7 ms·

UK lawmakers vote in support of assisted dying

65 points by mikhael 2y ago

hermitcrab 2y ago
If I am in horrendous and incurable pain, I hope I have the option to calmly and painlessly end my own life without having to worry about my loved ones going to prison for it.
bmsleight_ 2y ago
First reading, there are lots of stage before the bill is passed. It look like Parliament, via private members bill working at its best. Lots of debate, lots of people listening to the debate and then voting.
- ChocolateGod 2y ago
  I watched the debate as it was happening on Sky News and it seemed to be one the most respectful debates in a long time when it comes to a divisive issue (cough cough Brexit).
- camjw 2y ago
  This was the second reading fyi.
fidotron 2y ago
I believe ultimately we will head towards a situation where anyone can request it at any time for any reason. Gating with health conditions is just to ease the transition. That said, the great problem in countries with tax funded social and health services is the government have a distinct interest in persuading certain people to jump, and this is a serious moral hazard as some of the Canadian experience has demonstrated. Today though the UK has the opposite problem, which is an enormous private residential “care” system keeping huge numbers of unwilling near vegetables wired up until they eventually die, transferring as much of the family money to the “carers” as possible. They have an awful lot to lose from this too, so I expect the fight to be a lot nastier from here on.
- grecy 2y ago
  > as some of the Canadian experience has demonstrated I live in Canada, and I keep hearing this kind of stuff brought up by Americans. What, exactly, is "the Canadian experience"? It would be best if your sources are not American media outlets intended for American audiences they are looking to manipulate.
  - bondarchuk 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
    - grecy 2y ago
      My Mum died slowly from lung cancer over almost three years. It spread to basically every organ in her body, she was taking so much chemo they eventually said they had to stop or the chemo would kill her before the cancer would. The intense pain, humiliation and knowing it was a certain death sentence hung over her every single minute of every single day. My family would have given anything to have been allowed access to assisted suicide by the end. And I guarantee you would too. Anyone that says otherwise simply hasn't lived it.
      - enaaem 2y ago
        Yeah dying sucks. Too many people have this delusion that their death will happen peacefully in their sleep. There is no guarantee whatsoever. Good chance it will be awful. If needed, I want to have the option for myself to get over with it swiftly.
        vidarh 2y ago
        I saw both my grandmothers waste away waste away with Alzheimer's, and one of the worst parts was seeing the effect on my grandfather's. One of them spent a decade mostly sitting in a chair next to his wife who no longer spoke or recognized anyone...
tlonny 2y ago
For some terminal patients, there are types of pain that no amount of morphine or money can fix. I'm thankful to know that when its my time to go, I'll have the choice to skip enduring several days of torture should I wish.
stainablesteel 2y ago
progress should mean learning from the successes of other countries, not the disasters
throwrug 2y ago
Out of curiosity why do people need permission or help from their government for this? Is it related to life insurance? Or is it that in some cases people can not get to the hardware store for a mask, hose, some duct tape and a tank of nitrogen? Or is it a business thing meaning someone is trying to corner the market on those crazy expensive suicide pods?
- agd 2y ago
  I think this is to do with the ‘assisted’ component. I.e. When people need help from others to die. If the law didn’t cover this, then people who provided assistance would be open to criminal prosecution.
  - throwrug 2y ago
    That makes sense. If that is the case it creates yet another question for me. If someone sends for a driver to go shop and pick up the aforementioned items are they culpable?
    - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
      > If someone sends for a driver to go shop and pick up the aforementioned items are they culpable? That greatly depends on the jurisdiction. In general though the issue here is that you don't want to die by shooting yourself, but you want to die by taking a pill. And the issue really is that nobody is going to sell this stuff to you unless they know they cannot be charged for it. Assisted suicide is legal in Austria for a few years and the main thing that it has changed is the availability of humane ways of dying.
- mrob 2y ago
  I don't want to die. However, I can imagine many scenarios that are worse than death. In many of them I am too incapacitated to arrange my own painless suicide. Allowing third parties to help in these circumstances, with appropriate controls to ensure this freedom isn't abused, seems to me the least bad option.
- 2y ago
EncomLab 2y ago
It requires extreme naivete to believe that this will not rapidly shift from doctor assisted suicide to mandatory removal of medical benefits except "end of life care". The medical-insurance complex in the US cannot wait for this to happen.
- slt2021 2y ago
  in single-payer government funded healthcare systems (Canada UK), medically assisted suicide is ENORMOUS cost savings. imagine paying taxes all your life and hoping to get a good care in later stage of your life, and government just MAIDs you instead of providing care The current UK/CA social contract seems to be: you work for 45+ years and pay taxes, but when you get old and sick and need medical care, we will just MAID you and instead give away all your taxes to welfare recipients
