9 ms·

Apple Removes Green Electronics Certification From Products

146 points by rkudeshi 14y ago

ghshephard 14y ago
Gruber ranted about the iFixit's blog article on the difficulty of recycling the new Retina MacBook Pro on at least a couple podcasts - the implication being that the iFixit guy didn't really know what he was talking about with regards to the recycling element. Let's see if he comes forth with a mea culpa, now that Apple is as much as admitting that their newer models just aren't easily recyclable - otherwise why else would they be pulling the EPEAT certification from their products?
- dalke 14y ago
  'Why' could be as simple as 'the new CEO has different priorities than the old.'
  - Dystopian 14y ago
    Really? If you gave Jobs the choice between making a better product or having a government issued Green certification - you think he'd pick the certification... If anything this is incredibly Jobs-ian as it's obvious that Cook isn't cow-towing to big business and Government organizations that now won't be able to buy their products. From a strategic standpoint I see more recycling incentives coming for users over the next few months. They're having trouble keeping the "Apple Refurbished" shelves stocked - I can definitely see their high end refurbished line becoming their version of a "budget" line for low-end consumers.
    - ctdonath 14y ago
      From a strategic standpoint I see more recycling incentives coming for users over the next few months. They're having trouble keeping the "Apple Refurbished" shelves stocked Bingo. Apple has no incentive to help anyone else disassemble and repurpose their products, while methinks their refurb unit can use all the components they can recover.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- MaxGabriel 14y ago
  I think Gruber's response was pretty compelling: Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge. http://www.apple.com/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/recycling/
  - cookiecaper 14y ago
    Which doesn't mean the Mac is actually made of recyclable material, it just means that Apple does the dirty work for you; they throw out the non-recyclables and may (or may not) recycle the recyclables. While this may allow Apple's customers to retain a larger amount of "warm and fuzzies", it probably doesn't pass muster for a person who is seriously concerned about environmentalism.
    - sanswork 14y ago
      The certification is about easy recyclability not about recyclability in general. While it could be taken that they are saying their products are not recyclable anymore one could also say that they are just accepting that they aren't recyclable with standard tools anymore. Given the new retina laptops this definitely makes sense and its nice to see them volunteering to remove themselves before being removed by the organisation.
      - jacobolus 14y ago
        It sounds like products are certified on a product-by-product basis, and this decision was more about not wanting consumers to wonder/worry about why one Mac laptop was certified and another wasn’t.
        ZeroGravitas 14y ago
        No, it's about trying to kill the standard. Many institutions can only buy epeat certified hardware. If the standard doesn't say what Apple wants it to say, then Apple will stop them from buying any of their products, even the ones that comply. Should be an interesting standoff.
  - 14y ago
- Shenglong 14y ago
  otherwise why else would they be pulling the EPEAT certification from their products? Apple probably did not see certification as important to its future growth. Apple was probably also dealing with pressure for EPEAT - and decided the hassle just wasn't worth it. Dropping governing bodies is never an easy decision, but Apple has so much influence already, that it's difficult to say whether trends will follow Apple, or stay with EPEAT. Considering Apple actually provides the value, my bet is on the former.
Metapony 14y ago
Goodbye Apple, hello Crapple.
SoftwareMaven 14y ago
I'd like to see more info about this. If true, it's very disappointing, but I could also see it being a case where government regulation has failed to keep up with a changing industry. It may be just as possible to recycle an Apple product today as last year, but I won't believe Apple, I won't believe Gruber, and I won't believe the first guy at the WSJ who is "grabbing a scoop". As is typical in the media, I'm left with very few trustworthy sources.
- eridius 14y ago
  As the story itself says, Apple offers recycling programs. I don't particularly care about the ease with which I could disassemble my own laptop, since I'm never going to do that, and as long as Apple is willing to recycle the machine for me I'm happy.
  - soupysoupysoup 14y ago
    According to what NatGeo and a few others dug up (literally) Apple hardly recycles anything. The glue alone makes recycling an impossible task. They ship most of it off in containers to be sold in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia, where the lower castes and children strip out the precious metals by burning or cooking (highly toxic, but easiest way to remove the glue) or scraping the components by hand. The plastic and glass remnants are dumped in available spaces. And before anyone says the glue is a new thing, try to take apart a PSU from a Powerbook.
    - earl 14y ago
