6 ms·

Give me a single instance of a Democrat criticizing men in general, I'll give you 10 of Trump/Vance justifying rape or abuse or pedophilia

philistine 2y ago
Don’t bother. It only goes so far as the democrats are demonizing men but there are no examples. The fact is the democrats did not run on demonizing men, the republicans ran on the democrats demonizing men.
- code_runner 2y ago
  And that’s why you have to appeal to them all the more. You have to be able to understand and counteract messaging like this. Proof is in the pudding
  - tekknik 2y ago
    do you remember a time when the republicans were even keeled and tempered and the democrats kept calling them hitler, nazis, facists, and so on? I certainly remember. The only way to counter this message is to stop with the hate speech. Like the parent above said. Even independents are tired of it now. Of course likely the left will again ignore the warnings and continue on so I’m quite anxious to see what 2026 and 2028 bring.
    - philistine 2y ago
      I have no clue what you're talking about? Did Gore call Bush a fascist? Obama? Ultimately, I see the world this way: people want good things for others. Most people who voted for Trump aren't directly fascists. Trump himself I wouldn't even qualify as a fascist. But he espouses fascistic policies. Immigrants polluting the blood of America, stuff like that, those are fascist ways of talking about immigration. So at some point we have to talk about things, and denounce them. And no, Trump himself is not Mussolini. But the shortcut of calling him a fascist is ultimately okay. Same thing with racisms. Most people aren't fundamentally racist, but they'll espouse racist opinions. So they're racist.
      - tekknik 2y ago
        if you believe the left hasn’t ramped up the vitriol against their supposed enemies then you’re living under a rock. have you already forgotten this same hatred almost got Trump shot twice? the rest of us haven’t.
        sofixa 2y ago
        Trump is literally a convicted rapist. Mounted an insurrection. Pedophile. Serial cheater. Mocked disabled people and veterans. Literally stole money from a children's cancer charity. You can literally, no exaggeration, pull out tens of those indisputable facts, which in a normal world, would be immediately disqualifying. You wouldn't hire someone who has said any of the millions of things he has said. Do you remember grab them by the pussy? Would you be friends, or hire, or tolerate anyone speaking like that? Pointing them out and how fundamentally unsuited that man is for any job, let alone the presidency of any country, is not "hatred". If you have a problem with people being shot at, take this up with your local representative to get better controls on who can acquire a weapon.
        tekknik 2y ago
        > Trump is literally a convicted rapist. Stopping here because this is a blatant lie. He was NOT convicted of rape but instead sexual abuse. They are not the same and if you need further evidence then consult a lawyer. Remember that disinformation the left claimed the right was spreading? guess what you’re doing now?
        sofixa 2y ago
        Oh, my deepest apologies. He's not a convicted rapist, only a convicted sexual abuser. Also a close associate and friend to a known pedophile ringleader, so very highly probably a rapist and child molester too. Does rape vs sexual abuse change much in your view? Especially when there's also him bragging about grabbing them right by the pussy.
        2y ago
    - code_runner 2y ago
      I don't know of a time in recent memory with "even keeled" republicans (at least beyond the Primary). Romney and McCain would be the last I'm aware of. I'm confident that I've heard both sides saying exactly what you're saying though... and I remember many times that "the end of democracy" was around the corner.... and if such-and-such wins a race war is going to break out etc. The rhetoric and post-election-dooming is always the same regardless of which side wins. I pretty firmly believe that things like the economy, incumbents tendency to remain in power, and a party switch after hitting the term-limit are the biggest factors. What people actually say once the primaries are over just doesn't matter to most people. People will cherry-pick what they want to hear.
      - tekknik 2y ago
        If you’re on Romney and McCain then you’re showing your age. Look back further.
- wvh 2y ago
  Exactly. If, as a non-American who is non-political and didn't follow the elections at all, that's the only thing that I've heard, I guess there's your problem (assuming you lean democrat). What I wonder as a complete outsider: how bad must the image of "the left" be that a shady right-wing populist megalomaniac businessman with sexist tendencies wins the election a second time? Are the democrats associated with a handful of radicals and idealistic goals that don't apply to the silent majority, or is there a perception that they can't handle the current political and economical challenges?
MrHamburger 2y ago
Youtuber ShoeOnHead has called the lack of care for young men might bite the DNC during elections. 6 days ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M You have many examples of left not being really nice towards men in the video and in other videos on her channel.
- thrance 2y ago
  That's not an example. Give me a policy, or at least a promise of a policy, literally anything coming from a democrat's mouth that would prove that the left is actually antagonizing men as a group. Meanwhile, Trump has said that you should grab them by the P-word, Vance has criticized "childless cat ladies" as if being a single woman should be a crime. I can go on and on, it really is that simple.
