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"I find it incredibly sad. But it does feel like the direction society is moving toward." How would you feel about, multiple times a day, being required to def
by scarecrowbob 2y ago
"I find it incredibly sad. But it does feel like the direction society is moving toward."
How would you feel about, multiple times a day, being required to defend your core beliefs that you find trivially true? Or even being constantly exposed to folks who you tangentially know presenting a constant barrage of ideas that you find stupid and mean in ways that explicitly target you and yours?
After many years of being around that (I'm a queer/non-binary, an atheist, and politically far left) I stopped enjoying it and just started blocking folks.
I still seek out contrary opinions- that is why I regularly look at HN.
However, in my daily feed of stuff like "pictures of my nieces" and "birth/death announcements from my larger community" I don't really feel like I need to be confronted by folks who consider me to be literally demonic.
And, for the record, I don't expect those same people to be constantly subjected to my own opinions.
So it doesn't feel sad for me: if you consider places like "churches" or "chambers of commerce meetings" to be "safe spaces" for particular kinds of folks, then it just seems "normal".
- timmg 2y ago> How would you feel about, multiple times a day, being required to defend your core beliefs that you find trivially true? Do you have to defend, or can you just ignore. I assume those statements are still being made, even if you don’t read them. So why not just ignore and move on? FWIW, Twitter (not saying Twitter is the best or only site) allows you to have a feed of only people you follow. That probably approximates going to another site of only people who share your core beliefs.
- bscphil 2y agoMy guess is that as a queer person, scarecrowbob gets regularly exposed to opinions that rise far beyond a mere difference of belief, and looks more like perpetual small doses of unmoderateable hatred. People who are willing to say that queer people are "literally demonic", for example, are not really offering some kind of thoughtful argument that queer people need to be engaging. But this toxicity is often expressed in ways that platforms are unable, or unwilling, to stop.
- Funes- 2y ago[flagged]
- Chihuan 2y agoIt was an echo chamber, the Tumblr Exodus made society much more leftwing overall when they moved into Reddit and Twitter, despite still using 4chan memes to this day.
- sergiotapia 2y agoyou are absolutely correct. this is why blueski and mastodon will ultimately fail.
- Eisenstein 2y agoPeople aren't built to ignore attacks on them and if they make themselves do it constantly it really has an effect on their self-esteem. See: bullying.
- hocuspocus 2y agoWhen the effort to ignore/mute/block hateful content outweighs the rest of the user experience... guess what happens? It doesn't matter if you interact only with people you follow, given that anyone with a bit of an audience gets plenty of hateful replies.
- JoshTriplett 2y ago> Do you have to defend, or can you just ignore. There's a concept of "background radiation" expressed in social spaces. Dealing with a constant barrage of people who hate you or your existence[1] is tiring. [1] Or perhaps they claim they don't hate you in particular, just, you know, anyone like you who they don't know in particular.
- timeon 2y ago> only people you follow No ads?
- rsynnott 2y agoTwitter has systematically broken the tools for ignoring it. No more mass blocklists, no more third party clients, an algorithm designed around shoving the content of the sort of idiots who pay for self-promotion in your face… I mean, no thanks.
- LucasOe 2y agoThat's the reason why people are moving to Bluesky: because there you don't have a make a constant effort to ignore posts. On Twitter, I have a make an active effort to not click on the "For you" tab because I'll be bombarded with posts about Trump or "woke" games, which I simply don't want to see. On Bluesky, I can actually discover new content without having to think about my mental health when using the "Discover" feed.
- claar 2y agoI like your point and analogy about safe places being a normal aspect of society, where like-minded people gather. Perhaps you're right that it's not the end of the world to have multiple massive social networks. Secondly, I find it so interesting that you come to HN for "contrary opinions" from your self-described "politically far left" viewpoint. I hold a politically right viewpoint, and I come to HN for the same reason - it feels far left of my own world view. I think it's pretty cool that HN can serve as a more neutral safe meeting place of minds.
- TRiG_Ireland 2y agoHN is literally owned and operated by a VC company. And a lot of the conversation is absolutely celebrating capitalism. It's as far from "far left" as might be imagined.
- achierius 2y agoDepends on what you mean by left. Some people, including many who would describe themselves as such, think "leftist" means things like pronouns and reparations, and are even happy to engage with capital when it supports their pet causes.
- bbor 2y ago…source? I’ve literally never once met a capitalist leftist, only ones that still use the word to avoid alienating people, e.g. Sanders. No offense but I think this is a case of echo chambers in work impeding our discourse —- leftism is anti capitalism, and has been since its inception in France.
- gethoht 2y agoI think it's more due to political ignorance and the overton window shifting right the last 50 years. People tend to equate modern liberalism, which is very much pro-markets and pro-capital, with leftism.
- 2y ago
- zem 2y ago[flagged]
- zeroonetwothree 2y agoSo basically you don’t actually want diversity of thought. That’s fine if it’s what you want but at least be honest and admit it. Let’s not redefine standard terms please, it makes it hard to have a discussion.
- zem 2y agono, to my mind there's diversity, and there's "there are always two sides to everything and both have to be given equal consideration". the latter is a huge mistake and is how we get climate change deniers and transphobes platformed in major newspapers.
- lolinder 2y agoBut there are two sides to everything and both should be given equal consideration. There are also extremes on both sides that should be recognized and rejected as such. And the only way to sift out the two and make sure you're not accidentally skewing towards one extreme is to consistently try to understand other people's perspectives. This practice is both educational—it helps you see where you might be wrong after all—and crucial for anyone who wants to actually make a difference in the world. Rejecting the perspectives of 50% of the population out of hand is a great way to lose popular support and elections.
- BeefWellington 2y agoOk, two sides to this equation: Lolinder has no right to continue existing. Lolinder has every right to continue existing. Explain why you feel you personally are required to entertain the idea of both of those options. This is effectively what you are arguing must be done in the context of this thread.
- 2y ago
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoWho's requiring you to defend your beliefs? I'm asking, but not requiring.
- _neil 2y ago[flagged]
- ThrowawayTestr 2y agoMy account is two years old and I have more updoots than you. Maybe address my comment instead of my username.
- _neil 2y ago[flagged]
- scarecrowbob 2y agoWhile it's true no one has a gun to my head to defend myself, folks post stuff that assert my politics are indefeasible quite often.
- Slava_Propanei 2y ago[dead]