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I am also a member of the union at NPR, on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. Happy to answer any questions. I encourage everyone to

• haccount 2y ago
  I would recommend to just get your news elsewhere, forever. Like just ask chatgpt or your dog to make something up that sounds contemporary and newsy. Same quality level.
• khana 2y ago
  [dead]
• immibis 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • dkindler 2y ago
    [flagged]
    • infecto 2y ago
      It does, you don't have enough karma for it though. The threshold is/was 500.
    • ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      It does, but I think it only appears after you reach a certain karma level.
    • inglor_cz 2y ago
      It has, but not for newbies or people without a history of productive/popular comments. Edit: interesting that this factoid attracted a downvote. It is factually true and doesn't indicate any personal opinion on the state of things.
    • nine_k 2y ago
      /* It does, as soon as your karma reaches 500 or something. A comment voted down sufficiently enough becomes "dead". But again, with sufficient karma you can vouch for a comment and resurrect it from the dead, thus preventing e.g. effects of a brigade attack. There are several more automatic preventive tools. HN is slightly less simple than it looks; maybe this is one of the secrets why it's still alive and relevant after 17 years online. */
      • dkindler 2y ago
        Ah, that's pretty neat actually
  • nailer 2y ago
    You can easily compare the civilian/combatant death ratio in the Israel / Hamas conflict to any other recent war, or alternatively look at the population growth of Gaza since Israel has left, to confirm this is false. NYT also covered the fake hospital story and had to apologise regarding it: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/10/new-york-times-gaza-hospital-story?redirectURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vanityfair.com%2Fnews%2F2023%2F10%2Fnew-york-times-gaza-hospital-story https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/10/new-york-times-gaza-...
    • immibis 2y ago
      > You can easily compare the civilian/combatant death ratio in the Israel / Hamas conflict to any other recent war, or alternatively look at the population growth of Gaza since Israel has left, to confirm this is false. I'm not understanding how the population of Gaza is supposed to disprove the fact that the NYT made up fake stories. Please enlighten me?
      • nailer 2y ago
        The things being disproven are the genocide claim and the claim of the New York Times being biased towards Israel.
• corndoge 2y ago
  They're striking against return to office? I work from home and value it but it never would occur to me to strike for that. I view it as a privilege and not a right. Almost everyone in the world has to go on location for their jobs. I am curious why it is so important to NYT workers in particular that they would strike over it - is there something particularly bad about the location?
  • nine_k 2y ago
    A privilege is given, a right is taken. If enough people fight for the recognition of their need and desire to work from home, enough to enshrine it in some legal norms or at least in widely accepted and expected practices in the industry, WFH may become a right. This is how 40-hour work weeks became a right, or collective bargaining became a right, etc.
    • randomdata 2y ago
      > This is how 40-hour work weeks became a right It became a standard in the US, but is not a right. And while the idea of the 40-hour work week did, indeed, come from labour groups, it was the Great Depression needing effort to try and compel businesses to hire more workers, not the fight of workers, that pushed to see it become a standard.
      • nine_k 2y ago
        That might be the final chord, but the tune started back in the 18th century, as a long struggle: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day_movement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day_movement It wasn't a sudden bout of benevolnce from the FDR administration, or from anyone in the management or government.
        • randomdata 2y ago
          > It wasn't a sudden bout of benevolnce from the FDR administration Was there something to suggest it was? Getting workers back working isn't for the benefit of workers.
• bloomingkales 2y ago
  Pretty sure the NYT has entire contributors and foreign correspondents working remotely, forever. Not in a position to help you guys in any way, but fight the good fight against the mythology of the grand collaborative campfire that apparently happens in-office.
• conartist6 2y ago
  I rely on them to know what is going on, and tomorrow is the biggest day of every four years for needing to know what the heck is going on. I find your suggestion that I should consider the trust I've built with their news division destroyed on this day of all days ridiculous and irresponsible, especially given the fact that the timing of the strike was chosen to hurt me extremely badly if I should feel morally obligated to follow your advice
  • dbalatero 2y ago
    Times leadership knew this was coming and dragged their feet on negotiating.