  - tekknik 2y ago
    This lack of evidence thing is old and still doesn’t work. I certainly remember hateful women lambasting men, including myself, for things like saying a woman is attractive. Also Obama just said: "[P]art of it makes me think, and I’m speaking to men directly… that, well, you just aren’t feeling the idea of having a woman as president, and you’re coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for that." I wonder what he meant? That men are sexist because we don’t want a woman president? Or maybe that they wouldn’t vote because they’re heading to the grocery store or something?
    - thrance 2y ago
      Kamala being a woman absolutely had a negative impact on her results. That is probably not the main reason she lost though. Again, do you have any real proof that the left is systematically antagonizing men, or can you only provide anecdotal evidence? It's really easy to find instances of right-wing politicans or pundits saying abhorrent things about women as a group (refer to my previous comment), but no one seems to care. On the other hand Obama makes vague implications that sexist bias may negatively influence their candidates and now half the country hates men.
randomdata 2y ago
From my outsider (non-American) male perspective, I never heard anything from the Democrats. Somehow I ended up hearing a whole lot from the Republicans, without looking for it (or wanting it!). Whatever they did, they seemed to do a better job getting into the channels where men are found. So while I expect the Democrats haven't criticized men, I can understand how it is easy to buy into the rumours when that is all you have to go on.
wvh 2y ago
I'm not American. This is not a moral or political statement. I'm pointing out you (as in "the left") seem to be losing men. This costs you support, and well, victory. Clearly enough people felt "the left" were not on their side. I can't speak about justifying rape or abuse or pedophilia or reproductive rights or religion or immigration or not being able to afford food. I don't live in a (that) polarised two-party system country. Though I fear we're all sort of heading that way for one reason or another...
- thrance 2y ago
  I'm not American either, but I don't believe the problem is with the American "left" here. If half of America has really been brainwashed into thinking Harris is a communist, I'm afraid this country is lost. If anything, my advice to democrats would be to start playing "dirtier", I haven't seen anyone take advantage of the recent links established between Epstein and Trump, for example.
  - wvh 2y ago
    Maybe you're right, and that makes me sad.
  - randomdata 2y ago
    > If half of America has really been brainwashed into thinking Harris is a communist Well, are they wrong? Once you get past the stupid rehtoric associated with the word, the goal of communists is to usher in an age of post-scarcity. The United States is clearly leading that charge. Food production is the closest thing we have to post-scarcity, and that's almost entirely thanks to the efforts of US innovation. I even dare say that US innovation in general is doing more for bringing us closer to post-scarcity than anything else seen in the world. Harris seems/seemed on board to see that continue. Trump may be too. He appears to also stand behind American innovation. Although, perhaps to the determinant of innovation elsewhere, which does set him apart from Harris, and, to be fair, you might argue that leaves him unaligned with the communist intention.
    - sofixa 2y ago
slothtrop 2y ago
I detect a double-standard among Republicans in this regard, but at any rate, I think this is a case of culture-war/DEI resentment and conflating people on Twitter with the DNC. And here they'll usually point to some policy or other that gives credence to some of that (DEI for federal workers or something), but it's a weak connection.
Jcampuzano2 2y ago
I think people don't realize that it doesn't need to be directly said by a politician to create sentiment. If you look at the online sentiment which greatly affects young voters, it is very much anti-men in general. In fact you even have instances of this being seen in popular culture entertainment and slipping into mainstream at times. Especially for CIS white males. And guess which population overwhelmingly both voted for Trump, but also gained voters for the Trump camp? Men. Anti-male rhetoric is at an all time high, and has given rise to male spaces being dominated by accordingly anti-female rhetoric. This is in part what the parent comments are mentioning. That many of the most outspoke people for Dems (i.e not necessarily politicians themselves) are women who just entirely dismissed even trying to capture male voters who were on the fence. Yes, I get that it is difficult to resonate with people who vote in favor of taking away womens rights, but the problem is that you just aren't going to win if you don't capture at least some of those voters.
- thrance 2y ago
  I don't dispute that a lot of republican voters bought into the propaganda that dems were anti-men, but what are the democrats supposed to do? This is completely baseless. I can't recall a single mainstream liberal figure having problematic words on men as a group. Republican speakers on the other hand spew non-stop hate toward every minority I could name and no one cares. If the median voters can't see that (wether he lives in a bubble or simply refuses to acknowledge it), then this country is fucked.

