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I really miss the days of being able to use pidgin to talk to everyone

by WD-42 2y ago

roflmaostc 2y ago
Haha yeah. Within Pidgin I used ICQ, XMPP (over my own VPS), Skype, Facebook messenger, ... Now I have to use different apps for Signal, Element, Slack, Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, ...
- WD-42 2y ago
  Facebook via xmpp was the last thing Facebook was good for. It was nice to be able to strike up the occasional conversation with an old school friend or acquaintance. It really does feel like everyone is online more than ever yet somehow more isolated.
- luplex 2y ago
  I can recommend beeper! I don't use it for encrypted messengers because I don't want to accidentally leak incoming messages that were sent with the expectation of e2ee. But it's great for catching a few of the odd ones.
- ptman 2y ago
  Beeper (built on matrix) has convenient bridges to lots of services. You can use the hosted service or self-host (https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager) or you can host plain matrix using https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/ https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/
  - aine 2y ago
    "plain matrix" sounds a bit wrong - we put great effort into maintaining numerous of components of the playbook, including bridges, so it has a lot to offer. Alternatively, you can just get a managed server on https://etke.cc https://etke.cc Disclaimer: I'm Aine of etke.cc, and MDAD is our project
    - ptman 2y ago
      I'm sorry, bad choice of words. I didn't mean to imply that it's worse in any way. I use it myself. Uncustomized? Vanilla? Upstream? IIRC Beeper has patched various things.
im3w1l 2y ago
These days I can't even use pidgin for xmpp, because the omemo plugin is too wonky. Now someone I'm sure will say I'm just holding it wrong and that may be so.. but I doesn't work for me despite trying for a reasonable amount of time to get it working. And regarding other protocols I'm too scared these days. Every company is running algorithms looking for deviants to perma-shadow-ban and I just can't risk something like that.
- MattJ100 2y ago
  The problem here is that Pidgin's development didn't manage to keep up with the changing times. Stable branch is 10-15 years behind XMPP features. The developers are working on a Pidgin 3.0 (rewrite?) but that still has quite some way to go. Unfortunately Pidgin was one of the most popular ways to use XMPP back in the day, and this had a knock-on effect on XMPP's reputation as an out-of-date technology. People still install Pidgin today and tell me, yep, XMPP hasn't changed since 2006. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
  - WD-42 2y ago
    Was it that pidgin didn’t keep up with features, or more likely that one by one the major platforms pulled xmpp support to the point where there was no reason for a normal person to use pidgin?
    - shadowgovt 2y ago
      It was both, and part of the reason platforms pulled support is that keeping up with XMPP was bad ROI. You're Facebook. You want to provide an instant messenger you can iterate on quickly. You can put the work into making it XMPP-shaped and working with the community (whatever they means... Are you going to slip ship targets because Pidgin doesn't work as a client for your implementation?). Or you can just write and ship your own service and client at your own pace and not care about any other developer's needs or wants because you're trying to serve Facebook users, not developers.
    - singpolyma3 2y ago
IshKebab 2y ago
Well, most countries have a single instant messaging app (usually WhatsApp) that's dominant now so there's no big need for it I guess.
- darreninthenet 2y ago
  But dominant doesn't mean it's the only one... most of my friends are on WhatsApp, but I use iMessage to talk to my wife (unless it's a group of friends then it's back to WhatsApp), apart from one or two friends who aren't o ln WhatsApp and then I use FB messenger... we have one gaming group with one guy not on FB and one guy not on WhatsApp, so I'm the meatware bridge between them. And then I have people who only use Discord...
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > most of my friends are on WhatsApp, but I use iMessage to talk to my wife [...] apart from one or two friends who aren't o ln WhatsApp [...] As shown in a more visual way: https://xkcd.com/1810/ https://xkcd.com/1810/
  - IshKebab 2y ago
    > But dominant doesn't mean it's the only one It often does. Check out these statistics: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311229/whatsapp-usage-messaging-app-users-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311229/whatsapp-usage-m... This is likely a huge underestimate too. They put UK at 71% but in practice it's used by everyone. You'd be a weirdo not to have WhatsApp in the UK, like not owning a smartphone.
toastercat 2y ago
Man Pidgin used to be excellent for Steam and Facebook Messenger for me. I no longer use Facebook Messenger, but I really miss the Steam plugin (its been busted for years at this point)
rw_grim 2y ago
We're still here and we're getting close to finally getting a pre alpha Pidgin 3 out the door. In the mean time check out https://pidgin.im/plugins https://pidgin.im/plugins for third party plugins that provide at least basic support most of the modern protocols.
- WD-42 2y ago
  I’ve see you stream pidgin 3 development on twitch. Keep up the good work!
veqq 2y ago
Different applications also supported different feature sets. Keeping up with ever newer supersets also stretched many players’ resources too much: https://alexalejandre.com/programming/xmpp-open-messaging-standard/ https://alexalejandre.com/programming/xmpp-open-messaging-st... > A more rigid core standard, actively keeping up with new technology may have delivered XMPP’s federated dream. In reality, each sever supported a different feature set, while lacking common features every other chat app offered. As mobile technology transformed, XMPP stayed still. Pidgin worked on Google Talk, before an XEP brought (necessary) OIDC authentification and those 3rd-party clients couldn’t keep up.