  - EncomLab 2y ago
    In the US there will be share-holder lawsuits against insurance companies that do not enforce this strictly enough. It's just a return to a time when only the wealthy could receive medical care - this time it's just being marketed better.
    - nradov 2y ago
      You seem to be confused about how US medical insurance companies operate. First, the majority of terminal patients are on government Medicare or Medicaid health plans. Second, commercial insurers have their profits capped by a minimum 85% medical loss ratio so they have no direct financial incentive to restrict care or push plan members towards assisted suicide. Rather the opposite.
      - EncomLab 2y ago
        As if this legislation in the US would not entirely upend the current rules and regulations. That's exactly the issue - you can't say "well currently things are X, and introducing Y won't change anything" when Y does, in fact, change everything. A positive example of this was EMTALA in 1986 when the US gvt told hospitals "if you want to bill Medicare you have to provide ER treatment to everyone." That was a radical change to the way in which medical care had been provided in the US up to that point. Introducing any form of assisted suicide introduces many complex legal issues just around liability from a practice standpoint - to say nothing of the complexities of who determines what even constitutes legal authority for the decision itself.
thinkingemote 2y ago
It's easier to go down a slope than go up it. It's a tragedy. Most doctors, all disability organisations and charities, all hospices and elderly care organisations opposed this. A visit to the doctor should never even have the possibility of a conversation such as "have you considered dying? I can help". This was decided by people who are not old, not disabled, not vulnerable. Additionally, we have a case now where the national health service will in one section prevent ill people considering suicide and help them out of it but will in another section help those who are considering suicide and encourage them into it! It fundamentally changes the nature of what a health service is. The Samartians number is 116 123 The Samaritan's motto is "every life lost to suicide is a tragedy"
- bowsamic 2y ago
  The Samaritans. I remember a story about that in the bible, explains your conservative Christian views
  - thinkingemote 2y ago
    It's a charity. Its name derives from the biblical Parable of the Good Samaritan, although the organisation itself is not religious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans_(charity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans_(charity) Samaritans is a registered charity aimed at providing emotional support to anyone in emotional distress, struggling to cope or at risk of suicide throughout the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, often through its telephone helpline.
    - bowsamic 2y ago
      The quote and viewpoint you are expressing is based in conservative Christianity regardless
      - thinkingemote 2y ago
        What would a non-conservative Christian viewpoint on this subject be?
metabrew 2y ago
Many opponents to the bill have been very cagey about their reasons for opposing it, and eventually admit it's for nebulous "religious reasons". Personally I'd like the right to die with dignity if I were unfortunate enough to find myself facing horrible, imminent, certain death. I'm glad it passed and I hope it makes it into law.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Does the Bible say you shouldn't end your life if you're dying of something incurable and terribly painful?
  - technion 2y ago
    Regardless of what a bible says it is indeed the view of many religious people.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      They probably change their mind pretty quick if they witness a loved one go through endless pain for no reason. Some of them, I'd think. Others, I'm sure, would tell them how much wonderful the gates of heaven will look when they get there.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    Yes. Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another with the intention of killing yourself.
    - kranke155 2y ago
      Thats odd. Anyway seems like that is a possible reading but not all possible readings.
      - ImJamal 2y ago
e1g 2y ago
I was on the fence until a family member was diagnosed with inoperable glioblastoma. I would encourage anyone in opposition, or in doubt, to read about late stages of GBM, and imagine their mother or child going through that end, which is 100% certainly for everyone who got unlucky. There is no cure, and no known cause. This is not murder, it’s mercy - just imagine being in a soul crushing place of having to end the suffering and life of your parent or child, then being told it’s not possible.
- schnebbau 2y ago
  This is called the "I don't care until it happens to me" mindset.
  - aaomidi 2y ago
    Yeah I’m glad they care now to support this but what might help folks more is explaining what reflecting on this has helped with other opinions you may or may not have these days!
  - e1g 2y ago
    I had a position, then went through a life experience that changed my position. The alternative is to never change your view, or to early on build a strong view on everything you have zero experience with, such as hospice care or the nuance of every immigration rule.
    - clipsy 2y ago
      > The alternative is to never change your view No, I would say the alternative is to listen to and evaluate arguments and base your views on what you find to be convincing. The problem with the "I don't care until it happens to me" mindset is that they often flatly refuse to consider arguments until those arguments affect them personally; this isn't open-mindedness but rather closed-mindedness paired with a deeply self-centered world view.