    • conartist6 2y ago
      I don't doubt it. While I wholeheartedly support their legal right to organize, I am not required to celebrate at the cynicism of attempting to undermine faith in democracy to win a better job
      • soco 2y ago
        I'm not sure how organizing a strike is undermining the faith in democracy, looks to me rather the other way around.
      • dbalatero 2y ago
        > I am not required to celebrate at the cynicism of attempting to undermine faith in democracy to win a better job You're being melodramatic. There are piles of news sources to choose from, absent NYT. And that assumes it falls over due to the strike, although it seems likely they need workers on hand to do ops.
        • conartist6 2y ago
          I am being a bit melodramatic, yes. My working assumption is that the services they offer are critical enough that management will somehow make sure they stand up, because it is their obligation to me as their customer to do so. But with there being such a strong probability that there will be coordinated far-right attempts to undermine faith in our system of elections tomorrow, I do really do think of tomorrow as a kind of holy day for democracy that is not acceptable to use as bargaining chip.
• 7thpower 2y ago
  [flagged]
  • Ekaros 2y ago
    Well strikes are only effective when they hurt. I fully support aiming strikes at points of time when they have most impact. That is only way to show importance of the workers. Maybe excluding things like natural emergencies.
  • almostgotcaught 2y ago
    > This genuinely seems like extortion. extortion implies extorionate demands. the demands here are ... checks notes ... remote work and protection from arbitrary termination.
  • meibo 2y ago
    That is what strikes are by definition, yes. It doesn't just seem like it. There is no other weapon workers can wield if they don't have a legal basis to make leadership meet their demands. Obviously this can backfire in countries that don't have good union law and if you are too replaceable (hello AI).
    • francisofascii 2y ago
      Except this is legal. Extortion is typically not.
      • consteval 2y ago
        This isn't Extortion because there's no gun to your head saying you HAVE to provide labor. At least in most industries. If I choose not to help you, I'm not extorting anything - you're free to find someone else. If you can't, and I'm your only option, that's still your problem, not mine.
    • randomdata 2y ago
      Not quite. Extortion is defined by introducing force. A strike is defined by withdrawing force.
• johndhi 2y ago
  Good luck. I'm curious what you feel about the following: These days news publications generally have a pretty weak business model and a lot of competition. Does it still make sense to have a union in this case? Why?
  • aimazon 2y ago
    The NYT is very profitable.
    • shagie 2y ago
      They just released their earnings report. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/04/new-york-times-nyt-q3-earnings-report.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/04/new-york-times-nyt-q3-earnin... > Total revenue of $640.2 million was in line with estimates of $640.8 million, as digital advertising thrived. > Adjusted profit was 45 cents per share. There are 164,540,000 shares outstanding. That gives a profit of $74,043,000 They have 5900 employees for a profit per employee per quarter of $12,550 While yes, they are profitable this doesn't suggest that there is a lot of room between profit, pay raise per employee and net loss for the company.
