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DJIA is not taken very seriously outside of mainstream media it seems. The news loves to quote big drops or increases to the DJIA due to the index being price w

DJIA is not taken very seriously outside of mainstream media it seems. The news loves to quote big drops or increases to the DJIA due to the index being price weighted. “Wow the news is saying the DJIA dropped 1000 points today! That’s huge.” Nah, that’s like 2% This seems like another media opportunity about a nothing burger event for an index that has lost relevance, when other indices like the S&P 500 and QQQ have already incorporated NVIDIA a while ago. They’re just playing catch up.

Terr_ 2y ago
> DJIA is not taken very seriously outside of mainstream media it seems AFAIK its only real utility is if you want to make very long term comparisons over the years against old values of itself, where its long baseline may be valuable compared to other metrics that don't stretch as far. Everything else is just flim-flam for getting views/clicks or comforting very old viewers with something that is a familiar staple.
Apocryphon 2y ago
Do any index funds track it?
- phil21 2y ago
  Quite a few, pretty much every major ETF provider should have one. I recall Vanguard not, and a quick google seems to confirm that. I do wonder why? The one I know of off the top of my head is DIA.
  - staticman2 2y ago
    The dow is price weighted. Vanguard, being a sort of non profit, probably doesn't want people investing in an obviously horrible index that should have gone away decades ago.
    - Ekaros 2y ago
      They don't care about people investing in losing bets. But they care about wasting resources on running stuff that does not sell. And not having a plus followed by big number and percentage sign in column next to name is bad seller. In the end how funds are marketed and presented is important part to understand. Also it is better for them to sell actively managed fund with bigger number on it than index with negative one.
  - quickthrowman 2y ago
    > I recall Vanguard not, and a quick google seems to confirm that. I do wonder why? It’s a crappy price weighted benchmark with 30 stocks invented over 100 years ago, that’s why Vanguard doesn’t offer a fund. The largest DJIA ETF is small potatoes, SPY’s average daily volume is higher than DIA’s total assets under management. VOO tracks the S&P 500 and VTI tracks the US total market, both of these are much better, more diversified options for equity investing.
stocknoob 2y ago
100%. It’s a good example of how the media wants to entertain, not inform. The DJIA is a price-weighted index and doesn’t track dividends, yet is somehow supposed to reflect investor sentiment.
- bradleyjg 2y ago
  the media wants to entertain, not inform The media wants to not go bankrupt. It’s the customers that decide whether and how that’s possible.
  - thimabi 2y ago
    > The media wants to not go bankrupt. I’d say that depends. Many media organizations operate without profits — or even incurring losses — in order to serve the public good, promote an ideology, engage in activism, spread misinformation, etc.
    - hackernewds 2y ago
      spread misinformation? which major media operations are operating at a loss how for the public good (discounting state run) and how?
      - thimabi 2y ago
        > spread misinformation? Yes, several state-run and private media organizations operate without profits or at a loss in order to spread misinformation. > which major media operations are operating at a loss how for the public good (discounting state run) and how? Sorry, I was unable to properly understand your question. In any case, I never said the organizations that are not primarily concerned with chasing profits are “major” ones. I believe that applies best to lesser-well-known entities, like those who live on social media or the blogosphere. Though there are some instances of major state-run companies, even on TV and on the radio, that operate in a similar fashion. Also, I am surely not equating the spread of misinformation with serving the public good — these are just distinct objectives that may be sought by media organizations, rather than avoiding bankruptcy.
worstspotgain 2y ago
> nothing burger event for an index that has lost relevance This argument has been around since time immemorial. The right way to think of it is more like a country club or a who's who, rather than a survey or a directory. As for the news at hand, it's really more about Intel than Nvidia. Sic transit gloria mundi.
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  Intel hasn’t been in the country club for 10+ years.
  - worstspotgain 2y ago
    If you exclude its pre-Athlon Nvidia-like era, Intel's market cap earlier this year was only ~20% below its 2020ish peak. It has engineers. It might yet surprise. Nvidia hasn't proven it can turn a ridiculous amount of capital into a matrix-multiplication moat.
rty32 2y ago
This could be very wrong, but I thought DJIA is relevant mostly due to WSJ? Most publications care about S&P 500, but in WSJ they always quote DJIA first (for obvious reasons) and maybe mention S&P 500.
- anonu 2y ago
  The Dow Jones corp used to own the index and the newspaper prior to the mid 2000s. Now, News Corp runs the WSJ and the index is mostly owned and run by S&P. So there is a historical connection and probably some legacy ownership today.

