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I'm still surprised the "dumb phone for kids" and "dumb watch with basic comms" markets are so underdeveloped (from my perspective). I would love my kids to hav

I'm still surprised the "dumb phone for kids" and "dumb watch with basic comms" markets are so underdeveloped (from my perspective). I would love my kids to have (a) gps tracking, (b) ability to send texts/calls to like 5 predefined numbers, (c) tell the time, and nothing else. But watches all seem to have games or weird gamified fitness trackers (Google's new fitbit for kids). Or they are super kid-ish, like bright blue with animal icons, and would be revolting to my older kids. That would make it easy to wait until 9th grade for a more feature-rich phone, though maybe still not unfettered access. Does anyone have a basic watch/dumbphone solution for older kids that they like?

0_____0 2y ago
I didn't have a phone at all until I was in high school! Looking back on all the times that I was tragically killed or maimed as a result, it's a miracle I'm able to write this comment today!
- brewdad 2y ago
  I'm glad to see high schools pushing back on this. My college student had classes their first two years that required a smartphone in order to participate in class. Failure to procure an Android or Apple device that could run the app they used was an automatic 20% markdown on one's final grade for non-participation.
  - 0_____0 2y ago
    A friend shared a photo of a wall organizer that (middle school?) kids put their phones into during class. Even though I'm now long out of school, that they sort of have to adapt or else it will really affect the educational outcomes. I don't think people failing out of college really has the same stigma for the institution. I wonder if in fact it would even help with the prestige somehow.
tirant 2y ago
Smart watches were banned in our kids primary school as some of them have cameras and were used to take inappropriate photos. We have finally decided for an analog watch and no tracking as we live in a safe neighborhood and they know most of the neighbors.
- vasco 2y ago
  Did you ban pens and eye glasses too? Love places that make rules that prevent nothing from the offenders but make it worse for everyone else. If they had a hidden camera in a smartwatch they'll have a hidden camera in some other cheap gizmo.
aidenn0 2y ago
Gabb seems to be the closest, but even that has a "virtual pet" type game built in that gamifies certain things. I've also done an android phone with an MDM in kiosk mode. None of those let you limit who is contacted though, so it ends up being more like a classic dumb phone in that you can't browse the web, but can dial whomever you want. Just make sure that you disable the Google SMS app and use a stripped down one (I used simple-sms).
jordanthoms 2y ago
Also interested in this - the Apple Watch for Kids setup seems a possibility, but it's only available in certain countries
lairv 2y ago
Everyone has a different threshold for what they want from a dumb phone, some wants Google Maps, some think Youtube is ok, Google Chrome etc. which makes it hard to have a one true dumb phone. If you give access to the play store it's no longer a dumb phone The best way to have a dumb phone tailored to your needs is to take a cheap smartphone and make it dumb, either by using a different launcher, or a customized OS I wish there was an easy to customize "dumb android os" that would let you pick initial applications you want to have, and then disable play store
- adriand 2y ago
  It’s true. My daughter didn’t have a phone until 9th grade, which she just started. She had talked about getting a dumb phone because she wasn’t very into the smartphone thing, which I was supportive of. However she now takes public transit to high school, and really wanted the Transit app so she could easily navigate in the city. So, an iPhone is where we landed. And I have to say, it is astounding how quickly that thing got its hooks into her. I naively thought she might have been immune to it, given her habits and attitude. Boy was I wrong.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    That’s sad but probably inevitable. Is there room for something like a personal Garmin navigation device? Does that already exist?
  - computerdork 2y ago
    Out of curiosity, what are her phone habits like? And, as others have mentioned, you can turn on parental controls to limit what apps she can have on it. Have you done this already?
    - adriand 2y ago
      I started describing the situation and then realized doing so is a breach of her privacy, so deleted my comment. I did have parental controls on it in terms of the apps she has access to, but had not limited the time spent (my mistake). I wish there was also a way to limit the number of pickups.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