  • dopylitty 2y ago
    Something I've learned from 404 media is journalism actually has a fine business model. People are willing to pay for good journalism. The problem is (much like the rest of the economy) what passes for news media is incredibly top heavy and bloated with managers, executives, and shareholders who suck up money without providing any value. For every journalist there are 15 managers and editors hired for nepotism reasons. The NYT is full of people like that who do nothing but trot out right wing editorials supporting whatever war the US is involved in[4] or attacking people who think the world can be a better place[3]. I used to pay for The Atlantic but for every Ed Yong writing amazing science articles there's a right wing editor like Jeffrey Goldberg[1] sucking up money and shitting out right wing propaganda[2]. This article[0]from 404 said it well. >Then I went to work for VICE, and made working at VICE part of my identity. I wanted the company to succeed so badly because I believed in what we were doing and I believed in the institution. I worked zillions of hours of unpaid overtime, took on side projects, canceled vacations to do work, worked on vacations, and made incredibly hard decisions, thinking that, if I did my job well enough, the company would succeed and we would get to keep doing what we were doing. I spent the vast majority of that time doing work that made money for an over-bloated apparatus that existed to make a bunch of middle managers and executives large salaries and bonuses and to benefit a founder who is now retroactively denigrating our work in an attempt to cling to whatever relevancy he can find by catering to conspiracy theorists and the right. I hope journalists leave the old right wing media like the NYT and Washington Post and start their own things focusing on journalism. I gladly pay for that. 0 https://www.404media.co/the-billionaire-is-the-threat-not-the-solution/ https://www.404media.co/the-billionaire-is-the-threat-not-th... 1: https://fair.org/home/conspiracies-pushed-by-atlantics-editor-excluded-from-atlantics-denunciation-of-conspiracy-theories/ https://fair.org/home/conspiracies-pushed-by-atlantics-edito... 2: https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-198-how-the-atlantic-magazine-helps-sell-austerity-and-war-to-middlebrow-liberals https://citationsneeded.libsyn.com/episode-198-how-the-atlan... 3: https://fair.org/home/nyts-campus-free-speech-coverage-focuses-7-to-1-on-plight-of-right/ https://fair.org/home/nyts-campus-free-speech-coverage-focus... 4: https://fair.org/home/20-years-later-nyt-still-cant-face-its-iraq-war-shame/ https://fair.org/home/20-years-later-nyt-still-cant-face-its...
• vijucat 2y ago
  Genuine question: what prevents the NYT from offshoring these jobs if they can be done from home? I feel for you, as a fellow worker, but unless there is something hyper-local about the job such as regulatory requirements or trust issues with IP protection, the jobs will go to the ones who work hard without complaining too much.
  • marricks 2y ago
    > “Work hard without complaining” I don’t think this is the outlook of an ally. I think the answer to that is a strong union able to bring down the website and get management to the table. This is why we all need unions.
    • richwater 2y ago
      > I think the answer to that is a strong union able to bring down the website Unions cannot cause intentional or malicious destruction of their workplace. https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/01/politics/labor-strike-supreme-court-cement-company-glacier-teamsters/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/01/politics/labor-strike-supreme...
      • ceejayoz 2y ago
        That was clearly intended to permanently damage/destroy the equipment. Coding a time bomb into the website would be illegal, but they can't force you back to work to fix a bug/outage that happens to occur during the strike.
        • ericd 2y ago
          If your highly cacheable, almost entirely static news site goes out when no one is touching anything, that's pretty suspect.
          • ceejayoz 2y ago
            I suspect you underestimate the complexity of the NYT site and keeping it running. Especially with a huge election tomorrow.
• randomdata 2y ago
  > on the subway headed to the picket line in solidarity right now. [...] are holding the line against arbitrary return to office mandates Wouldn't you send a stronger message if you picketed at home?
• eduction 2y ago
  Do you know if they are still seeking a four day work week and/or the non performance bonuses? The last update I saw was in September https://www.semafor.com/article/09/15/2024/new-york-times-tech-staff-threatens-strike-during-election-day-crunch https://www.semafor.com/article/09/15/2024/new-york-times-te...
• fwip 2y ago
  Has the union asked for people to "boycott" the NYT during their strike? I know that sometimes unions want that, and sometimes they want the opposite.
• losvedir 2y ago
  > I encourage everyone to respect the picket line and get your news elsewhere Technically, wouldn't "respecting the picket line" be not doing any "scab" work for the NYTimes? Asking us not to use the NYTimes is more of a boycott and a separate question (and not always something strikers ask for). Is it official policy of the strike that they request people boycott in solidarity as well?
  • randomdata 2y ago
    > Asking us not to use the NYTimes is more of a boycott and a separate question Hence the use of "and". It presents two separate ideas for you to think about: - Respect the pickup line - Get your news elsewhere
    • dylan604 2y ago
      [flagged]
      • deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      • blitzar 2y ago
        If you were words on a page you'd be the fine print.
  • cool_dude85 2y ago
    One aspect of respecting the picket line is not scabbing, the second is refusing to do business, i.e. not crossing the picket line.
