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AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D Linux Performance: Zen 5 With 3D V-Cache
- antisthenes 2y ago9800X3D looks like an all-around winner, so if you don't mind spending $500 on just the CPU, I don't see why anyone would get anything else.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y agoAll-around winner in what? For $500 you can get a lot more cores. All-around winning, $500, 8 cores makes no sense. This thing has a premium gaming price tag because there is nothing close to it other than their own 7800X3D.
- bhouston 2y agoWhat would you suggest instead? It is pretty competitive on the Multi-Core rating: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8633320 https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8633320 compared to other CPUs: https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks
- jandrese 2y agoThe benchmarks in the article suggest that more cores are largely wasted on real world applications.
- ThatMedicIsASpy 2y agoYes so buy according to your needs? 8 cores do not cost $500.
- behringer 2y agoThey do when those cores are 2 to 4 times faster than the rest.
- sliken 2y agoIn theory, yes. But in the real world the bottleneck of the same 128 bit wide memory, interface that's been popular way back since the time of dual core chips. Less cache misses (on popular workloads) helps decrease power and increase performance enough that few things benefit from 12-16 cores. Thus the M3 max (with a 512 bit wide memory system) has a class leading single core and multi-core scores.
- 0xQSL 2y agoI'm not so sure about memory actually being the bottleneck for these 8 core parts. If memory bandwidth is the bottleneck this should show up in benchmarks with higher dram clocks. I can't find any good application benchmarks, but computerbase.de did it for gaming with 7800MHz vs 6000MHz and didn't find much of a difference [1] The apple chips are APUs and need a lot of their memory bandwidth for the gpu. Are there any good resources on how much of this bandwidth is actually used in common cpu workloads? Can the CPU even max out half of the 512bit bus? [1] https://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-test.90151/seite-6#abschnitt_ramoc_ddr57800 https://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/amd-ryzen-7-...
- wmf 2y agoFor AMD I think Infinity Fabric is the bottleneck so increasing memory clock without increasing IF clock does nothing. And it's also possible that 8 cores with massive cache simply don't need more bandwidth.
- sliken 2y agoMy understanding is the single CCD chips (like the 9800x3d) have 2 IF links, while the dual CCD chips (like the 9950x) have 1. Keep in mind these CCDs are shared with turin (12 channel), threadripper pro (8 channel), siena (6 channel), threadripper (4 channel). The higher CCD configurations have 1 IF link per chip, the lower have 2 IF links per chip. Presumably AMD would bother with the 2 IF link chips unless it helped.
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- Hikikomori 2y agoCores or "cores"?
- LorenDB 2y agoAs a C++ programmer, I just bought a 9900X for my first PC build. Sure, it won't game as well, but I like fast compile times, and the 9900X is on sale for $380 right now. That's $100 cheaper than the 9800X3D launch price.
- jeffbee 2y agoYeah, these Zen 5 are killer for that kind of workload. I also replaced my workstation with a 9900-series CPU since my Intel 14900K fried itself, and I am very pleased with every aspect, except idle power consumption which is a minor drawback. It looks like the X3D is no better than the 9900X for non-game single-threaded workloads like browsers, and it's much worse than the 12 or 16 core parts in terms of overall throughput, so for a non-gamer the plain X seems much better than the X3D.
- mdre 2y agoWhat's your idle power consumption for AMD vs Intel if you don't mind me asking? I'm getting avg 125W for my 13900k build, measured at the wall and it mildly bugs me when I think of it, I thought it'd be closer to 80. And power is very expensive where I live now.
- jeffbee 2y agoIf you are getting 125W at the wall on a PC at idle, your machine or operating system is extremely broken, or you are running atmosphere physics simulations all the time. The SoC on my Intel box typically drew < 1W as measured by RAPL. The 9950X draws about 18W measured the same way. Because of platform overhead the difference in terms of ratio is not that large but the Ryzen system is drawing about 40W at the wall when it's just sitting there.