philistine 2y ago

Don’t bother. It only goes so far as the democrats are demonizing men but there are no examples. The fact is the democrats did not run on demonizing men, the republicans ran on the democrats demonizing men.

code_runner 2y ago
And that’s why you have to appeal to them all the more. You have to be able to understand and counteract messaging like this. Proof is in the pudding
- tekknik 2y ago
  do you remember a time when the republicans were even keeled and tempered and the democrats kept calling them hitler, nazis, facists, and so on? I certainly remember. The only way to counter this message is to stop with the hate speech. Like the parent above said. Even independents are tired of it now. Of course likely the left will again ignore the warnings and continue on so I’m quite anxious to see what 2026 and 2028 bring.
  - philistine 2y ago
    I have no clue what you're talking about? Did Gore call Bush a fascist? Obama? Ultimately, I see the world this way: people want good things for others. Most people who voted for Trump aren't directly fascists. Trump himself I wouldn't even qualify as a fascist. But he espouses fascistic policies. Immigrants polluting the blood of America, stuff like that, those are fascist ways of talking about immigration. So at some point we have to talk about things, and denounce them. And no, Trump himself is not Mussolini. But the shortcut of calling him a fascist is ultimately okay. Same thing with racisms. Most people aren't fundamentally racist, but they'll espouse racist opinions. So they're racist.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      if you believe the left hasn’t ramped up the vitriol against their supposed enemies then you’re living under a rock. have you already forgotten this same hatred almost got Trump shot twice? the rest of us haven’t.
      - sofixa 2y ago
        Trump is literally a convicted rapist. Mounted an insurrection. Pedophile. Serial cheater. Mocked disabled people and veterans. Literally stole money from a children's cancer charity. You can literally, no exaggeration, pull out tens of those indisputable facts, which in a normal world, would be immediately disqualifying. You wouldn't hire someone who has said any of the millions of things he has said. Do you remember grab them by the pussy? Would you be friends, or hire, or tolerate anyone speaking like that? Pointing them out and how fundamentally unsuited that man is for any job, let alone the presidency of any country, is not "hatred". If you have a problem with people being shot at, take this up with your local representative to get better controls on who can acquire a weapon.
        tekknik 2y ago
        > Trump is literally a convicted rapist. Stopping here because this is a blatant lie. He was NOT convicted of rape but instead sexual abuse. They are not the same and if you need further evidence then consult a lawyer. Remember that disinformation the left claimed the right was spreading? guess what you’re doing now?
        sofixa 2y ago
        Oh, my deepest apologies. He's not a convicted rapist, only a convicted sexual abuser. Also a close associate and friend to a known pedophile ringleader, so very highly probably a rapist and child molester too. Does rape vs sexual abuse change much in your view? Especially when there's also him bragging about grabbing them right by the pussy.
        2y ago
  - code_runner 2y ago
    I don't know of a time in recent memory with "even keeled" republicans (at least beyond the Primary). Romney and McCain would be the last I'm aware of. I'm confident that I've heard both sides saying exactly what you're saying though... and I remember many times that "the end of democracy" was around the corner.... and if such-and-such wins a race war is going to break out etc. The rhetoric and post-election-dooming is always the same regardless of which side wins. I pretty firmly believe that things like the economy, incumbents tendency to remain in power, and a party switch after hitting the term-limit are the biggest factors. What people actually say once the primaries are over just doesn't matter to most people. People will cherry-pick what they want to hear.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      If you’re on Romney and McCain then you’re showing your age. Look back further.
wvh 2y ago
Exactly. If, as a non-American who is non-political and didn't follow the elections at all, that's the only thing that I've heard, I guess there's your problem (assuming you lean democrat). What I wonder as a complete outsider: how bad must the image of "the left" be that a shady right-wing populist megalomaniac businessman with sexist tendencies wins the election a second time? Are the democrats associated with a handful of radicals and idealistic goals that don't apply to the silent majority, or is there a perception that they can't handle the current political and economical challenges?

