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I've seen a bit of confusion regarding this. First, it's 10% of Denmark's total land area, which is roughly equivalent to 15% of farmland area. Second, the conv

I've seen a bit of confusion regarding this. First, it's 10% of Denmark's total land area, which is roughly equivalent to 15% of farmland area. Second, the conversion of farmland area into nature and forests is mainly for improving water quality, as excess nitrogen from agriculture has essentially killed the rivers and coastal waters through oxygen depletion from algae. Regarding global warming and CO2, the area conversion of peatlands will help, but the major change here is the introduction of a carbon tax for the entire agricultural industry. And to end confusion regarding other emissions than CO2, it's actually a CO2-equivalent (CO2e) tax, which includes a range of other gasses. E.g., 1kg of methane is 25kg CO2e. If you'd like to read more, see the two PDF documents below, which are the main official documents. They're in Danish, but upload them to Claude or ChatGPT, and you'll have a much better source of information if you'd like to know more about the specifics and how the actual implementation is planned. [1] https://www.regeringen.dk/media/13261/aftale-om-et-groent-danmark.pdf https://www.regeringen.dk/media/13261/aftale-om-et-groent-da... [2] https://mgtp.dk/media/iinpdy3w/aftale_om_implementering_af_et_groent_danmark_endelig.pdf https://mgtp.dk/media/iinpdy3w/aftale_om_implementering_af_e...

SoftTalker 2y ago
> it's actually a CO2-equivalent (CO2e) tax, which includes a range of other gasses. E.g., 1kg of methane is 25kg CO2e Your pig farmers must be thrilled.
- dgfitz 2y ago
  I had to look it up, Denmark is allegedly a world leader in pig farming exports. You make a really interesting point that I feel like garners more discourse. https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture/livestock/pigs/#:~:text=The%20Danish%20pig%20industry%20is,world's%20largest%20pig%20meat%20exporters https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture....
  - busterarm 2y ago
    Denmark is also THE world leader in pork consumption.
    - boomboomsubban 2y ago
      This doesn't seem to be true. In 2002 it appeared to be true, but the way it was calculated was by calculating the full mass of pigs produced and subtracting the amount exported. This didn't take into account that exports tended not to include heavy bones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons... More recent data shows thir pork consumption as nothing noteworthy, though I have no idea how good the data is https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pork-consumption-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pork-cons...
  - AdamN 2y ago
    There's a great few episodes on this in Borgen where the PMs paramour goes to the hospital because there are so many hormones pumped into Danish pigs and how powerful the industry is in the country.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  Thought cows are methane intensive
  - ostacke 2y ago
    They are, but Denmark is pig-intensive
- JacobJeppesen 2y ago
  It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Also, an important note here is that they were part of the negotiations, and as such were part of the agreement which was proposed to the parliament. All that being said, you're right, they're not exactly thrilled with the government adding taxes and monitoring them more.
  - account42 2y ago
    > It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Do people really still buy this trick?
    - guappa 2y ago
      Subsidies will be cut by a future government so it's all fine :D
      - JacobJeppesen 2y ago
        They've tried to avoid this by doing the negotiations between the government and interest organizations from all sides. The most surprising part of all this is really that these organizations, which included the main agricultural lobby organizations and the main nature preservation organizations, managed to sit down together and come to an agreement. This agreement was then proposed to the parliament, which voted it through with a broad coalition from both sides. So, that should ideally make it somewhat resilient to changing governments. Of course, that's not a guarantee, but at least it should be more solid than most of these political agreements :)
    - AdamN 2y ago
      Agriculture has been subsidized for security and stability reasons for a very long time - this isn't a trick it's the status quo ex ante.
  - fifilura 2y ago
    So you tax them for CO2 and then subsidize them for the same reason? How does help anyone else than salaries for tax and subsidy administrators?
- lofaszvanitt 2y ago
  Give them seaweeds to lower their gas output.
xhkkffbf 2y ago
Confusion? I skimmed the headline and saw that they were planting "eighteen" trees. We need better fonts.
manvillej 2y ago
I am very conflicted on a carbon tax for the agriculture industry. It is going to sidle a cost to an industry of razor thin margins. The transition from regenerative agriculture is expensive & rising food costs has a destabilizing effect. There need to be changes, but I am not convinced that this will have the desired effects. Its quite possible this leads to a net conversion of farmland to residential or commercial property rather than nature.
- lovemenot 2y ago
  It should be fine, I believe. Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. So a shift from meat to other food crops would be a net win, even as it frees up land for other purposes. Many farmers will receive a one-time payment on land sales and some will use this windfall to subsidise their transition from growing livestock to more environmentally-friendly food.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. This assumes that the land is equally usable for both activities. Many times, it isn't: a lot of land that's good enough for grazing cows doesn't have enough water available for growing plants that people want to (or can) eat. People can't eat grass. This probably isn't an issue in Denmark, but in many other places it is.
    - bluefirebrand 2y ago
      It also ignores that animals produce the manure that is used to fertilize soil to grow crops in.
      - hombre_fatal 2y ago
        We use manure because it's coming out of the gills of the animal ag industry, not because it's necessary to enrich crop soil. Just because plastic bags are ubiquitous doesn't mean it's the only nor best way to carry items around, nor that we'd lose the ability to transport goods if they were phased out, nor that they don't come at a cost despite perceiving them as free.
space_oddity 2y ago
It’s always better to go to the source to avoid misinterpretation
MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago
So effectively offshoring carbon production to places that don’t care?
- delusional 2y ago
  No. The document spells out that denmark intends to remain a "strong" producer of agricultural products by increasing the yield from other, less ecologically damaging, farming areas. You should read the introduction.
  - stainablesteel 2y ago
    They write these things all the time while continually outsourcing their carbon emissions to other countries. Follow the supply chains.
drcwpl 2y ago
Thank you for the links and clarification, it makes more sense now
cynicalsecurity 2y ago
> introduction of a carbon tax for the entire agricultural industry Polish farmers are going to eat you alive for this.
sinuhe69 2y ago
"They're in Danish, but upload them to Claude or ChatGPT, and you'll have a much better source" Eh, people don't know that Google Translate can translate documents (PDF, Doc etc.) as well?!
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