I got my child an AppleWatch SE (a few years ago), which yeah, technically has a bunch of apps but they're not really useful or of interest to them, and if they don't have social media accounts (which mine don't), then it acts as a phone and locater without all the rest. On the downside they kept begging for a phone so they could text their friends, which was reasonable, and texting on the Watch is a terrible experience. So we finally did give in to a phone but with locked down parental controls, so they can't install apps, etc. (though I'm finding those iOS parental controls don't work as well I had hoped; there's a huge issue with them being reset suddenly -- lots of forums of people complaining about this).
- vundercind 2y ago
  If it’s like an iPhone (or Mac!) you can disable all the apps you don’t want them to use. Apple parental controls are great. Except on the AppleTV. I just want PIN unlock for any apps not on an allow-list. This does not seem like much to ask. But no.
- ngai_aku 2y ago
  Do you have a Mac at home? I wonder if a middle ground could have been reached by providing space and time for iMessage on the computer. It would be like the old IM days!
maxbond 2y ago
I would submit map functionality to the list as well. I think it would be healthy for a kid old enough to tell time to experiment with navigating, maybe following along on their map on drives.
- amluto 2y ago
  This problem was quite well solved by a kids learning their way around using their eyes and good paper map. (I miss paper maps. They were actually designed to confer understanding — in particular, every street showed a name! Smartphone navigation apps and navigation websites often don’t show names any more.)
  - maxbond 2y ago
    I agree that spending time with a really good map is like reading a book and confers more understanding than a map app. Map apps are pretty crumby, presumably because they're crammed into a screen. Paper maps are still a thing, I was at a book store the other day with a really big paper map section. In particular I enjoy geologic maps; they add depth and history to the landscape around you. Map apps are much faster for navigation though. At least on the scale of walking a few blocks.
couchdb_ouchdb 2y ago
https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/
dgacmu 2y ago
We've used both gabb and an apple watch and they both work decently well. The apple watch has a few too many features by default but it's not as engrossing as a smartphone. The gabb watch was great overall. We switched from gabb -> apple at the end of 6th grade because we felt like our daughter had reached a point of being able to ignore the distractions of the watch in most settings and for the most part that's worked out well. We upgraded specifically to allow texting/IM'ing friends, which may or may not be within what some people want happening. I will note that having her be able to call us is fantastic. There's a lot of end-of-school "hey you need to walk home today / walk over to my office / oh wait i'll pick you up" kind of coordination, which we could probably avoid with careful advance planning but it's really nice to be able to be flexible. And also, youtube shorts / tiktok are the most addictive thing I've seen put in front of a child that age. She can browse YT shorts on her school computer at home (!!) and it's .. it's really stunning how absorbing it is for her. And not in a good way.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tw04 2y ago
They already make this. Gizmo on Verizon. SyncUp on T-Mobile. Garmin bounce if you’re ok with them only being able to send voice memos and not call.
asveikau 2y ago
My daughter has a normal android phone with Google Family Link and tons of builtin apps removed and websites blocked. The parental controls are pretty good.
- silisili 2y ago
  Gotta agree here. The only apps that aren't blocked are the phone itself, messages, and a few games. Doesn't even have a browser on it much less social media. It's really been fantastic in letting her have a phone for communication, and technically she can text her friends if they want to, but no social media. It's pretty close to a dumb phone really. The location tracking alone is worth it, to me. My only annoyance came when she turned 13, and Google decided to offer her complete freedom without parental consent. Left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the project, which is a shame.
  - asveikau 2y ago
    Thanks for the warning, I guess I'll need to watch out for that in a few years.
    - silisili 2y ago
      It was scummy, because naturally it will always cause tension. I feel the right way would have been to approach us. Instead they approach the child who will always click freedom. They also sent us parents an email letting us know she's free to do as she wishes and we're SOL. We told her she could stay under Family Link, or else buy her own phone and service. That seems effective. Sorry Google, I'll decide my childrens' internet access. Not your giant advertising machine.
unwind 2y ago