  • input_sh 2y ago
    What they're asking from readers is far more limited in scope than not using the whole website: > The Tech Guild is asking readers to honor the digital picket line and not play popular NYT Games such as Wordle and Connections as well as not use the NYT Cooking app. Members of the newsroom union, Times Guild, have pledged not to do struck work, a right that’s protected under their contract. https://nyguild.org/post/new-york-times-tech-guild-walks-off-the-job https://nyguild.org/post/new-york-times-tech-guild-walks-off...
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• yincrash 2y ago
  According to Maggie Astor, news is not behind the picket line - NYT Games and Cooking are BEHIND THE PICKET LINE. Please don’t play or engage with Games or Cooking content while the strike lasts! News coverage — including election coverage — is NOT behind the picket line. It’s okay to read and share that, though the site and app may very well have problems. https://bsky.app/profile/maggieastor.bsky.social/post/3la4qgiixlr2x https://bsky.app/profile/maggieastor.bsky.social/post/3la4qg...
  • bwestergard 2y ago
    I stand corrected! My apologies.
  • tacticalturtle 2y ago
    > NYT Games and Cooking are BEHIND THE PICKET LINE. Please don’t play or engage with Games or Cooking content while the strike lasts! If I pay for a service, I expect it to be available. It’s not my job to track the status of labor disputes - it’s the job of the NYTimes (the organization) to ensure they deliver that service. If they can’t, because they are dealing with ongoing labor disputes, then I’ll probably complain and cancel. The threat of those cancellations seems like plenty enough leverage for a striking union. I don’t understand why I would need to preemptively refrain from a service I’ve already paid for.
• deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
• syndicatedjelly 2y ago
  What leverage does the Times tech workers have in this negotiation? Why does their job specifically matter, versus someone abroad who can do some web dev and data wrangling for a fraction of the cost and similar quality?
  • shadowgovt 2y ago
    You have more-or-less hit upon the reason unions exist.
    • syndicatedjelly 2y ago
      Which is what?
      • shadowgovt 2y ago
        Individual employees do not matter. Get a group of employees together to act in concert and you have a negotiating bloc that a company cannot ignore. Especially as the bloc grows. If the "someone abroad" is also part of the same bloc, management ends up running out of people to turn to. A rising tide floats all boats. (It's even more extreme in some countries. I've heard tale of situations in Scandinavian nations where a restaurant owner who mistreats their serving staff will find, in addition to the staff leaving and nobody being willing to scab for them, that their deliveries are delayed because nobody will drive ingredients to them and if their sink breaks down no plumber will take the contract to fix it).
• AzzyHN 2y ago
  I appreciate you for joining in solidarity.
• gnopgnip 2y ago
  It sounds like the biggest contention is just cause for terminations instead of at will. If the employer normally isn't firing people without a good reason it sounds like an easy win. Why do they fight these negotiations so much?
  • JBiserkov 2y ago
    Because. Employers are firing people without a good reason. It makes the stock price go up. And even the threat of it keeps the masses in check.
  • foota 2y ago
    I imagine they want to be able to let people go without building extensive cases against them. While being let go without a good reason isn't fun, neither is working with toxic people while the company tries to build a case against them.
  • PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > If the employer normally isn't firing people without a good reason Isn't this the default state of affairs for american private enterprise? This is why PIPs are so wildly popular—it's trivial to fabricate performance reasoning regardless of the actual motivations for firing. Granted, I don't see how you could negotiate your way out of this. We need federal labor protections to make serious movement on this.
• legitster 2y ago
  Do the tech unions at these organizations get along/have solidarity with the journalistic unions or is there animosity between the two on deals like this?
• visarga 2y ago
  I have been avoiding NYT ever since they started suing LLM developers for copyright infringement. I find it distasteful to own abstract ideas or claim copyright over them.
• tqi 2y ago
  > The vast majority of HN consists of developers, designers, QA, and PMs who stand to gain from a successful movement to win these rights. Personally, I have considered the arguments and concluded that I am not interested in collective bargaining or joining a union.