- tgv 2y ago
  My mother died that way, after a fairly long and cautious consultation process, but through medical assistance. She had a cluster of health problems, and also suffered from mental problems caused by recurring memories caused by dementia. The other prognosis would have been: suffering in a hospice until her body would give up. Now she could die in peace, surrounded by her family. We didn't really know the extent of her suffering, but after the first injection, a strong sedative, she spoke her final words: "I have no pain. I have no pain." It's really good that it's possible.
slt2021 2y ago
Why Assisted Dying is only being pushed and promoted in White Christian countries? It is not allowed in Muslim countries and is explicitly banned in Israel. Orthodox Christian is not allowing MAID as well
- tim333 2y ago
  It's also legal in Colombia.
ouroboros1 2y ago
I am a nurse and work on a unit with quite a lot of the End of life patients. Including patients with MND and COPD which need careful management for breathlessness. I don't support this legislation. My opposition is based on the fact that enabling someone to have a peaceful death involves a interplay of numerous environmental social and biological factors. The new legislation will need to fit into this complex environment without disrupting the practices which have built up to manage EOL care. For example suffering for a patient will be significantly eased if the doctor explains clearly what is expected to happen and what the patient is likely to experience. A patient with COPD, might be afraid to experience breathlessness. But the medical team explain how it will work, the nurses introduce it gradually and the patient does not suffer. Its the interplay of the technology, the professionals, the biological process and, obviously the patient and the beliefs and uncertainty. Likewise a completely dependent MND patient will requite 16 full time nurses to provide for his needs. They might feel like a burden. Again its an interplay between the patients needs, symptoms and the professionals and technology we use to meet these needs. If we overlay on this situations the knowledge that the patient could simply take their own life, its not clear to me that this would alleviate suffering.
- snakeyjake 2y ago
  My grandmother, who I visited today, is a 93yo COPD patient. She can't breathe. She can't use the bathroom without help. She can't hardly move. She's hooked up to a nasal cannula 100% of the time. Albuterol breathing exercises 4x a day means she can't sleep more than six hours at a time because if she skips one, even on O2, she experiences suffocation. She coughs so badly that she has constant rib/spine fractures so she's on and off narcotic painkillers that only make life bearable in doses enough to turn her brain into mush. She wants to die. She's done. She won life. She's the last lady standing. Every single friend from her youth is gone. It's over. I've already told her that when I get into my 60s I am going to stockpile a cache of painkillers and when the time comes go out on my own terms. There is an exact and precise 0.0% chance that my family is going to cry out in the hallway for days/weeks while I shit/piss myself in bed and slowly drown to death as my organs fail. But it's too late for my grandmother because she waited until she was under the watchful eye of the skilled nursing facility nightmare. In my idealized world, there is no violence, no accidents, and all diseases have been cured except for the inevitable and unstoppable phenomenon of heart failure and 100% of ALL deaths are medically-assisted suicide, decided on by the individual once they reach the point where your heart can no longer support independent living but before you get to the Morphine downward spiral. I am a volunteer FF/EMT so I've seen my fair share of end of life patients in the last 25 years and apparently I am the only responsible adult in my family so I've handled the hospice phase for every member of my family for the last 20 years. It is incomprehensible to me that anyone who has any exposure to death whatsoever does not fully support a person's right to determine the time and manner of their death-- even if it comes with problems. The only reasons I can come up with for not supporting it are: a financial stake in prolonged expensive end-of-life care, the belief that the patients are too stupid to determine their fate, and/or trying to impose their personal religious beliefs on the masses.
blessede 2y ago
A couple of articles with more critical views, the first discusses how proponents of the law have been avoiding scrutiny ahead of the bill, and have been talking up safeguards that aren't actually in their proposal: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-not-be-kind-to-the-mps-who-backed-assisted-dying/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-not-be-kind... The second argues that this will disproportionately affect women, who already suffer more under domestic abuse including being killed by partners, predicting that this will be used similarly: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/25/assisted-dying-is-sexist-report-finds/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/25/assisted-dying-i... According to this report, the main charity that is pushing this, Death in Dignity, uses case studies from violent men who murdered their wives and has men working for them who have killed women.
tetnis 2y ago
the expected cost savings only increases as the age for assisted dying decreases in the limit, health care is abortion and euthanasia only. we all know that abortion prevents suffering of the mother and the child who will never experience it. euthanasia fixes the mistake of not aborting. we cannot suffer if we just dont live.