Sounds like Xplora [1] to me. I assume they have an English-language site but failed to find it and it's late, sorry. [1]: https://xplora.se/ https://xplora.se/
- coolcoder613 2y ago
  US: https://shop.myxplora.com/ https://shop.myxplora.com/ UK: https://xplora.co.uk/ https://xplora.co.uk/
XorNot 2y ago
But you don't need any of this? The parental lock out settings on Android and iOS are superb - you can buy any modern smartphone, and lock out everything you want so it acts like a dumbphone with a nice screen - i.e. disable the web browser, disable app installs etc. I see this comment a lot and it seems to mostly highlight that people aren't investigating the very capable tools which already exist.
burnt-resistor 2y ago
I think the problem is it's not a defensible business because there's little barrier to entry to create an Android watch with less features. Every carrier has their own dumb, minimal smart watches, but I'm sure most of them suck because the product management is probably outsourced. Essential features and nonfunctional requirements: - Calendar, time and date, alarms and reminders - IP67 - Ruby or gorilla glass screen (scratches OK) - Locked-down phone, texting, messaging, and location sharing - Ability to call 911 - Minimal apps - Minimal animation - Band that's somewhat difficult to undo and hypoallergenic material... silicone seems pretty neutral - Not disassemblable without tools because the kids I know would have them in pieces in minutes. - Neither a fashion statement nor a kid group social faux pas If any existing models fulfill these close enough, then great. If not, then it might be worth entertaining but would need a go-to-market strategy to compete with every other smartwatch mfgr on the market with unlimited funding.
- JaggedNZ 2y ago
  Samsung has partnered with Safesurfer in NZ to create a "kid safe" social media free version of the Galaxy A15 and A25. Not a samsung / android fan tbh.
- m463 2y ago
  lol, I know someone who got his kid a "dumb" flip phone figuring that would solve things. Pretty soon, his kid was showing me how it was android underneath and all the apps he had sideloaded.
JeremyNT 2y ago
I can buy my kid a very cheap android phone and lock it down to only run a couple of select apps. The advantage of this is that it is as smart or dumb as I allow it to be. Now that she is a little older (8th grade) I've slowly increased the allowed apps and screen time. She is able to do really useful things with it. So in short: you can make a smart phone dumb, but you can't make a dumb phone smart.
froglets 2y ago
You can get a basic flip phone from tracfone with a year of service (calls and text only, no mobile data) for $20-40. You can keep that plan but change to a regular smartphone and use google family app for parental controls.
shaklee3 2y ago
This is exactly what the Fitbit Ace LTE does. So far it's been great since my daughter has no desire to ask anything else on it besides increase physical activity to get prizes
w10-1 2y ago
The iPhone has restricted access mode, to limit access to bad stuff, typically used for child gateways. It also has assistive access mode, which only permits access to good stuff, mostly to simplify UI's for the elderly, et al. Both put the burden of integration on the configuring user, who basically becomes the system UI designer with a limited and awkward palette. A nice feature in either case would be a way to edit, package and share or sell such configurations. Indeed, I could see Apple building out this capability as a product line architecture supporting enterprise, health, and childhood/education.
cjpearson 2y ago
I'm not a parent, but I see why someone might want to always know exactly where there child is and invest in anything which might improve their safety. On the other hand, raising children without GPS surveillance seemed to work pretty well for many years. Is saying something like "Put on your timex and be back home by 6." no longer feasible? (Or if you want be even more old school "by sundown".)
xrd 2y ago
Yes. The Timex smart watch is perfect for this. You can find them on eBay for $20. You can get a SIM that works with T-Mobile usually. The only issue is that sometimes they are locked and getting them unlocked is some work. But I love these watches. I'm using the watch for older people. There is a sport watch, which I think has an esim. I have one of these but haven't been able to use it yet. Feel free to ask me more over email if you want. It's on my profile page. I definitely went down the rabbit hole on finding this watch and it was a doozy.
gwbas1c 2y ago
Our friends basically locked down an old phone to just the apps they approve of. Their 8-year-old is home alone for about an hour after school, and they don't have a landline. We plugged in an old phone to a wall outlet, and just keep it locked with a pin. It allows for emergency calls. There is almost always someone home, so we don't feel the need to allow our kids to call us. Another set of friends trusts their 11-year-old with full access.