I really miss the days of being able to use pidgin to talk to everyone

by WD-42 2y ago

I really miss the days of being able to use pidgin to talk to everyone

Haha yeah. Within Pidgin I used ICQ, XMPP (over my own VPS), Skype, Facebook messenger, ... Now I have to use different apps for Signal, Element, Slack, Discord, WhatsApp, Telegram, ...

WD-42 2y ago
Facebook via xmpp was the last thing Facebook was good for. It was nice to be able to strike up the occasional conversation with an old school friend or acquaintance. It really does feel like everyone is online more than ever yet somehow more isolated.
luplex 2y ago
I can recommend beeper! I don't use it for encrypted messengers because I don't want to accidentally leak incoming messages that were sent with the expectation of e2ee. But it's great for catching a few of the odd ones.
ptman 2y ago
Beeper (built on matrix) has convenient bridges to lots of services. You can use the hosted service or self-host (https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager https://github.com/beeper/bridge-manager) or you can host plain matrix using https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/ https://github.com/spantaleev/matrix-docker-ansible-deploy/
- aine 2y ago
  "plain matrix" sounds a bit wrong - we put great effort into maintaining numerous of components of the playbook, including bridges, so it has a lot to offer. Alternatively, you can just get a managed server on https://etke.cc https://etke.cc Disclaimer: I'm Aine of etke.cc, and MDAD is our project
  - ptman 2y ago
    I'm sorry, bad choice of words. I didn't mean to imply that it's worse in any way. I use it myself. Uncustomized? Vanilla? Upstream? IIRC Beeper has patched various things.

im3w1l 2y ago

These days I can't even use pidgin for xmpp, because the omemo plugin is too wonky. Now someone I'm sure will say I'm just holding it wrong and that may be so.. but I doesn't work for me despite trying for a reasonable amount of time to get it working. And regarding other protocols I'm too scared these days. Every company is running algorithms looking for deviants to perma-shadow-ban and I just can't risk something like that.

MattJ100 2y ago
The problem here is that Pidgin's development didn't manage to keep up with the changing times. Stable branch is 10-15 years behind XMPP features. The developers are working on a Pidgin 3.0 (rewrite?) but that still has quite some way to go. Unfortunately Pidgin was one of the most popular ways to use XMPP back in the day, and this had a knock-on effect on XMPP's reputation as an out-of-date technology. People still install Pidgin today and tell me, yep, XMPP hasn't changed since 2006. Which couldn't be further from the truth.
- WD-42 2y ago
  Was it that pidgin didn’t keep up with features, or more likely that one by one the major platforms pulled xmpp support to the point where there was no reason for a normal person to use pidgin?
  - shadowgovt 2y ago
    It was both, and part of the reason platforms pulled support is that keeping up with XMPP was bad ROI. You're Facebook. You want to provide an instant messenger you can iterate on quickly. You can put the work into making it XMPP-shaped and working with the community (whatever they means... Are you going to slip ship targets because Pidgin doesn't work as a client for your implementation?). Or you can just write and ship your own service and client at your own pace and not care about any other developer's needs or wants because you're trying to serve Facebook users, not developers.
  - singpolyma3 2y ago

IshKebab 2y ago

Well, most countries have a single instant messaging app (usually WhatsApp) that's dominant now so there's no big need for it I guess.

darreninthenet 2y ago
But dominant doesn't mean it's the only one... most of my friends are on WhatsApp, but I use iMessage to talk to my wife (unless it's a group of friends then it's back to WhatsApp), apart from one or two friends who aren't o ln WhatsApp and then I use FB messenger... we have one gaming group with one guy not on FB and one guy not on WhatsApp, so I'm the meatware bridge between them. And then I have people who only use Discord...
- cesarb 2y ago
  > most of my friends are on WhatsApp, but I use iMessage to talk to my wife [...] apart from one or two friends who aren't o ln WhatsApp [...] As shown in a more visual way: https://xkcd.com/1810/ https://xkcd.com/1810/
- IshKebab 2y ago
  > But dominant doesn't mean it's the only one It often does. Check out these statistics: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311229/whatsapp-usage-messaging-app-users-by-country/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1311229/whatsapp-usage-m... This is likely a huge underestimate too. They put UK at 71% but in practice it's used by everyone. You'd be a weirdo not to have WhatsApp in the UK, like not owning a smartphone.

toastercat 2y ago

Man Pidgin used to be excellent for Steam and Facebook Messenger for me. I no longer use Facebook Messenger, but I really miss the Steam plugin (its been busted for years at this point)

rw_grim 2y ago

We're still here and we're getting close to finally getting a pre alpha Pidgin 3 out the door. In the mean time check out https://pidgin.im/plugins https://pidgin.im/plugins for third party plugins that provide at least basic support most of the modern protocols.

WD-42 2y ago
I’ve see you stream pidgin 3 development on twitch. Keep up the good work!

veqq 2y ago

Different applications also supported different feature sets. Keeping up with ever newer supersets also stretched many players’ resources too much: https://alexalejandre.com/programming/xmpp-open-messaging-standard/ https://alexalejandre.com/programming/xmpp-open-messaging-st... > A more rigid core standard, actively keeping up with new technology may have delivered XMPP’s federated dream. In reality, each sever supported a different feature set, while lacking common features every other chat app offered. As mobile technology transformed, XMPP stayed still. Pidgin worked on Google Talk, before an XEP brought (necessary) OIDC authentification and those 3rd-party clients couldn’t keep up.