- zokier 2y agoDiscrete gpu can easily add 20-40w of idle power draw, so that's something to keep in mind. I believe that 60ish watts is pretty typical idle consumption for desktop system, Ryzens typically having 10w higher idle draw than Intel. Some random reviews with whole system idle measurements: https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-processor-review?page=5 https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d-processo... https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/23.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/23.ht...
- Wytwwww 2y agoIntel can still be kind of faster for "productivity" stuff? At least if you are willing to pay for the >8000 MHz CUDIMMs (which i don't think AMD even supports at full speed?) which can result in pretty impressive performance. Of course the value/price is probably not great...
- Night_Thastus 2y agoNice to actually have a decent release this generation of CPUs. The rest of Zen5 was maybe a 5% bump on average, and Intel's new series actually regressed in performance compared to 14th gen. Seems like the Zen5X3D's will be the only good parts this time around.
- 13hunteo 2y agoTo cut Intel some slack, this latest version overhauls their old architecture, and they were fairly upfront about the lack of development in performance in this generation. The idea is the new platform will allow for better development in future, while improving efficiency fairly significantly.
- qzw 2y agoAlso nice to be able to boast a bigger uplift in the following gen due to regressing this one! But they definitely did need to get their efficiency under control since their parts were turning into fairly decent personal heating units.
- Night_Thastus 2y agoFrom a consumer standpoint - this doesn't matter. You can't buy that future product that may exist. You can only choose whether to buy the current product or not. And right now, that product is bad. I certainly hope the next generation is a massive bump for Intel, but we'll see if that's the case.
- mmaniac 2y agoAdding onto that, the roadmap to Intel's next generation isn't exactly clear. Arrow Lake Refresh would have seemingly bumped core counts healthily, but that's cancelled now. I don't believe that it's cancelled because its successor is ahead of schedule.
- fweimer 2y agoI think the new T-equivalent CPU could be very interesting if Intel releases one. Those variants are optimized for 35W TDP, and they can be used for building high-performance fanless systems that can sustain their performance for quite some time. The lower power requirements for Arrow Lake might be a really good match there.
- globnomulous 2y agoSharing links from websites with intrusive video advertisements should be prohibited. The websites should be banned, and those who share links to them should receive a paddling.
- sliken 2y agoOr maybe you should follow the recommendations of various government agencies (including the FBI) and install an ad blocker.
- rjsw 2y agoThe last time I viewed this particular website it detected the adblocker and complained that I was depriving the owner of income.
- beeboop 2y agoublock origin and annoyance filters works fine for me
- rjsw 2y agoI was using uBlock origin. Had also seen how he had editorialized some of my mailing list posts and I felt that I would be guilty of Gell-Mann amnesia if I carried on reading the site.
- sliken 2y agoI do wish I could pay $25 a month for my web content to be ad free. Portioned out to websites I actually spent time reading.
- pizza234 2y agoThis is precisely what Scroll (1) used to do. It seems it didn't end up well, unfortunately. (1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_(web_service) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scroll_(web_service)
- nisten 2y agoI am surprised at how much this thing is just straight up crushing it with just 8 cores. I think it topping the machine learning benchmarks has to do with having only 8 cores to share the 96MB of L3 cache, which ends up having a ratio of 1core having 1MBL2 + 12MB L3 which is huge, that means EACH THREAD has more cache than i.e the entire nvidia 3090 (6mb l2 total), and this ends up taking FULL advantage of the extra silicon of various avx extensions.
- BeefWellington 2y agoI'm curious to see if AMD will release a 9950X3D this time around. I can foresee that kind of CPU dominating everything else across most workloads given how good this 8-core is holding up against CPUs with double or more cores.
- Tuna-Fish 2y agoYes, it's supposedly coming early next year.
- jsheard 2y agoI think the current rumor is that only one of the chiplets will have the extra cache though, so you'll have 8 cores with the big cache and 8 cores with the normal cache.