MrHamburger 2y ago

Youtuber ShoeOnHead has called the lack of care for young men might bite the DNC during elections. 6 days ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSw04BwQy4M You have many examples of left not being really nice towards men in the video and in other videos on her channel.

thrance 2y ago
That's not an example. Give me a policy, or at least a promise of a policy, literally anything coming from a democrat's mouth that would prove that the left is actually antagonizing men as a group. Meanwhile, Trump has said that you should grab them by the P-word, Vance has criticized "childless cat ladies" as if being a single woman should be a crime. I can go on and on, it really is that simple.
- tekknik 2y ago
  This lack of evidence thing is old and still doesn’t work. I certainly remember hateful women lambasting men, including myself, for things like saying a woman is attractive. Also Obama just said: "[P]art of it makes me think, and I’m speaking to men directly… that, well, you just aren’t feeling the idea of having a woman as president, and you’re coming up with other alternatives and other reasons for that." I wonder what he meant? That men are sexist because we don’t want a woman president? Or maybe that they wouldn’t vote because they’re heading to the grocery store or something?
  - thrance 2y ago
    Kamala being a woman absolutely had a negative impact on her results. That is probably not the main reason she lost though. Again, do you have any real proof that the left is systematically antagonizing men, or can you only provide anecdotal evidence? It's really easy to find instances of right-wing politicans or pundits saying abhorrent things about women as a group (refer to my previous comment), but no one seems to care. On the other hand Obama makes vague implications that sexist bias may negatively influence their candidates and now half the country hates men.

randomdata 2y ago

From my outsider (non-American) male perspective, I never heard anything from the Democrats. Somehow I ended up hearing a whole lot from the Republicans, without looking for it (or wanting it!). Whatever they did, they seemed to do a better job getting into the channels where men are found. So while I expect the Democrats haven't criticized men, I can understand how it is easy to buy into the rumours when that is all you have to go on.

wvh 2y ago

I'm not American. This is not a moral or political statement. I'm pointing out you (as in "the left") seem to be losing men. This costs you support, and well, victory. Clearly enough people felt "the left" were not on their side. I can't speak about justifying rape or abuse or pedophilia or reproductive rights or religion or immigration or not being able to afford food. I don't live in a (that) polarised two-party system country. Though I fear we're all sort of heading that way for one reason or another...

thrance 2y ago
I'm not American either, but I don't believe the problem is with the American "left" here. If half of America has really been brainwashed into thinking Harris is a communist, I'm afraid this country is lost. If anything, my advice to democrats would be to start playing "dirtier", I haven't seen anyone take advantage of the recent links established between Epstein and Trump, for example.
- wvh 2y ago
  Maybe you're right, and that makes me sad.
- randomdata 2y ago
  > If half of America has really been brainwashed into thinking Harris is a communist Well, are they wrong? Once you get past the stupid rehtoric associated with the word, the goal of communists is to usher in an age of post-scarcity. The United States is clearly leading that charge. Food production is the closest thing we have to post-scarcity, and that's almost entirely thanks to the efforts of US innovation. I even dare say that US innovation in general is doing more for bringing us closer to post-scarcity than anything else seen in the world. Harris seems/seemed on board to see that continue. Trump may be too. He appears to also stand behind American innovation. Although, perhaps to the determinant of innovation elsewhere, which does set him apart from Harris, and, to be fair, you might argue that leaves him unaligned with the communist intention.
  - sofixa 2y ago

slothtrop 2y ago

I detect a double-standard among Republicans in this regard, but at any rate, I think this is a case of culture-war/DEI resentment and conflating people on Twitter with the DNC. And here they'll usually point to some policy or other that gives credence to some of that (DEI for federal workers or something), but it's a weak connection.

Jcampuzano2 2y ago

I think people don't realize that it doesn't need to be directly said by a politician to create sentiment. If you look at the online sentiment which greatly affects young voters, it is very much anti-men in general. In fact you even have instances of this being seen in popular culture entertainment and slipping into mainstream at times. Especially for CIS white males. And guess which population overwhelmingly both voted for Trump, but also gained voters for the Trump camp? Men. Anti-male rhetoric is at an all time high, and has given rise to male spaces being dominated by accordingly anti-female rhetoric. This is in part what the parent comments are mentioning. That many of the most outspoke people for Dems (i.e not necessarily politicians themselves) are women who just entirely dismissed even trying to capture male voters who were on the fence. Yes, I get that it is difficult to resonate with people who vote in favor of taking away womens rights, but the problem is that you just aren't going to win if you don't capture at least some of those voters.

thrance 2y ago
I don't dispute that a lot of republican voters bought into the propaganda that dems were anti-men, but what are the democrats supposed to do? This is completely baseless. I can't recall a single mainstream liberal figure having problematic words on men as a group. Republican speakers on the other hand spew non-stop hate toward every minority I could name and no one cares. If the median voters can't see that (wether he lives in a bubble or simply refuses to acknowledge it), then this country is fucked.