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The problem is that OpenAI don't really have the enterprise market at all. Their APIs are closer in that many companies are using them to power features in othe
by danpalmer 2y ago
The problem is that OpenAI don't really have the enterprise market at all. Their APIs are closer in that many companies are using them to power features in other software, primarily Microsoft, but they're not the ones providing end user value to enterprises with APIs.
As for ChatGPT, it's a consumer tool, not an enterprise tool. It's not really integrated into an enterprises' existing toolset, it's not integrated into their authentication, it's not integrated into their internal permissions model, the IT department can't enforce any policies on how it's used. In almost all ways it doesn't look like enterprise IT.
- apugoneappu 2y agoChatGPT does have an enterprise version. I've seen the enterprise version with a top-5 consulting company, and it answers from their global knowledgebase, cites references, and doesn't train on their data.
- echelon 2y agoI assume top-5 consulting companies are buying to be on the bandwagon, but are the rank and file using it?
- thomasmarcelis 2y agoYes, daily. It's extremely useful, superior to internal search while combining the internal knowledge base with ChatGPT's
- HDThoreaun 2y agoIn my experience consultants are using an absolute ton of chatGPT
- dartos 2y agoYMMV wrt your experience and luck. I’m a pretty experienced developer and I struggle to get any useful information out of LLMs for any non-trivial task. At my job (at an LLM-based search company) our CTO uses it on occasion (I can tell by the contortions in his AI code that isn’t present in his handwritten code. I rarely need to fix the former) And I think our interns used it for a demo one week, but I don’t think it’s very common at my company.
- stanford_labrat 2y agoI recently (in the last month) asked ChatGPT to cite its sources for some scientific data. It gave me completely made up, entirely fabricated citations for academic papers that did not exist.
- yuvalr1 2y agoDid the model search the internet? The behavior you're describing sounds like an older model behavior. When I ask for links to references these days, it searches the internet the gives me links to real papers that are often actually relevant and helpful.
- stanford_labrat 2y agoI don’t recall that it ever mentioned if it did or not. I don’t have the search on hand but from my browser history I did the prompt engineering on 11/18 (which perhaps there is a new model since then?). I actually repeated the prompt just now and it actually gave me the correct, opposite response. For those curious, I asked ChatGPT what turned on a gene, and it said Protein X turns on Gene Y as per -fake citation-. Asking today if Protein X turns on Gene Y ChatGPT said there is no evidence, and showed 2 real citations of factors that may turn on Gene Y. Pretty impressed!
- alphan0n 2y agoShare a link to the conversation.
- madaxe_again 2y agoWhat a bizarre thing to request. Do you go around accusing everyone of lying?
- alphan0n 2y agoSo sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities by calling out a blatant lie from someone completely unrelated to yourself. Pretty bizarre behavior in itself to do so.
- manmal 2y agoDo you mean Azure OpenAI? That would be a Microsoft product.
- osigurdson 2y ago>> internal permissions model This isn't that big of a deal any more. A company just needs to add the application to Azure AD (now called Entra for some reason).
- cess11 2y agoDecision making in enterprise procurement is more about whether it makes the corporation money and whether there is immediate and effective support when it stops making money.
- magic_hamster 2y agoOpenAI's enterprise access is probably mostly happening through Azure. Azure has AI Services with access to OpenAI.
- outside415 2y agohave used it at 2 different enterprises internally, the issue is price more than anything. enterprises definitely do want to self host, but for frontier tech they want frontier models for solving complicated unsolved problems or building efficiencies in complicated workflows. one company had to rip it out for a time due to price, I no longer work there anymore though so can't speak on if it was reintegrated.
- gorgoiler 2y agoIs their valuation proposition self fulfilling: the more people pipe their queries to OpenAI, the more training data they have to get better?
- j45 2y agoAlso, a replacement for search
- almog 2y agoNot sure how valuation come into play here but I doubt enterprise clients would agree to have their queries used for training.
- danpalmer 2y agoYeah it's a fairly standard clause in the business paid versions of SaaS products that your data isn't used to train the model. The whole thing you're selling is per-company isolation so you don't want to go back on that. Whether your data is used for training or not is an approximation of whether you're using a tool for commercial applications, so a pretty good way to price discriminate.
- throwaway314155 2y agoI don't think user submitted question/answer is as useful for training as you (and many others) think. It's not useless, but it's certainly not some goldmine either considering how noisy it is (from the users) and how synthetic it is (the responses). Further, while I wouldn't put it past them to use user data in that way, there's certainly a PR/controversy cost to doing so, even if it's outlined in their ToS.