- qzw 2y agoIf they make one with extra cache on both CCDs, it would probably get some kind of AI branding and be at a significantly higher price point. Current games would hardly benefit from 16 cores all with that much cache.
- scheeseman486 2y agoThe main benefit is that it's a no-compromise product. High single thread performance for games and there's more of those cores for productivity, it'd be the best workstation CPU and the best gaming CPU in one package.
- drumhead 2y agoJust seen the figures, it's ridiculously good. The gap over it's competition is staggering. I hope the Intel hubris doesn't set in at Amd, especially with the ARM pack snapping at their heels.
- aurareturn 2y agohttps://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/images/efficiency-gaming.png https://tpucdn.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/images/efficie... Raw gaming performance increase is good but its gaming efficiency seems to have taken a dip compared to 7800X3D. So AMD chose to decrease efficiency to get more performance this generation. Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/23.html https://www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-9800x3d/23.ht...
- Numerlor 2y agoThe efficiency is only worse because the CPU can use the power without burning itself up unlike the last generation's X3D. And efficiency is always better at lower clocks. You can get this generation's efficiency uplift by limiting its power to the levels where last generation's CPU started throttling to keep its 89C Tjmax, but that will inevitably also limit the frequency that's the main performance uplift for the CPU For comparison on how limited last gen's X3D was wrt power, tom's hardware has it on 71W with all core AVX, while my 7600X with 2 fewer cores consumes up to 130W
- aurareturn 2y agoIf I can summarize what you wrote: Same IPC gain as normal Zen5 but more power can be drawn to increase performance due to moving the cache chiplet to the bottom.
- wtallis 2y agoThe previous 3D cache solutions were not just limited thermally, but also the cache chiplet could not tolerate the high voltages that AMD's CPU cores use at high frequencies. Even with excellent cooling, you weren't going to get a 7800X3D or 5800X3D to match frequencies with the non-3D parts. (This might have been less of a problem if AMD could put the extra cache on a different power rail, but that's hard to retrofit into an existing CPU socket.) This new cache chiplet still has a lower voltage limit than the CPU cores, but it's not as big a disparity.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
- whalesalad 2y agoThe last Intel machine I will ever build was my 13900K, primarily because I liked the fact that I could use cheaper DDR4 memory. Next rig and everything for the forseeable future will be AMD. I've been a fanboy since the Athlon XP days - took a detour for a bit - but can't wait to get back.
- TacticalCoder 2y ago> I've been a fanboy since the Athlon XP days - took a detour for a bit - but can't wait to get back. Same. But already built a 3700X and then a 7700X. I've got this feeling the wife she's gonna upgrade her 3700X to a 7700X soon, meaning I'll get build a 9000 series AMD!
- moffkalast 2y agoEven if Intel wasn't chugging so badly right now, their recent handling of the overvoltage and oxidation fiasco where they only thought about covering their asses instead of working the problem would leave me with a pretty disgusting taste in my mouth if I bought anything Intel for the foreseeable future. Customer relations should mean something, just look at Noctua.
- TacticalCoder 2y agoThe results for decompression, but no compression, are all surprisingly bad compared to other benchmarks, how comes? For example 7-zip decompression performs worse than my 7700X (84 K mips vs 93 K mips on my 7700X). Other decompression benchs are equally depressing. But compression performs as expected (as much as 30% faster than my 7700X). What can explain those disappointing results but only on decompression?
- kevingadd 2y agoModern decompression is compute-bound typically (AFAIK), not memory-bound. It is in fact common to use compression as a workaround for memory-bound workloads to turn them into compute-bound ones.
- heraldgeezer 2y agoKing CPU. Time to build a new desktop PC!
- pawelduda 2y agoSuch a gap in these gaming benchmarks.. AMD killing it
- Decabytes 2y agoIt’s frustrating how I can get a 7950x3d and 32 gb of ram for less than the price of a RTX 4080, but it underperforms poorly vs a graphics card