      Do you have a link? If you're right I'm really bummed. edit: I can't really find details on apple's site and I'm tired. This site [1] discusses apple's recycling, though since it isn't apple proper I'm not sure it's authoritative. The relevant details appear to be: Apple's recycler for non-Apple product recycling is WeRecycle!, a certified e-Steward. Certified e-Stewards are recyclers who have been audited by an accredited auditor, and found to be conforming to the rigorous e-Stewards standard. If you are using Apple's trade-in system, this is a different vendor, called Power-On. Power-On is not an e-Steward (and they don't disclose their recycling partner), so this trade-in program therefore does not benefit from independent auditing to high standards. However, Apple has a very strong policy regarding responsible recycling of e-waste, stating that all e-waste collected in their programs is handled in the same region in which it is collected (and therefore not exported to developing countries). They prohibit use of prison labor for recycling, as well as incineration and landfilling of e-waste. So that sound reasonable, but it would be much better if there were a direct statement on Apple's site. [1] http://www.electronicstakeback.com/how-to-recycle-electronics/manufacturer-takeback-programs/apples-takeback-program/ http://www.electronicstakeback.com/how-to-recycle-electronic...
dshep 14y ago
My recollection is that Apple has not compared very favorable with their competitors in this respect for a while now. And now that their products are becoming increasingly difficult to repair/disassemble, perhaps the strategy is to bail now rather than face even poorer ratings in the future?
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Even without structural changes, the new Apple has never been environmentally friendly. They "design for the dump" and bring out new versions every year, and quickly obsolete old versions.
  - jacobolus 14y ago
    In my personal experience, Mac computers tend to last much longer than their Windows counterparts. For example, my parents continued to use a Mac SE they bought in 1989 until about 2005, and I know several people who continue to use 8–10 year-old Mac laptops. My last two Mac laptops have each lasted 4–5 years, and the one I’m typing on is still going strong. I don’t think a reasonable evidence-backed case can be made for your implication that Mac laptops are designed to be obsolete more quickly than, e.g., HP, Dell, or Toshiba laptops.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      I was more referring to their mobile division, but it applies to some extent to Macs.
      - jacobolus 14y ago
        I wouldn’t expect that Apple is far from the industry norm in any of these categories. Most phones of every brand are replaced every 2–3 years. If you meant merely that electronic consumer gadgets as a category seem to get dumped out too quickly, I heartily agree.
        14y ago
mmackh 14y ago
Just for clarification purposes: EPEAT certification requires certain standards that make the machines easy to disassemble and recycle using common tools.
Tichy 14y ago
I'm sure our handy friends in Africa will find a way to pry even Retina MacBooks apart with their bare hands.
guscost 14y ago
Well, I have more respect for Apple now, and still none for Greenpeace.
jws 14y ago
I had a look at EPEAT. It is possible that Apple just doesn't want them as a design partner. There are thousands of design tradeoffs to be made in a laptop. Is EPEAT willing to update and republish their rules every time a manufacturer finds a better solution that doesn't comply with the rules? The guidelines seem to track well with 2000 era PCs and cell phones. From what I can see (EPEAT does not make their guidelines available without payment, there may have been something useful in their Resources section, but I'm finding broken links to third party file sharing sites) they have a set of categories that are required and some that are optional. By how many optionals you meet you get a bronze, silver, or gold rating. Apple marketing can't tolerate anything but a gold. The guidelines I see don't have flexibility to them. For instance, if you can reduce your glass consumption by 50% by gluing it to something that can acceptably be chucked into the glass recycler, that may be a better environmental decision, but it may also be forbidden by EPEAT. EPEAT says things need to be taken apart with "common tools". Does the pentalobular screw head count? I doubt it. Even if Apple sends pentalobular screwdrivers with each pallet of computers to the recycler it doesn't count for EPEAT.
- joe_the_user 14y ago
  Uh, " It is possible that..", "I see don't"... "may be a better ... decision"..."The guidelines I see"... "I doubt it" Your claims are a long stream of unsupported speculation. Rather than speculate, we can consult the article. The article mentions that the guidelines were developed with Apple's input. The article sources a couple people who noted that the recent MacBook Pro was mostly unrecycleable. And the "something" which the screen was glued to is the battery and given that batteries are major source of toxic waste, it is hard to imagine how a smaller battery or screen might be a desirable trade-off for the battery's toxic ingredients entering the environment. Edit: re-reading the article, the situation is that the screen is glued to the case and the battery is glued to the case. Effectively the same result: '“If the battery is glued to the case it means you can’t recycle the case and you can’t recycle the battery,” Frisbee said.'
  - jws 14y ago
    I'm not inclined to consider the article as especially authoritative. It is mostly echoes from blog posts collected into a story. …guidelines were developed with Apple's input… In what year? Half a decade ago? A decade? You can not simultaneously innovate better manufacturing and make things the same old way. People need to stop being in a glue tizzy. I'm sure that in a recycling context the glue can be undone with either heat or a chisel. And remember that Apple has a plan in place to replace those batteries. I suspect the story we are not seeing is that EPEAT is not willing to update the standard fast enough to adapt to modern manufacturing. And they probably shouldn't. Apple will be secretive until release, and EPEAT should take some time to think about things. Those just aren't going to work together.