0_____0 2y ago

I didn't have a phone at all until I was in high school! Looking back on all the times that I was tragically killed or maimed as a result, it's a miracle I'm able to write this comment today!

brewdad 2y ago
I'm glad to see high schools pushing back on this. My college student had classes their first two years that required a smartphone in order to participate in class. Failure to procure an Android or Apple device that could run the app they used was an automatic 20% markdown on one's final grade for non-participation.
- 0_____0 2y ago
  A friend shared a photo of a wall organizer that (middle school?) kids put their phones into during class. Even though I'm now long out of school, that they sort of have to adapt or else it will really affect the educational outcomes. I don't think people failing out of college really has the same stigma for the institution. I wonder if in fact it would even help with the prestige somehow.

tirant 2y ago

Smart watches were banned in our kids primary school as some of them have cameras and were used to take inappropriate photos. We have finally decided for an analog watch and no tracking as we live in a safe neighborhood and they know most of the neighbors.

vasco 2y ago
Did you ban pens and eye glasses too? Love places that make rules that prevent nothing from the offenders but make it worse for everyone else. If they had a hidden camera in a smartwatch they'll have a hidden camera in some other cheap gizmo.

aidenn0 2y ago

Gabb seems to be the closest, but even that has a "virtual pet" type game built in that gamifies certain things. I've also done an android phone with an MDM in kiosk mode. None of those let you limit who is contacted though, so it ends up being more like a classic dumb phone in that you can't browse the web, but can dial whomever you want. Just make sure that you disable the Google SMS app and use a stripped down one (I used simple-sms).

jordanthoms 2y ago

Also interested in this - the Apple Watch for Kids setup seems a possibility, but it's only available in certain countries

lairv 2y ago

Everyone has a different threshold for what they want from a dumb phone, some wants Google Maps, some think Youtube is ok, Google Chrome etc. which makes it hard to have a one true dumb phone. If you give access to the play store it's no longer a dumb phone The best way to have a dumb phone tailored to your needs is to take a cheap smartphone and make it dumb, either by using a different launcher, or a customized OS I wish there was an easy to customize "dumb android os" that would let you pick initial applications you want to have, and then disable play store

adriand 2y ago
It’s true. My daughter didn’t have a phone until 9th grade, which she just started. She had talked about getting a dumb phone because she wasn’t very into the smartphone thing, which I was supportive of. However she now takes public transit to high school, and really wanted the Transit app so she could easily navigate in the city. So, an iPhone is where we landed. And I have to say, it is astounding how quickly that thing got its hooks into her. I naively thought she might have been immune to it, given her habits and attitude. Boy was I wrong.
- mulmen 2y ago
  That’s sad but probably inevitable. Is there room for something like a personal Garmin navigation device? Does that already exist?
- computerdork 2y ago
  Out of curiosity, what are her phone habits like? And, as others have mentioned, you can turn on parental controls to limit what apps she can have on it. Have you done this already?
  - adriand 2y ago
    I started describing the situation and then realized doing so is a breach of her privacy, so deleted my comment. I did have parental controls on it in terms of the apps she has access to, but had not limited the time spent (my mistake). I wish there was also a way to limit the number of pickups.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

I got my child an AppleWatch SE (a few years ago), which yeah, technically has a bunch of apps but they're not really useful or of interest to them, and if they don't have social media accounts (which mine don't), then it acts as a phone and locater without all the rest. On the downside they kept begging for a phone so they could text their friends, which was reasonable, and texting on the Watch is a terrible experience. So we finally did give in to a phone but with locked down parental controls, so they can't install apps, etc. (though I'm finding those iOS parental controls don't work as well I had hoped; there's a huge issue with them being reset suddenly -- lots of forums of people complaining about this).

