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I have a feeling that this is going to create a weird thing of some magnitude where accounts end up on popular blacklists for poor reasons and have no recourse.

I have a feeling that this is going to create a weird thing of some magnitude where accounts end up on popular blacklists for poor reasons and have no recourse. I’m concerned that in time it might develop into zealous communities of samethink where you have to mind any slightly dissenting opinion or you’ll get blacklisted. I think what I’m thinking about is essentially that judges cannot be replaced by community opinion. (Not that Twitter moderation was less bad).

swatcoder 2y ago
There's ultimately no getting around that kind of segmentation. You can't make everybody read what you want them to read. If you don't let people control what they encounter, whether by signing up for aggressively moderated communities or subscribing to automated curators or just manually black/white-listing as they see fit, they'll find themselves dissatisfied with all the noise and move on. Unmoderated social media is not a solution to "zealous communities" and "samethink" -- through self-selection, it just becomes a haven for whatever zealotry or samethink happens to organically dominate it.
- jfengel 2y ago
  Lack of moderation is a kind of moderation itself. It allows the loudest and most unpleasant voices to drown out everything else. "Shout louder and have a thicker skin" isn't really conducive to thoughtful discussion. It seems to me that "say whatever you want and others have the ability to decide not to listen" is about as good a compromise as you can hope for.
CuriousCosmic 2y ago
> I have a feeling that this is going to create a weird thing of some magnitude where accounts end up on popular blacklists for poor reasons and have no recourse. This actually has already kind of occurred with moderation lists and the solution has generally been to strike down list managers who abuse their authority and block them (as you can't normally add someone who has blocked you to their lists).
- tourmalinetaco 2y ago
  So, blocklists maintained to block blocklist maintainers? Resulting in blocklists to block blocklist maintainers maintaining maintainer blocklists?
- duskwuff 2y ago
  > (as you can't normally add someone who has blocked you to their lists) That seems really abuseable.
  - cwillu 2y ago
    It's standard practice for impersonators on tiktok to block the person they're impersonating for this exact reason. You can unblock to interact with a third party and then immediately reblock, etc. The victim can't even report the impersonator without a third party DM'ing them a link to the profile.
nirav72 2y ago
> that in time it might develop into zealous communities of samethink yeah, this is reddit in a nutshell. Anyone that pointed out that Harris is going to lose the election because of x reasons was ridiculed. Among other things.
- astrange 2y ago
  Don't read too much into something happening. That was about the narrowest possible loss and it doesn't validate most reasons it could've happened.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    He carried all 7 swing states, 5 of them with what looks like it will be a 2% margin or more (and those five would be enough for a victory even without the other two). We lost both houses of Congress. It was a closer election than, say, 2008, but this was a resounding defeat. Saying otherwise is just sticking your head in the sand. The DNC needs to do some serious introspection.
    - astrange 2y ago
      The DNC barely exists and doesn't do anything. (Same for the RNC.) In a presidential year it's basically all geography and coattails from the presidential campaign. This one followed the post-inflation trend from every other country, if you need a single explanation for it.
      - floobertoober 2y ago
        I disagree - IMO the idea of having superdelegates is terrible. Any way of picking your party's candidate that deviates from how the candidate is selected in the general is setting yourself up for failure. IMO this is part of why the party has lost steam and alignment with their base. That does fall on the DNC, I think
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
tourmalinetaco 2y ago
It’s already happened, for instance there are multiple blocklists that try to remove as many furries as possible (which personally is a benefit, although you may think differently). We also have more political ones, mostly anti-“right wing” as bsky trends more “left”. The more extreme elements of Twitter were the first to evacuate, so it’s no surprise that they’re already attempting to rebuild their algorithmically defined echo chambers. Dissenting opinions cause 3d6 psychic damage, after all.
- ShrimpHawk 2y ago
  "If you are tolerant to everyone, the intolerant will use that to take control and do whatever they want."
XorNot 2y ago
This is just complaining about the free speech of others though. A moderation list isn't anything more then an opinion. That's the thing: no one is obligated to not create an echo chamber if they want to be in one.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  But isn't free speech is when" others are forced to listen to me* without me seeing their trash takes? /s
Sammi 2y ago
In Bsky there is built in support for publishing and subscribing to different algorithms or feeds, and these will apply different block lists and moderation. People will subscribe to multiple feeds. It's like how there are different news channels or news sites. You follow multiple of them.