146 points by rkudeshi 14y ago

Gruber ranted about the iFixit's blog article on the difficulty of recycling the new Retina MacBook Pro on at least a couple podcasts - the implication being that the iFixit guy didn't really know what he was talking about with regards to the recycling element. Let's see if he comes forth with a mea culpa, now that Apple is as much as admitting that their newer models just aren't easily recyclable - otherwise why else would they be pulling the EPEAT certification from their products?

dalke 14y ago
'Why' could be as simple as 'the new CEO has different priorities than the old.'
- Dystopian 14y ago
  Really? If you gave Jobs the choice between making a better product or having a government issued Green certification - you think he'd pick the certification... If anything this is incredibly Jobs-ian as it's obvious that Cook isn't cow-towing to big business and Government organizations that now won't be able to buy their products. From a strategic standpoint I see more recycling incentives coming for users over the next few months. They're having trouble keeping the "Apple Refurbished" shelves stocked - I can definitely see their high end refurbished line becoming their version of a "budget" line for low-end consumers.
  - ctdonath 14y ago
    From a strategic standpoint I see more recycling incentives coming for users over the next few months. They're having trouble keeping the "Apple Refurbished" shelves stocked Bingo. Apple has no incentive to help anyone else disassemble and repurpose their products, while methinks their refurb unit can use all the components they can recover.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
MaxGabriel 14y ago
I think Gruber's response was pretty compelling: Apple will recycle any PC/Mac/Phone/iPod at their store or by mail free of charge. http://www.apple.com/recycling/ http://www.apple.com/recycling/
- cookiecaper 14y ago
  Which doesn't mean the Mac is actually made of recyclable material, it just means that Apple does the dirty work for you; they throw out the non-recyclables and may (or may not) recycle the recyclables. While this may allow Apple's customers to retain a larger amount of "warm and fuzzies", it probably doesn't pass muster for a person who is seriously concerned about environmentalism.
  - sanswork 14y ago
    The certification is about easy recyclability not about recyclability in general. While it could be taken that they are saying their products are not recyclable anymore one could also say that they are just accepting that they aren't recyclable with standard tools anymore. Given the new retina laptops this definitely makes sense and its nice to see them volunteering to remove themselves before being removed by the organisation.
    - jacobolus 14y ago
      It sounds like products are certified on a product-by-product basis, and this decision was more about not wanting consumers to wonder/worry about why one Mac laptop was certified and another wasn’t.
      - ZeroGravitas 14y ago
        No, it's about trying to kill the standard. Many institutions can only buy epeat certified hardware. If the standard doesn't say what Apple wants it to say, then Apple will stop them from buying any of their products, even the ones that comply. Should be an interesting standoff.
- 14y ago
Shenglong 14y ago
otherwise why else would they be pulling the EPEAT certification from their products? Apple probably did not see certification as important to its future growth. Apple was probably also dealing with pressure for EPEAT - and decided the hassle just wasn't worth it. Dropping governing bodies is never an easy decision, but Apple has so much influence already, that it's difficult to say whether trends will follow Apple, or stay with EPEAT. Considering Apple actually provides the value, my bet is on the former.

Metapony 14y ago

Goodbye Apple, hello Crapple.

SoftwareMaven 14y ago

I'd like to see more info about this. If true, it's very disappointing, but I could also see it being a case where government regulation has failed to keep up with a changing industry. It may be just as possible to recycle an Apple product today as last year, but I won't believe Apple, I won't believe Gruber, and I won't believe the first guy at the WSJ who is "grabbing a scoop". As is typical in the media, I'm left with very few trustworthy sources.

eridius 14y ago
As the story itself says, Apple offers recycling programs. I don't particularly care about the ease with which I could disassemble my own laptop, since I'm never going to do that, and as long as Apple is willing to recycle the machine for me I'm happy.
- soupysoupysoup 14y ago
  According to what NatGeo and a few others dug up (literally) Apple hardly recycles anything. The glue alone makes recycling an impossible task. They ship most of it off in containers to be sold in India, Pakistan, and Indonesia, where the lower castes and children strip out the precious metals by burning or cooking (highly toxic, but easiest way to remove the glue) or scraping the components by hand. The plastic and glass remnants are dumped in available spaces. And before anyone says the glue is a new thing, try to take apart a PSU from a Powerbook.
  - earl 14y ago
    Do you have a link? If you're right I'm really bummed. edit: I can't really find details on apple's site and I'm tired. This site [1] discusses apple's recycling, though since it isn't apple proper I'm not sure it's authoritative. The relevant details appear to be: Apple's recycler for non-Apple product recycling is WeRecycle!, a certified e-Steward. Certified e-Stewards are recyclers who have been audited by an accredited auditor, and found to be conforming to the rigorous e-Stewards standard. If you are using Apple's trade-in system, this is a different vendor, called Power-On. Power-On is not an e-Steward (and they don't disclose their recycling partner), so this trade-in program therefore does not benefit from independent auditing to high standards. However, Apple has a very strong policy regarding responsible recycling of e-waste, stating that all e-waste collected in their programs is handled in the same region in which it is collected (and therefore not exported to developing countries). They prohibit use of prison labor for recycling, as well as incineration and landfilling of e-waste. So that sound reasonable, but it would be much better if there were a direct statement on Apple's site. [1] http://www.electronicstakeback.com/how-to-recycle-electronics/manufacturer-takeback-programs/apples-takeback-program/ http://www.electronicstakeback.com/how-to-recycle-electronic...