65 points by mikhael 2y ago

If I am in horrendous and incurable pain, I hope I have the option to calmly and painlessly end my own life without having to worry about my loved ones going to prison for it.

bmsleight_ 2y ago

First reading, there are lots of stage before the bill is passed. It look like Parliament, via private members bill working at its best. Lots of debate, lots of people listening to the debate and then voting.

ChocolateGod 2y ago
I watched the debate as it was happening on Sky News and it seemed to be one the most respectful debates in a long time when it comes to a divisive issue (cough cough Brexit).
camjw 2y ago
This was the second reading fyi.

fidotron 2y ago

I believe ultimately we will head towards a situation where anyone can request it at any time for any reason. Gating with health conditions is just to ease the transition. That said, the great problem in countries with tax funded social and health services is the government have a distinct interest in persuading certain people to jump, and this is a serious moral hazard as some of the Canadian experience has demonstrated. Today though the UK has the opposite problem, which is an enormous private residential “care” system keeping huge numbers of unwilling near vegetables wired up until they eventually die, transferring as much of the family money to the “carers” as possible. They have an awful lot to lose from this too, so I expect the fight to be a lot nastier from here on.

grecy 2y ago
> as some of the Canadian experience has demonstrated I live in Canada, and I keep hearing this kind of stuff brought up by Americans. What, exactly, is "the Canadian experience"? It would be best if your sources are not American media outlets intended for American audiences they are looking to manipulate.
- bondarchuk 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada
  - grecy 2y ago
    My Mum died slowly from lung cancer over almost three years. It spread to basically every organ in her body, she was taking so much chemo they eventually said they had to stop or the chemo would kill her before the cancer would. The intense pain, humiliation and knowing it was a certain death sentence hung over her every single minute of every single day. My family would have given anything to have been allowed access to assisted suicide by the end. And I guarantee you would too. Anyone that says otherwise simply hasn't lived it.
    - enaaem 2y ago
      Yeah dying sucks. Too many people have this delusion that their death will happen peacefully in their sleep. There is no guarantee whatsoever. Good chance it will be awful. If needed, I want to have the option for myself to get over with it swiftly.
      - vidarh 2y ago
        I saw both my grandmothers waste away waste away with Alzheimer's, and one of the worst parts was seeing the effect on my grandfather's. One of them spent a decade mostly sitting in a chair next to his wife who no longer spoke or recognized anyone...