- informal007 2y agoIn enterprise, there will be long content or document be poured into ChatGPT if there isn't policy limitation from company, which can be a meaning training data. At least, there's possibility these content can be seen by staff in OpenAI as bad case, there's still existing privacy concerns.
- CreRecombinase 2y agoThis is what's so brilliant about the Microsoft "partnership". OpenAI gets the Microsoft enterprise legitimacy, meanwhile Microsoft can build interfaces on top of ChatGPT that they can swap out later for whatever they want when it suits them
- danpalmer 2y agoI think this is good for Microsoft, but less good for OpenAI. Microsoft owns the customer relationship, owns the product experience, and in many ways owns the productionisation of a model into a useful feature. They also happen to own the datacenter side as well. Because Microsoft is the whole wrapper around OpenAI, they can also negotiate. If they think they can get a better price from Anthropic, Google (in theory), or their own internally created models, then they can pressure OpenAI to reduce prices. OpenAI doesn't get Microsoft's enterprise legitimacy, Microsoft keep that. OpenAI just gets preferential treatment as a supplier. On the way up the hype curve it's the folks selling shovels that make all the money, but in a market of mature productionisation at scale, it's those closest to customers who make the money.
- theptip 2y ago$10B of compute credits on a capped profit deal that they can break as soon as they get AGI (i.e. the $10T invention) seems pretty favorable to OpenAI.
- informal007 2y agoThis remind me why enterprise don't integrated OpenAI product into existing toolset, trust is root reason. It's hard to provide trust to OpenAI that they won't steal data of enterprise to train next model in a market where content is the most valuable element, compared office, cloud database, etc.
- jey 2y agoThis is what the Azure OpenAI offering is supposed to solve, right?
- dartos 2y agoSort of? Then there’s trust that it won’t make up information. It probably won’t be used for any HR/legal work for fear of false info being generated.
- mycall 2y agoCorrect
- croes 2y agoWhy should MS be more trustworthy them OpenAI? MS failed their customers more than once.
- bushbaba 2y agoBecause idk, windows, AD, office, and so many more Microsoft products could already betray that customer trust but don’t.
- croes 2y agoThey betrayed their customers in the Storm-0558 attack. They didn't disclose the full scale and charged the customers for the advanced logging needed for detections. Not to mention that they abolished QA and outsourced it to the customer.
- 2y ago
- dartharva 2y ago> As for ChatGPT, it's a consumer tool, not an enterprise tool. It's not really integrated into an enterprises' existing toolset, it's not integrated into their authentication, it's not integrated into their internal permissions model, the IT department can't enforce any policies on how it's used. In almost all ways it doesn't look like enterprise IT. What according to you is the bare minimum of what it will take for it to be an enterprise tool?
- be_erik 2y agoSSO and enforceable privacy and IP protections would be a start. RBAC, queues, caching results, and workflow management would open a lot of doors very quickly.
- matteocontrini 2y agoIt seems that ChatGPT Enterprise already has many of these: https://openai.com/enterprise-privacy/ https://openai.com/enterprise-privacy/
- lolive 2y agoWon’t name my company, but we rely on Palantir Foundry for our data lake. And the only thing everybody wants [including Palantir itself] is to deploy at scale AI capabilities tied properly to the rest of the toolset/datasets. The issues at the moment are a mix of IP on the data, insurance on the security of private clouds infrastructures, deals between Amazon and Microsoft/OpenAI for the proper integration of ChatGPT on AWS, all these kind of things. But discarding the enterprise needs is in my opinion a [very] wrong assumption.
- everybodyknows 2y agoIs the Foundry business the reason for the run up of PLTR this year? https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/PLTR https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/PLTR
- lolive 2y agoVery personal feeling, but without a datalake organized the way Foundry is organized, I don’t see how you can manage [cold] data at scale in a company [both in term of size, flexibility, semantics or R&D]. Given the fact that IT services in big companies WILL fail to build and maintain such a horribly complex stack, the walled garden nature of the Foundry stack is not so stupid. But all that is the technical part of things. Markets do not bless products. They bless revenues. And from that perspective, I have NO CLUE.
- benterix 2y agoThat's why Microsoft included OpenAI access in Azure. However, their current offering is quite immature so companies are using several prices of infra to make it usable (for rate limiting, better authentication etc.).
- Rastonbury 2y agoOAI through their API probably does but I do agree that ChatGPT is not really Enterprise product.For the company the API is the platform play, their enterprise customers are going to be the likes of MSFT, salesforce, zendesk or say Apple to power Siri, these are the ones doing the heavy lifting of selling and making an LLM product that provides value to their enterprise customers. A bit like stripe/AWS. Whether OAI can form a durable platform (vs their competitors or inhouse LLM) is the question here or whether they can offer models at a cost that justifies the upsell of AI features their customers offer