, e.g. sex, bribery, extortion. Just make it illegal to accept money to promote products. I say this not because I think it's illegal but rather to challenge the status quo - i don't think there's a reason we couldn't do this other than humans being fragile and inflexible
wat10000 2y ago
Good.
tossandthrow 2y ago
These are ads and in many jurisdictions Also treated like ads. Weird that This is not the case in the US?
- Aerroon 2y ago
  They aren't all ads, because the situation gets really muddy. If a website talks about an upcoming movie is that an ad? What if they were shown the movie before its release?
  - blitzar 2y ago
    Reviews are ads. Thats why these people call themselves "influencers".
    - oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
      Roger Ebert will be turning in his grave.
  - Timwi 2y ago

refulgentis 2y ago

> Advertising is fundamentally corrosive to society Interesting, why?

Sammi 2y ago
Because they want to make you do stuff that is not in your best interest. They want to create a need that you don't actually have, and they do so by applying psychological pressure. They are a festival of fomo. They're pollution for your mind and distort your sense of reality. In a knowledge economy your attention is your highest commodity, and ads want to take all of it. One of the strongest rules I have for my household is that my children don't see any ads. I pay for Netflix, Youtube, and Spotify and use adblockers on all devices. And my tv is not connected to anything that can deliver flow tv - the biggest mindrot of all.
- XCSme 2y ago
  How else do you find out about new stuff, or recommendations, or things you never considered before? How do you find out about new movies, concerts, etc.? Most customers don't know themselves that a solution to their problem (which they might not even notice) exists. Manipulative ads are bad, yes. But ads that expand your knowledge of what's available in the world are good in my opinion.
  - Sammi 2y ago
    I wanted to know about headphones that have high sound quality yesterday and you know what I did to find out? I googled it. I found out about ChatGPT and became a paying subscriber in january 2023, because it was all over hckrnews, youtube, twitter and tech media in general. New stuff and recommendations are everywhere. They are even a form of entertainment themselves. I watch several tech channels on youtube just to see what cool new stuff there is. There are channels and websites for movies, books, home renovation, hobbies and anything really if you want to know more. No ads needed.
    - XCSme 2y ago

Timwi 2y ago

There's only one “carefully tailored” exception that I approve of, and that's when it's solicited. Ads should show if and only if the user asked for them. There are plenty of people who intentionally opt out of ad blockers to support their favorite websites, or who enjoy browsing ads and shopping. There's a reason ad-only TV channels (24-hour infomercial stuff) are viable despite being able to be turned off at will, and plenty of people subscribe to product-promotion magazines (catalogues). I'm sure there are websites for those interests, too. What should be outlawed is mixing unsolicited content into solicited. If I solicit a video on black holes, or a blog article on Python, it should not be allowed to interrupt it with a dishonest, manipulative appraisal of some VPN service. That's immoral and disgusting.