vundercind 2y ago
If it’s like an iPhone (or Mac!) you can disable all the apps you don’t want them to use. Apple parental controls are great. Except on the AppleTV. I just want PIN unlock for any apps not on an allow-list. This does not seem like much to ask. But no.
ngai_aku 2y ago
Do you have a Mac at home? I wonder if a middle ground could have been reached by providing space and time for iMessage on the computer. It would be like the old IM days!

maxbond 2y ago

I would submit map functionality to the list as well. I think it would be healthy for a kid old enough to tell time to experiment with navigating, maybe following along on their map on drives.

amluto 2y ago
This problem was quite well solved by a kids learning their way around using their eyes and good paper map. (I miss paper maps. They were actually designed to confer understanding — in particular, every street showed a name! Smartphone navigation apps and navigation websites often don’t show names any more.)
- maxbond 2y ago
  I agree that spending time with a really good map is like reading a book and confers more understanding than a map app. Map apps are pretty crumby, presumably because they're crammed into a screen. Paper maps are still a thing, I was at a book store the other day with a really big paper map section. In particular I enjoy geologic maps; they add depth and history to the landscape around you. Map apps are much faster for navigation though. At least on the scale of walking a few blocks.

couchdb_ouchdb 2y ago

https://www.thelightphone.com/ https://www.thelightphone.com/

dgacmu 2y ago

We've used both gabb and an apple watch and they both work decently well. The apple watch has a few too many features by default but it's not as engrossing as a smartphone. The gabb watch was great overall. We switched from gabb -> apple at the end of 6th grade because we felt like our daughter had reached a point of being able to ignore the distractions of the watch in most settings and for the most part that's worked out well. We upgraded specifically to allow texting/IM'ing friends, which may or may not be within what some people want happening. I will note that having her be able to call us is fantastic. There's a lot of end-of-school "hey you need to walk home today / walk over to my office / oh wait i'll pick you up" kind of coordination, which we could probably avoid with careful advance planning but it's really nice to be able to be flexible. And also, youtube shorts / tiktok are the most addictive thing I've seen put in front of a child that age. She can browse YT shorts on her school computer at home (!!) and it's .. it's really stunning how absorbing it is for her. And not in a good way.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tw04 2y ago

They already make this. Gizmo on Verizon. SyncUp on T-Mobile. Garmin bounce if you’re ok with them only being able to send voice memos and not call.

asveikau 2y ago

My daughter has a normal android phone with Google Family Link and tons of builtin apps removed and websites blocked. The parental controls are pretty good.

silisili 2y ago
Gotta agree here. The only apps that aren't blocked are the phone itself, messages, and a few games. Doesn't even have a browser on it much less social media. It's really been fantastic in letting her have a phone for communication, and technically she can text her friends if they want to, but no social media. It's pretty close to a dumb phone really. The location tracking alone is worth it, to me. My only annoyance came when she turned 13, and Google decided to offer her complete freedom without parental consent. Left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the project, which is a shame.
- asveikau 2y ago
  Thanks for the warning, I guess I'll need to watch out for that in a few years.
  - silisili 2y ago
    It was scummy, because naturally it will always cause tension. I feel the right way would have been to approach us. Instead they approach the child who will always click freedom. They also sent us parents an email letting us know she's free to do as she wishes and we're SOL. We told her she could stay under Family Link, or else buy her own phone and service. That seems effective. Sorry Google, I'll decide my childrens' internet access. Not your giant advertising machine.

unwind 2y ago

Sounds like Xplora [1] to me. I assume they have an English-language site but failed to find it and it's late, sorry. [1]: https://xplora.se/ https://xplora.se/

coolcoder613 2y ago
US: https://shop.myxplora.com/ https://shop.myxplora.com/ UK: https://xplora.co.uk/ https://xplora.co.uk/