SoftTalker 2y ago

> it's actually a CO2-equivalent (CO2e) tax, which includes a range of other gasses. E.g., 1kg of methane is 25kg CO2e Your pig farmers must be thrilled.

dgfitz 2y ago
I had to look it up, Denmark is allegedly a world leader in pig farming exports. You make a really interesting point that I feel like garners more discourse. https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture/livestock/pigs/#:~:text=The%20Danish%20pig%20industry%20is,world's%20largest%20pig%20meat%20exporters https://agricultureandfood.dk/danish-agriculture/agriculture....
- busterarm 2y ago
  Denmark is also THE world leader in pork consumption.
  - boomboomsubban 2y ago
    This doesn't seem to be true. In 2002 it appeared to be true, but the way it was calculated was by calculating the full mass of pigs produced and subtracting the amount exported. This didn't take into account that exports tended not to include heavy bones. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_consumption https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_meat_cons... More recent data shows thir pork consumption as nothing noteworthy, though I have no idea how good the data is https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pork-consumption-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pork-cons...
- AdamN 2y ago
  There's a great few episodes on this in Borgen where the PMs paramour goes to the hospital because there are so many hormones pumped into Danish pigs and how powerful the industry is in the country.
tcfhgj 2y ago
Thought cows are methane intensive
- ostacke 2y ago
  They are, but Denmark is pig-intensive
JacobJeppesen 2y ago
It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Also, an important note here is that they were part of the negotiations, and as such were part of the agreement which was proposed to the parliament. All that being said, you're right, they're not exactly thrilled with the government adding taxes and monitoring them more.
- account42 2y ago
  > It comes with quite a lot of compensation and subsidies, so they're less angry than you might expect. Do people really still buy this trick?
  - guappa 2y ago
    Subsidies will be cut by a future government so it's all fine :D
    - JacobJeppesen 2y ago
      They've tried to avoid this by doing the negotiations between the government and interest organizations from all sides. The most surprising part of all this is really that these organizations, which included the main agricultural lobby organizations and the main nature preservation organizations, managed to sit down together and come to an agreement. This agreement was then proposed to the parliament, which voted it through with a broad coalition from both sides. So, that should ideally make it somewhat resilient to changing governments. Of course, that's not a guarantee, but at least it should be more solid than most of these political agreements :)
  - AdamN 2y ago
    Agriculture has been subsidized for security and stability reasons for a very long time - this isn't a trick it's the status quo ex ante.
- fifilura 2y ago
  So you tax them for CO2 and then subsidize them for the same reason? How does help anyone else than salaries for tax and subsidy administrators?
lofaszvanitt 2y ago
Give them seaweeds to lower their gas output.

xhkkffbf 2y ago

Confusion? I skimmed the headline and saw that they were planting "eighteen" trees. We need better fonts.

manvillej 2y ago

I am very conflicted on a carbon tax for the agriculture industry. It is going to sidle a cost to an industry of razor thin margins. The transition from regenerative agriculture is expensive & rising food costs has a destabilizing effect. There need to be changes, but I am not convinced that this will have the desired effects. Its quite possible this leads to a net conversion of farmland to residential or commercial property rather than nature.

lovemenot 2y ago
It should be fine, I believe. Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. So a shift from meat to other food crops would be a net win, even as it frees up land for other purposes. Many farmers will receive a one-time payment on land sales and some will use this windfall to subsidise their transition from growing livestock to more environmentally-friendly food.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  >Just in terms of land-use, livestock is several times less efficient than other kinds of agriculture for the same food output. This assumes that the land is equally usable for both activities. Many times, it isn't: a lot of land that's good enough for grazing cows doesn't have enough water available for growing plants that people want to (or can) eat. People can't eat grass. This probably isn't an issue in Denmark, but in many other places it is.
  - bluefirebrand 2y ago
    It also ignores that animals produce the manure that is used to fertilize soil to grow crops in.
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      We use manure because it's coming out of the gills of the animal ag industry, not because it's necessary to enrich crop soil. Just because plastic bags are ubiquitous doesn't mean it's the only nor best way to carry items around, nor that we'd lose the ability to transport goods if they were phased out, nor that they don't come at a cost despite perceiving them as free.

space_oddity 2y ago

It’s always better to go to the source to avoid misinterpretation

MaxHoppersGhost 2y ago

So effectively offshoring carbon production to places that don’t care?

delusional 2y ago
No. The document spells out that denmark intends to remain a "strong" producer of agricultural products by increasing the yield from other, less ecologically damaging, farming areas. You should read the introduction.
- stainablesteel 2y ago
  They write these things all the time while continually outsourcing their carbon emissions to other countries. Follow the supply chains.

drcwpl 2y ago

Thank you for the links and clarification, it makes more sense now

cynicalsecurity 2y ago

> introduction of a carbon tax for the entire agricultural industry Polish farmers are going to eat you alive for this.

sinuhe69 2y ago

"They're in Danish, but upload them to Claude or ChatGPT, and you'll have a much better source" Eh, people don't know that Google Translate can translate documents (PDF, Doc etc.) as well?!

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]