tlonny 2y ago

For some terminal patients, there are types of pain that no amount of morphine or money can fix. I'm thankful to know that when its my time to go, I'll have the choice to skip enduring several days of torture should I wish.

stainablesteel 2y ago

progress should mean learning from the successes of other countries, not the disasters

throwrug 2y ago

Out of curiosity why do people need permission or help from their government for this? Is it related to life insurance? Or is it that in some cases people can not get to the hardware store for a mask, hose, some duct tape and a tank of nitrogen? Or is it a business thing meaning someone is trying to corner the market on those crazy expensive suicide pods?

agd 2y ago
I think this is to do with the ‘assisted’ component. I.e. When people need help from others to die. If the law didn’t cover this, then people who provided assistance would be open to criminal prosecution.
- throwrug 2y ago
  That makes sense. If that is the case it creates yet another question for me. If someone sends for a driver to go shop and pick up the aforementioned items are they culpable?
  - the_mitsuhiko 2y ago
    > If someone sends for a driver to go shop and pick up the aforementioned items are they culpable? That greatly depends on the jurisdiction. In general though the issue here is that you don't want to die by shooting yourself, but you want to die by taking a pill. And the issue really is that nobody is going to sell this stuff to you unless they know they cannot be charged for it. Assisted suicide is legal in Austria for a few years and the main thing that it has changed is the availability of humane ways of dying.
mrob 2y ago
I don't want to die. However, I can imagine many scenarios that are worse than death. In many of them I am too incapacitated to arrange my own painless suicide. Allowing third parties to help in these circumstances, with appropriate controls to ensure this freedom isn't abused, seems to me the least bad option.
2y ago

EncomLab 2y ago

It requires extreme naivete to believe that this will not rapidly shift from doctor assisted suicide to mandatory removal of medical benefits except "end of life care". The medical-insurance complex in the US cannot wait for this to happen.

slt2021 2y ago
in single-payer government funded healthcare systems (Canada UK), medically assisted suicide is ENORMOUS cost savings. imagine paying taxes all your life and hoping to get a good care in later stage of your life, and government just MAIDs you instead of providing care The current UK/CA social contract seems to be: you work for 45+ years and pay taxes, but when you get old and sick and need medical care, we will just MAID you and instead give away all your taxes to welfare recipients
- EncomLab 2y ago
  In the US there will be share-holder lawsuits against insurance companies that do not enforce this strictly enough. It's just a return to a time when only the wealthy could receive medical care - this time it's just being marketed better.
  - nradov 2y ago
    You seem to be confused about how US medical insurance companies operate. First, the majority of terminal patients are on government Medicare or Medicaid health plans. Second, commercial insurers have their profits capped by a minimum 85% medical loss ratio so they have no direct financial incentive to restrict care or push plan members towards assisted suicide. Rather the opposite.
    - EncomLab 2y ago
      As if this legislation in the US would not entirely upend the current rules and regulations. That's exactly the issue - you can't say "well currently things are X, and introducing Y won't change anything" when Y does, in fact, change everything. A positive example of this was EMTALA in 1986 when the US gvt told hospitals "if you want to bill Medicare you have to provide ER treatment to everyone." That was a radical change to the way in which medical care had been provided in the US up to that point. Introducing any form of assisted suicide introduces many complex legal issues just around liability from a practice standpoint - to say nothing of the complexities of who determines what even constitutes legal authority for the decision itself.