dshep 14y ago

My recollection is that Apple has not compared very favorable with their competitors in this respect for a while now. And now that their products are becoming increasingly difficult to repair/disassemble, perhaps the strategy is to bail now rather than face even poorer ratings in the future?

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Even without structural changes, the new Apple has never been environmentally friendly. They "design for the dump" and bring out new versions every year, and quickly obsolete old versions.
- jacobolus 14y ago
  In my personal experience, Mac computers tend to last much longer than their Windows counterparts. For example, my parents continued to use a Mac SE they bought in 1989 until about 2005, and I know several people who continue to use 8–10 year-old Mac laptops. My last two Mac laptops have each lasted 4–5 years, and the one I’m typing on is still going strong. I don’t think a reasonable evidence-backed case can be made for your implication that Mac laptops are designed to be obsolete more quickly than, e.g., HP, Dell, or Toshiba laptops.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    I was more referring to their mobile division, but it applies to some extent to Macs.
    - jacobolus 14y ago
      I wouldn’t expect that Apple is far from the industry norm in any of these categories. Most phones of every brand are replaced every 2–3 years. If you meant merely that electronic consumer gadgets as a category seem to get dumped out too quickly, I heartily agree.
      - 14y ago

mmackh 14y ago

Just for clarification purposes: EPEAT certification requires certain standards that make the machines easy to disassemble and recycle using common tools.

Tichy 14y ago

I'm sure our handy friends in Africa will find a way to pry even Retina MacBooks apart with their bare hands.

guscost 14y ago

Well, I have more respect for Apple now, and still none for Greenpeace.

jws 14y ago

I had a look at EPEAT. It is possible that Apple just doesn't want them as a design partner. There are thousands of design tradeoffs to be made in a laptop. Is EPEAT willing to update and republish their rules every time a manufacturer finds a better solution that doesn't comply with the rules? The guidelines seem to track well with 2000 era PCs and cell phones. From what I can see (EPEAT does not make their guidelines available without payment, there may have been something useful in their Resources section, but I'm finding broken links to third party file sharing sites) they have a set of categories that are required and some that are optional. By how many optionals you meet you get a bronze, silver, or gold rating. Apple marketing can't tolerate anything but a gold. The guidelines I see don't have flexibility to them. For instance, if you can reduce your glass consumption by 50% by gluing it to something that can acceptably be chucked into the glass recycler, that may be a better environmental decision, but it may also be forbidden by EPEAT. EPEAT says things need to be taken apart with "common tools". Does the pentalobular screw head count? I doubt it. Even if Apple sends pentalobular screwdrivers with each pallet of computers to the recycler it doesn't count for EPEAT.

joe_the_user 14y ago
Uh, " It is possible that..", "I see don't"... "may be a better ... decision"..."The guidelines I see"... "I doubt it" Your claims are a long stream of unsupported speculation. Rather than speculate, we can consult the article. The article mentions that the guidelines were developed with Apple's input. The article sources a couple people who noted that the recent MacBook Pro was mostly unrecycleable. And the "something" which the screen was glued to is the battery and given that batteries are major source of toxic waste, it is hard to imagine how a smaller battery or screen might be a desirable trade-off for the battery's toxic ingredients entering the environment. Edit: re-reading the article, the situation is that the screen is glued to the case and the battery is glued to the case. Effectively the same result: '“If the battery is glued to the case it means you can’t recycle the case and you can’t recycle the battery,” Frisbee said.'
- jws 14y ago
  I'm not inclined to consider the article as especially authoritative. It is mostly echoes from blog posts collected into a story. …guidelines were developed with Apple's input… In what year? Half a decade ago? A decade? You can not simultaneously innovate better manufacturing and make things the same old way. People need to stop being in a glue tizzy. I'm sure that in a recycling context the glue can be undone with either heat or a chisel. And remember that Apple has a plan in place to replace those batteries. I suspect the story we are not seeing is that EPEAT is not willing to update the standard fast enough to adapt to modern manufacturing. And they probably shouldn't. Apple will be secretive until release, and EPEAT should take some time to think about things. Those just aren't going to work together.