4 ms·
That's true of nearly everything in this space. You'll find lots and lots of comments below about PFAS and Teflon pans, for example, ranging from factual-but-mi
by timr 2y ago
That's true of nearly everything in this space. You'll find lots and lots of comments below about PFAS and Teflon pans, for example, ranging from factual-but-misleading (e.g. "Teflon pans can emit harmful gases when overheated") to bald assertions (multiple variations on "Teflon pans are harmful to your health") with no context or specificity to the claim.
Setting aside the fact that the purported harms (if specified at all!) are nearly always based on confounded observational studies and/or animal models at doses that may not bear any relationship to the doses you're being exposed to in real life, the claims for any particular item are usually presented out of context. For example, is exposure at X<10 parts per billion compound Y meaningful, as a human who lives in the real world? Typically, nobody knows, but you can nearly always find an "expert" who will confidently claim that any exposure is "dangerous."
Skepticism and awareness of risk magnitude is essential when reading stuff like this. Academics who specialize in obscure areas love to get their name in the press, and the easiest way to do that is to go to a reporter and make vague and irresponsible claims about risks to human health, even if those risks are very, very small. [1]
For what it's worth, I have a Teflon pan, I've used black plastic spatulas in the past, and I'm not worried about it. Compared to the reasons I already know that I'm likely to die, these things are irrelevant.
[1] Case in point: I knew a tenured professor at a prestigious university who was absolutely convinced that if we all continued to eat beef, we'd be looking at an epidemic of vCJK (aka Mad Cow Disease). Saw a lecture from this person on the subject over a decade ago now, where the risks were presented as looming and absolute. We're still eating beef. Guess what hasn't happened since then?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- russdill 2y agoAn overheating Teflon pan nearly killed my pet birds. I don't see how that's a factual but misleading statement.
- Ninjinka 2y agoCanary in the coal mine!
- xattt 2y agoCanary in an kitchen with an overheated Teflon pan. (1) https://www.buffalobirdnerd.com/storage/app/media/Teflon.pdf https://www.buffalobirdnerd.com/storage/app/media/Teflon.pdf
- csallen 2y agoChocolate nearly killed my pet dog. Factual, but misleading in an article about health risks to humans.
- whatshisface 2y agoNobody's claiming that the gasses aren't toxic to humans, the they are saying that they do not overheat their pans.
- zeroonetwothree 2y agoThey aren’t very toxic to humans either.
- genuinelydang 2y agoOverheat your Teflon pan, take a good huff, wait a few hours and post that comment again. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_fume_fever ”When PTFE is heated above 450 °C the pyrolysis products are different and inhalation may cause acute lung injury. Symptoms are flu-like (chills, headaches and fevers) with chest tightness and mild cough. Onset occurs about 4 to 8 hours after exposure to the pyrolysis products of PTFE.” There is basically no safe limit for these chemicals — EPA limit for drinking water is 4 ppt. U.S. residents already have average blood PFAS levels to the tune of 4000 ppt.
- lupusreal 2y ago> irresponsible claims Worst case scenario here is people throw out their relatively harmless spatulas and buy new ones. Big whoop.
- dylan604 2y agoAfter careful research, it turns out this conspiracy was actually started as a sales promotion by Spatula City! I have just as much evidence of this as most other theories
- genuinelydang 2y agoJoke’s on you, the same chemical conglomerates manufacture Teflon _and_ the plastic used in plastic cookware!
- dylan604 2y agoAnd who do you think owns Spatula City?
- hcurtiss 2y agoAgreed. So much hyperventilating about risks that, in context (e.g., driving, open water swimming, alcohol, tylenol), are infinitesimally small. Risk is a difficult subject for lay people to understand, and there are many professions built entirely on that human weakness.
- a123b456c 2y ago> Academics who specialize in obscure areas love to get their name in the press, and the easiest way to do that is to go to a reporter and make vague and irresponsible claims about risks to human health, even if those risks are very, very small. I won't deny that many such academics exist. And yet... The numerous successful academics at reputable universities that I know (including me) are uniformly mortified when our names are associated with mistaken interpretations in the press. Some of us (including me) simply stop doing press interviews because it happens so often. If you want to find an incentive to get undeserved attention, I recommend you look at economic incentives within the press itself. Too much time pressure, not enough training, desperate need to gather attention to sell ads. All the opposite of the academic world.
- mmooss 2y ago> If you want to find an incentive to get undeserved attention I think social media - such as HN comments that shoot down almost every OP without fail - is by far the best example? Most comments on social media on such things seek attention for being smarter-than-though and have no basis in anything, including the comment at the top of this thread by 'gidmkhealthnerd'. > All the opposite of the academic world. The pure academic world and the evil Media! If you're an academic, maybe we can something better than joining the mob against the bogeyman.
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago> such as HN comments that shoot down almost every OP without fail If the OP can't handle criticism it's hard to argue that the attention is deserved
- timr 2y ago> The numerous successful academics at reputable universities that I know (including me) are uniformly mortified when our names are associated with mistaken interpretations in the press. Some of us (including me) simply stop doing press interviews because it happens so often. Absolutely! You're one of the good ones! I just wish you were in the majority. :-( Edit: that's unfair. I don't know if you're in the majority or minority. I want to believe that most academics are still just silently plugging away and doing good work. It just really feels like things have shifted to the huckster side of the spectrum, and/or that is what is rewarded.
- tourmalinetaco 2y agoIt’s similar to climate scares, a decade ago people were saying that various coastal cities would be underwater by now and they aren’t even close. It’s alarmist propaganda from bored people. Sure, the climate is important, just as PFAS and mad cow all are, but pushing what amounts to conspiracy theories doesn’t solve it. And, personally, “climate change” isn’t even the big issue when we have unimaginably large trash islands in the ocean. First we have to solve multinational corporate pollution before we can worry about terraforming our planet.
- account42 2y agoTeflon pans are shit even if they don't poison you because they are too easy to break and even if you treat them carefully they never last very long. But you should also consider that only one or a few people championing for change is how safty has historically improved. We have had too many cases of industries knowingly poisinging people for profits while funding studies that say everything is fine and marginalizing the few reasearches who have morals and don't just go after the biggest profits to discard concerns like this just because there is only one person championing them.