thinkingemote 2y ago

It's easier to go down a slope than go up it. It's a tragedy. Most doctors, all disability organisations and charities, all hospices and elderly care organisations opposed this. A visit to the doctor should never even have the possibility of a conversation such as "have you considered dying? I can help". This was decided by people who are not old, not disabled, not vulnerable. Additionally, we have a case now where the national health service will in one section prevent ill people considering suicide and help them out of it but will in another section help those who are considering suicide and encourage them into it! It fundamentally changes the nature of what a health service is. The Samartians number is 116 123 The Samaritan's motto is "every life lost to suicide is a tragedy"

bowsamic 2y ago
The Samaritans. I remember a story about that in the bible, explains your conservative Christian views
- thinkingemote 2y ago
  It's a charity. Its name derives from the biblical Parable of the Good Samaritan, although the organisation itself is not religious. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans_(charity) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritans_(charity) Samaritans is a registered charity aimed at providing emotional support to anyone in emotional distress, struggling to cope or at risk of suicide throughout the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, often through its telephone helpline.
  - bowsamic 2y ago
    The quote and viewpoint you are expressing is based in conservative Christianity regardless
    - thinkingemote 2y ago
      What would a non-conservative Christian viewpoint on this subject be?

metabrew 2y ago

Many opponents to the bill have been very cagey about their reasons for opposing it, and eventually admit it's for nebulous "religious reasons". Personally I'd like the right to die with dignity if I were unfortunate enough to find myself facing horrible, imminent, certain death. I'm glad it passed and I hope it makes it into law.

kranke155 2y ago
Does the Bible say you shouldn't end your life if you're dying of something incurable and terribly painful?
- technion 2y ago
  Regardless of what a bible says it is indeed the view of many religious people.
  - kranke155 2y ago
    They probably change their mind pretty quick if they witness a loved one go through endless pain for no reason. Some of them, I'd think. Others, I'm sure, would tell them how much wonderful the gates of heaven will look when they get there.
- ImJamal 2y ago
  Yes. Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another with the intention of killing yourself.
  - kranke155 2y ago
    Thats odd. Anyway seems like that is a possible reading but not all possible readings.
    - ImJamal 2y ago

e1g 2y ago

I was on the fence until a family member was diagnosed with inoperable glioblastoma. I would encourage anyone in opposition, or in doubt, to read about late stages of GBM, and imagine their mother or child going through that end, which is 100% certainly for everyone who got unlucky. There is no cure, and no known cause. This is not murder, it’s mercy - just imagine being in a soul crushing place of having to end the suffering and life of your parent or child, then being told it’s not possible.

schnebbau 2y ago
This is called the "I don't care until it happens to me" mindset.
- aaomidi 2y ago
  Yeah I’m glad they care now to support this but what might help folks more is explaining what reflecting on this has helped with other opinions you may or may not have these days!
- e1g 2y ago
  I had a position, then went through a life experience that changed my position. The alternative is to never change your view, or to early on build a strong view on everything you have zero experience with, such as hospice care or the nuance of every immigration rule.
  - clipsy 2y ago
    > The alternative is to never change your view No, I would say the alternative is to listen to and evaluate arguments and base your views on what you find to be convincing. The problem with the "I don't care until it happens to me" mindset is that they often flatly refuse to consider arguments until those arguments affect them personally; this isn't open-mindedness but rather closed-mindedness paired with a deeply self-centered world view.
tgv 2y ago
My mother died that way, after a fairly long and cautious consultation process, but through medical assistance. She had a cluster of health problems, and also suffered from mental problems caused by recurring memories caused by dementia. The other prognosis would have been: suffering in a hospice until her body would give up. Now she could die in peace, surrounded by her family. We didn't really know the extent of her suffering, but after the first injection, a strong sedative, she spoke her final words: "I have no pain. I have no pain." It's really good that it's possible.