swatcoder 2y ago

There's ultimately no getting around that kind of segmentation. You can't make everybody read what you want them to read. If you don't let people control what they encounter, whether by signing up for aggressively moderated communities or subscribing to automated curators or just manually black/white-listing as they see fit, they'll find themselves dissatisfied with all the noise and move on. Unmoderated social media is not a solution to "zealous communities" and "samethink" -- through self-selection, it just becomes a haven for whatever zealotry or samethink happens to organically dominate it.

jfengel 2y ago
Lack of moderation is a kind of moderation itself. It allows the loudest and most unpleasant voices to drown out everything else. "Shout louder and have a thicker skin" isn't really conducive to thoughtful discussion. It seems to me that "say whatever you want and others have the ability to decide not to listen" is about as good a compromise as you can hope for.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago

> I have a feeling that this is going to create a weird thing of some magnitude where accounts end up on popular blacklists for poor reasons and have no recourse. This actually has already kind of occurred with moderation lists and the solution has generally been to strike down list managers who abuse their authority and block them (as you can't normally add someone who has blocked you to their lists).

tourmalinetaco 2y ago
So, blocklists maintained to block blocklist maintainers? Resulting in blocklists to block blocklist maintainers maintaining maintainer blocklists?
duskwuff 2y ago
> (as you can't normally add someone who has blocked you to their lists) That seems really abuseable.
- cwillu 2y ago
  It's standard practice for impersonators on tiktok to block the person they're impersonating for this exact reason. You can unblock to interact with a third party and then immediately reblock, etc. The victim can't even report the impersonator without a third party DM'ing them a link to the profile.

nirav72 2y ago

> that in time it might develop into zealous communities of samethink yeah, this is reddit in a nutshell. Anyone that pointed out that Harris is going to lose the election because of x reasons was ridiculed. Among other things.

astrange 2y ago
Don't read too much into something happening. That was about the narrowest possible loss and it doesn't validate most reasons it could've happened.
- lolinder 2y ago
  He carried all 7 swing states, 5 of them with what looks like it will be a 2% margin or more (and those five would be enough for a victory even without the other two). We lost both houses of Congress. It was a closer election than, say, 2008, but this was a resounding defeat. Saying otherwise is just sticking your head in the sand. The DNC needs to do some serious introspection.
  - astrange 2y ago
    The DNC barely exists and doesn't do anything. (Same for the RNC.) In a presidential year it's basically all geography and coattails from the presidential campaign. This one followed the post-inflation trend from every other country, if you need a single explanation for it.
    - floobertoober 2y ago
      I disagree - IMO the idea of having superdelegates is terrible. Any way of picking your party's candidate that deviates from how the candidate is selected in the general is setting yourself up for failure. IMO this is part of why the party has lost steam and alignment with their base. That does fall on the DNC, I think
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago

tourmalinetaco 2y ago

It’s already happened, for instance there are multiple blocklists that try to remove as many furries as possible (which personally is a benefit, although you may think differently). We also have more political ones, mostly anti-“right wing” as bsky trends more “left”. The more extreme elements of Twitter were the first to evacuate, so it’s no surprise that they’re already attempting to rebuild their algorithmically defined echo chambers. Dissenting opinions cause 3d6 psychic damage, after all.

ShrimpHawk 2y ago
"If you are tolerant to everyone, the intolerant will use that to take control and do whatever they want."

XorNot 2y ago

This is just complaining about the free speech of others though. A moderation list isn't anything more then an opinion. That's the thing: no one is obligated to not create an echo chamber if they want to be in one.

sangnoir 2y ago
But isn't free speech is when" others are forced to listen to me* without me seeing their trash takes? /s

Sammi 2y ago

In Bsky there is built in support for publishing and subscribing to different algorithms or feeds, and these will apply different block lists and moderation. People will subscribe to multiple feeds. It's like how there are different news channels or news sites. You follow multiple of them.