Terr_ 2y ago

> DJIA is not taken very seriously outside of mainstream media it seems AFAIK its only real utility is if you want to make very long term comparisons over the years against old values of itself, where its long baseline may be valuable compared to other metrics that don't stretch as far. Everything else is just flim-flam for getting views/clicks or comforting very old viewers with something that is a familiar staple.

Apocryphon 2y ago

Do any index funds track it?

phil21 2y ago
Quite a few, pretty much every major ETF provider should have one. I recall Vanguard not, and a quick google seems to confirm that. I do wonder why? The one I know of off the top of my head is DIA.
- staticman2 2y ago
  The dow is price weighted. Vanguard, being a sort of non profit, probably doesn't want people investing in an obviously horrible index that should have gone away decades ago.
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    They don't care about people investing in losing bets. But they care about wasting resources on running stuff that does not sell. And not having a plus followed by big number and percentage sign in column next to name is bad seller. In the end how funds are marketed and presented is important part to understand. Also it is better for them to sell actively managed fund with bigger number on it than index with negative one.
- quickthrowman 2y ago
  > I recall Vanguard not, and a quick google seems to confirm that. I do wonder why? It’s a crappy price weighted benchmark with 30 stocks invented over 100 years ago, that’s why Vanguard doesn’t offer a fund. The largest DJIA ETF is small potatoes, SPY’s average daily volume is higher than DIA’s total assets under management. VOO tracks the S&P 500 and VTI tracks the US total market, both of these are much better, more diversified options for equity investing.

stocknoob 2y ago

100%. It’s a good example of how the media wants to entertain, not inform. The DJIA is a price-weighted index and doesn’t track dividends, yet is somehow supposed to reflect investor sentiment.

bradleyjg 2y ago
the media wants to entertain, not inform The media wants to not go bankrupt. It’s the customers that decide whether and how that’s possible.
- thimabi 2y ago
  > The media wants to not go bankrupt. I’d say that depends. Many media organizations operate without profits — or even incurring losses — in order to serve the public good, promote an ideology, engage in activism, spread misinformation, etc.
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    spread misinformation? which major media operations are operating at a loss how for the public good (discounting state run) and how?
    - thimabi 2y ago
      > spread misinformation? Yes, several state-run and private media organizations operate without profits or at a loss in order to spread misinformation. > which major media operations are operating at a loss how for the public good (discounting state run) and how? Sorry, I was unable to properly understand your question. In any case, I never said the organizations that are not primarily concerned with chasing profits are “major” ones. I believe that applies best to lesser-well-known entities, like those who live on social media or the blogosphere. Though there are some instances of major state-run companies, even on TV and on the radio, that operate in a similar fashion. Also, I am surely not equating the spread of misinformation with serving the public good — these are just distinct objectives that may be sought by media organizations, rather than avoiding bankruptcy.

worstspotgain 2y ago

> nothing burger event for an index that has lost relevance This argument has been around since time immemorial. The right way to think of it is more like a country club or a who's who, rather than a survey or a directory. As for the news at hand, it's really more about Intel than Nvidia. Sic transit gloria mundi.

lotsofpulp 2y ago
Intel hasn’t been in the country club for 10+ years.
- worstspotgain 2y ago
  If you exclude its pre-Athlon Nvidia-like era, Intel's market cap earlier this year was only ~20% below its 2020ish peak. It has engineers. It might yet surprise. Nvidia hasn't proven it can turn a ridiculous amount of capital into a matrix-multiplication moat.

rty32 2y ago

This could be very wrong, but I thought DJIA is relevant mostly due to WSJ? Most publications care about S&P 500, but in WSJ they always quote DJIA first (for obvious reasons) and maybe mention S&P 500.

anonu 2y ago
The Dow Jones corp used to own the index and the newspaper prior to the mid 2000s. Now, News Corp runs the WSJ and the index is mostly owned and run by S&P. So there is a historical connection and probably some legacy ownership today.