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My company has banned the use of Jetbrains IDEs internally
- skwee357 2y agoGlad I invested the time to learn Vim. Can't trust anyone these days. Everything seems to revolve around politics.
- elric 2y agoEclipse is still a great option for Java. And I was pleasantly surprised at Devoxx last month when Oracle's Stuart Marks whipped out ye olde Netbeans for some live coding during a talk. Dev tool monopolies are as bad as any other monopoly.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- willio58 2y agoI know this is so common to say that it's a joke at this point but... I'd just quit. If people in my company are making sweeping decisions that I disagree with (how much they are based in reality aside), I would just leave. If the company isn't aligning with you on something you feel passionately about, just leave. There are oodles of companies out there that would align with you on this.
- subhro 2y agoI hope you understand how privileged you are to be able to say that and hopefully do what you say.
- Buttons840 2y agoBeing in a position to point out the privilege of another is itself quite a privilege. There is rarely a suggestion given in modern society that doesn't assume a good amount of privilege, and pointing this out every time isn't helpful. I welcome suggestions that can help those who cannot simply quit, but you didn't give such a suggestion, which is why I say it wasn't helpful. Accusing people of privilege is a dead end. A person who has been accused of privilege is left without direction. It is better to say "what about these other people" than to say "you're privileged", because it directs attention to the other people. It avoids accusation and focuses attention on those in need.
- FredPret 2y agoThis is so tiresome. If you’re reading this you’re privileged. Somewhere on this planet is a single individual human who is the very unluckiest and most unfortunate. Everyone else is privileged. Even that guy is lucky to be alive now and not 1000 years ago. None of this makes OP wrong.
- digging 2y agoNothing you just posted is relevant to the conversation. Most HN readers can't quit their job on a whim without putting their household in jeopardy. That's the sentiment you're responding to.
- FredPret 2y agoBe that as it may, it's a real solution for many. Calling out a solution as "privileged" adds nothing to this site. You have a job at all? You have the brain and attention span to read this far? You can use computers to solve problems? That's a privilege. And yet we don't point that out every time a programming or career or product question is asked and answered. Perhaps OP could have added something a bit gentler like "quit your job - if you can". But it's fundamentally a sound plan for many of us, and crucially, also even for many of us who aren't aware how much market power they really have.
- nnf 2y agoUseful link to the JetBrains blog from the Reddit discussion: https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/12/06/update-on-jetbrains-statement-on-ukraine/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/12/06/update-on-jetbrai... From that blog post (2022): > In addition to terminating all sales, all of our offices in Russia, including Moscow, Novosibirsk, and St. Petersburg were shut down. Work on the new campus in St. Petersburg was also terminated. All R&D activities were gradually stopped and liquidation papers for our Russian legal entity were filed in August 2022.
- mananaysiempre 2y agoAnd a fair amount of people were relocated, Russian and Ukrainian both. I wanted to be mad at JetBrains for joining the “screw the closest Russian we can get our hands on” wave[1], but I’m not really able to because of that. [1] A contemporary joke went (hope the translation works): “Durex has announced it is leaving Russia. When asked for comment, the company’s representative responded, ‘Not our fucking problem now.’ ”
- stackskipton 2y agoMy guess is continued heavy employment of Russian citizens is the problem. Risk of state putting pressure on their families and turning them may be too high for certain government agencies.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- teddyh 2y ago> We are primarily a Go and Python shop, which means our only real option is VSCode I’d like to echo the sentiments of Reddit user tikhonjelvis, who commented¹: “Man, I knew CS programs were skimping on Emacs fundamentals, but I hadn't realized it was this bad.” 1. <https://old.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/1gqj7qa/my_company_has_banned_the_use_of_jetbrains_ides/lwyggo5/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ExperiencedDevs/comments/1gqj7qa/my...>
- awestroke 2y agoBelieve it or not, ignorance is not the main reason people don't use emacs
- teddyh 2y agoPeople who write “our only real option is VSCode” about Python and Go programmers are ignorant of what Emacs can do. Some people may prefer something else, but Emacs is a real option.
- irrational 2y agoOr, they are aware of what Emacs can do and still consider it to not be a real option for other reasons.
- teddyh 2y agoThey would have to be rather specific and specialized reasons, and they did not specify anything of the kind, just “Go and Python”.
- badrequest 2y agoThey don't "have" to be any of those things. People are not consistently rational actors, as evidenced by your continued advocacy for Emacs.