XorNot 2y ago

But you don't need any of this? The parental lock out settings on Android and iOS are superb - you can buy any modern smartphone, and lock out everything you want so it acts like a dumbphone with a nice screen - i.e. disable the web browser, disable app installs etc. I see this comment a lot and it seems to mostly highlight that people aren't investigating the very capable tools which already exist.

burnt-resistor 2y ago

I think the problem is it's not a defensible business because there's little barrier to entry to create an Android watch with less features. Every carrier has their own dumb, minimal smart watches, but I'm sure most of them suck because the product management is probably outsourced. Essential features and nonfunctional requirements: - Calendar, time and date, alarms and reminders - IP67 - Ruby or gorilla glass screen (scratches OK) - Locked-down phone, texting, messaging, and location sharing - Ability to call 911 - Minimal apps - Minimal animation - Band that's somewhat difficult to undo and hypoallergenic material... silicone seems pretty neutral - Not disassemblable without tools because the kids I know would have them in pieces in minutes. - Neither a fashion statement nor a kid group social faux pas If any existing models fulfill these close enough, then great. If not, then it might be worth entertaining but would need a go-to-market strategy to compete with every other smartwatch mfgr on the market with unlimited funding.

JaggedNZ 2y ago
Samsung has partnered with Safesurfer in NZ to create a "kid safe" social media free version of the Galaxy A15 and A25. Not a samsung / android fan tbh.
m463 2y ago
lol, I know someone who got his kid a "dumb" flip phone figuring that would solve things. Pretty soon, his kid was showing me how it was android underneath and all the apps he had sideloaded.

JeremyNT 2y ago

I can buy my kid a very cheap android phone and lock it down to only run a couple of select apps. The advantage of this is that it is as smart or dumb as I allow it to be. Now that she is a little older (8th grade) I've slowly increased the allowed apps and screen time. She is able to do really useful things with it. So in short: you can make a smart phone dumb, but you can't make a dumb phone smart.

froglets 2y ago

You can get a basic flip phone from tracfone with a year of service (calls and text only, no mobile data) for $20-40. You can keep that plan but change to a regular smartphone and use google family app for parental controls.

shaklee3 2y ago

This is exactly what the Fitbit Ace LTE does. So far it's been great since my daughter has no desire to ask anything else on it besides increase physical activity to get prizes

w10-1 2y ago

The iPhone has restricted access mode, to limit access to bad stuff, typically used for child gateways. It also has assistive access mode, which only permits access to good stuff, mostly to simplify UI's for the elderly, et al. Both put the burden of integration on the configuring user, who basically becomes the system UI designer with a limited and awkward palette. A nice feature in either case would be a way to edit, package and share or sell such configurations. Indeed, I could see Apple building out this capability as a product line architecture supporting enterprise, health, and childhood/education.

cjpearson 2y ago

I'm not a parent, but I see why someone might want to always know exactly where there child is and invest in anything which might improve their safety. On the other hand, raising children without GPS surveillance seemed to work pretty well for many years. Is saying something like "Put on your timex and be back home by 6." no longer feasible? (Or if you want be even more old school "by sundown".)

xrd 2y ago

Yes. The Timex smart watch is perfect for this. You can find them on eBay for $20. You can get a SIM that works with T-Mobile usually. The only issue is that sometimes they are locked and getting them unlocked is some work. But I love these watches. I'm using the watch for older people. There is a sport watch, which I think has an esim. I have one of these but haven't been able to use it yet. Feel free to ask me more over email if you want. It's on my profile page. I definitely went down the rabbit hole on finding this watch and it was a doozy.

gwbas1c 2y ago

Our friends basically locked down an old phone to just the apps they approve of. Their 8-year-old is home alone for about an hour after school, and they don't have a landline. We plugged in an old phone to a wall outlet, and just keep it locked with a pin. It allows for emergency calls. There is almost always someone home, so we don't feel the need to allow our kids to call us. Another set of friends trusts their 11-year-old with full access.