slt2021 2y ago

Why Assisted Dying is only being pushed and promoted in White Christian countries? It is not allowed in Muslim countries and is explicitly banned in Israel. Orthodox Christian is not allowing MAID as well

tim333 2y ago
It's also legal in Colombia.

ouroboros1 2y ago

I am a nurse and work on a unit with quite a lot of the End of life patients. Including patients with MND and COPD which need careful management for breathlessness. I don't support this legislation. My opposition is based on the fact that enabling someone to have a peaceful death involves a interplay of numerous environmental social and biological factors. The new legislation will need to fit into this complex environment without disrupting the practices which have built up to manage EOL care. For example suffering for a patient will be significantly eased if the doctor explains clearly what is expected to happen and what the patient is likely to experience. A patient with COPD, might be afraid to experience breathlessness. But the medical team explain how it will work, the nurses introduce it gradually and the patient does not suffer. Its the interplay of the technology, the professionals, the biological process and, obviously the patient and the beliefs and uncertainty. Likewise a completely dependent MND patient will requite 16 full time nurses to provide for his needs. They might feel like a burden. Again its an interplay between the patients needs, symptoms and the professionals and technology we use to meet these needs. If we overlay on this situations the knowledge that the patient could simply take their own life, its not clear to me that this would alleviate suffering.

snakeyjake 2y ago
My grandmother, who I visited today, is a 93yo COPD patient. She can't breathe. She can't use the bathroom without help. She can't hardly move. She's hooked up to a nasal cannula 100% of the time. Albuterol breathing exercises 4x a day means she can't sleep more than six hours at a time because if she skips one, even on O2, she experiences suffocation. She coughs so badly that she has constant rib/spine fractures so she's on and off narcotic painkillers that only make life bearable in doses enough to turn her brain into mush. She wants to die. She's done. She won life. She's the last lady standing. Every single friend from her youth is gone. It's over. I've already told her that when I get into my 60s I am going to stockpile a cache of painkillers and when the time comes go out on my own terms. There is an exact and precise 0.0% chance that my family is going to cry out in the hallway for days/weeks while I shit/piss myself in bed and slowly drown to death as my organs fail. But it's too late for my grandmother because she waited until she was under the watchful eye of the skilled nursing facility nightmare. In my idealized world, there is no violence, no accidents, and all diseases have been cured except for the inevitable and unstoppable phenomenon of heart failure and 100% of ALL deaths are medically-assisted suicide, decided on by the individual once they reach the point where your heart can no longer support independent living but before you get to the Morphine downward spiral. I am a volunteer FF/EMT so I've seen my fair share of end of life patients in the last 25 years and apparently I am the only responsible adult in my family so I've handled the hospice phase for every member of my family for the last 20 years. It is incomprehensible to me that anyone who has any exposure to death whatsoever does not fully support a person's right to determine the time and manner of their death-- even if it comes with problems. The only reasons I can come up with for not supporting it are: a financial stake in prolonged expensive end-of-life care, the belief that the patients are too stupid to determine their fate, and/or trying to impose their personal religious beliefs on the masses.

blessede 2y ago

A couple of articles with more critical views, the first discusses how proponents of the law have been avoiding scrutiny ahead of the bill, and have been talking up safeguards that aren't actually in their proposal: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-not-be-kind-to-the-mps-who-backed-assisted-dying/ https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/history-will-not-be-kind... The second argues that this will disproportionately affect women, who already suffer more under domestic abuse including being killed by partners, predicting that this will be used similarly: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/25/assisted-dying-is-sexist-report-finds/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/25/assisted-dying-i... According to this report, the main charity that is pushing this, Death in Dignity, uses case studies from violent men who murdered their wives and has men working for them who have killed women.

tetnis 2y ago

the expected cost savings only increases as the age for assisted dying decreases in the limit, health care is abortion and euthanasia only. we all know that abortion prevents suffering of the mother and the child who will never experience it. euthanasia fixes the mistake of not aborting. we cannot suffer if we just dont live.