- cweagans 2y ago
- phplovesong 2y agoIIRC jetbrains was a russian company, backed by people close to putin. Then they "migrated" away from russia (jetbrains users are 90% westerners) to avoid losing their users, and even made some blog post about it, but from what i have heard the people behind the curtains whose names are in no legal papers are in fact still the same people with close ties to putin and his inner circle.
- Freak_NL 2y agoWhere have you heard about these people whose names are in no legal papers? Is the source credible? Is there any proof?
- stackedinserter 2y ago> IIRC jetbrains was a russian company, backed by people close to putin Who are these people?
- felixgallo 2y ago'from what I have heard'? From where?
- tartoran 2y agoIt's in the original post: >The official reason given was that Jetbrains has Russian ties. No amount of arguing could get leadership to reverse the decision.
- ziddoap 2y agoThe original post says nothing about "the people behind the curtains whose names are in no legal papers are in fact still the same people with close ties to putin and his inner circle.", which is the sentence that comes directly after phplovesong says "from what I've heard"
- kgeist 2y agoAll 135 mln ethnic Russians seem to have close ties to Putin, from what I understand reading Western media.
- toprerules 2y agoI've seen so many editors come and go, and yet I've been using Vim for the past 20 years and have never had a problem. As stupid as it sounds, if I could give one piece of advice to any entry level SWE, it would be to learn Vim or Emacs and just stick with it for your whole career.
- pomatic 2y agoCan you offer up a .emacs that provides the same functionality as say, PHPstorm? I've tried, and not been able to reach that level of functionality.
- criddell 2y agoI'd give the opposite advice. Learning a new editor is fun and thankfully they are mostly inexpensive. You will build up a suite of editors that you use in different contexts and be able to talk about the differences based on experience and not just dogma.
- twelve40 2y agoI find this and the emacs sentiment really weird. I use vim daily for quick edits, but for any sizeable codebase, especially new/unfamiliar, IDE's are just better. It's like depriving yourself of a bunch of tools and helpers for no visible benefit.
- packetlost 2y agoidk, I find I don't miss anything from heavyweight IDEs. I switched to neovim like 6 years ago. 95% of working with a codebase, familiar or not, is navigation and editing. LSPs enable pretty much any editor to intelligently navigate to definitions and find usages of a given construct. Anything beyond that is quickly hitting diminishing returns. The one exception is maybe untangling particularly gnarly git conflicts.
- binary132 2y agogood thing Emacs has a best in class git and visual diff editor package
- snarbles 2y agoGood on Jetbrains
- baudpunk 2y agoAlso had this concern sometime ago, and then did 2 minutes of research before no longer having this concern.
- kgeist 2y agoThe perspective here in Russia is diametrically opposite. The common opinion is that JetBrains has completely severed its ties with Russia and appears to have pro-Western, probably European management: they don't sell in Russia anymore, and recently they have started silently deleting licenses of users who appear to have Russian IPs as detected by their license server. Local companies have to use proxies.
- codingwagie 2y agoJetBrains has gone downhill since they purged their original developers. The IDE is not as performant, and newer versions are full of bugs. I have heard this first hand from people in Russia. Cursor.sh and ai development tools are a huge threat to the company, and are far outside their core competency. Decent chance they cannot keep up with innovation, and their hyper tuned IDEs become obsolete.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- xyst 2y agoI used to love using JB products, especially for refactoring massive Java projects. But over the years, the IDEs have become more and more bloated. Even without adding any plugins, the IDE is very clunky. Have switched back to using neovim (my go-to during college with a crappy MacBook, lol) and set it up with nvchad to lazy load the LSP plugins. Haven’t looked back. Did it take months (gradually improving and re-learning) to get to this point? Yes, it did. But in the long run, I learned to be more efficient in my writing and removed a yearly subscription as well.
- jamwil 2y agoSame path for me. Sick of things changing and breaking underneath me. Neovim is a labour of love for a while but once you have your config dialled in and some muscle memory, it’s very performant. I really like Neovide as a gui. Brings the whole experience together.
- yapyap 2y ago> If anyone has ever gone from a Jetbrains IDE back to VSCode, you likely know that this transition feels pretty bad. Does anyone know what OOP is talking about here? VSCode is working just fine for me and I do not have a reddit account to ask it him myself
- viraptor 2y agoOut of the box JB apps have much more built in feature. You can reach a similar level with multiple extensions in vs code, but you have to spend significant time on that. And the behaviour from independent extensions is not as polished in the end.
- TiredOfLife 2y agoPHP and Ruby support in VS Code is abysmal.
- zopic_drone 2y agojust use the cursor and upload everything to the almighty AI