4 ms·

Jaywalking is any crossing in a wrong / illegal way, not about intersections specifically. Mostly it's about not using crosswalks, so I don't see how it collide

by vasco 2y ago

Jaywalking is any crossing in a wrong / illegal way, not about intersections specifically. Mostly it's about not using crosswalks, so I don't see how it collides with what Europe does. In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road. And then you have countries where the crosswalk lights are mere decorations.

e1g 2y ago
I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.
- pm3003 2y ago
  Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store. She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the problem was so I crossed back, to much drama. She (or her boyfriend) later told me there was a long-running campaign during the 90s aiming to curb pedestrian death, that featured vivid TV spots showing kids die because they routinely saw adults jaywalking and imitated them. So jaywalking = killing children. Also German children of all ages are encouraged to say to jaywalkers "You're not a good example for the children.". It happened to me more than once.
  - bell-cot 2y ago
    When there might plausibly be little kids watching, I make sure I'm very obvious about checking for oncoming traffic. Repeatedly. Before & during crossing the road. Where onlooking kiddies seem implausible, I pretty much do the same thing. Far better to be an obvious chicken than dead right.
  - macintux 2y ago
    I was observing a parade once and stepped into the stopped traffic to talk to a driver about his vehicle. I felt terrible later when I realized I had set a dangerous example for all of the kids around.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    This is also very much the agitprop in Russia, although in practice people mostly just ignore it. Sometimes in very frustrating ways, too, like crossing the road on red in front of an ambulance with the emergency light on.
timomaxgalvin 2y ago
The distinction is about pedestrians being forced to use crossings. In the UK you can use them, but you can cross where you like if you want to.
- Grimbat 2y ago
  Not entirely true. Generally true in England & Wales and Scotland aside from motorways, but in Northern Ireland the cops can fine you for it, although it rarely seems to be enforced. https://www.psni.police.uk/sites/default/files/2023-01/00008%20-%20Jaywalking%20.pdf https://www.psni.police.uk/sites/default/files/2023-01/00008...
- Delphiza 2y ago
  Also in the UK we have pedestrian refuge islands. Not a crossing, as there is no pedestrian priority, but useful little bits of road furniture that reduces the likelihood of getting mown down by cars. As a side effect they also tend to slow down car traffic due to narrowing of the road. Americans may see them as official jaywalking points. https://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-island.shtml https://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-isla...
IshKebab 2y ago
Which countries obey crossing lights as strictly as you describe? I've been to lots of European countries and none were like that. Not in the way that the US is.
- vasco 2y ago
  Parts of Germany, lots of Poland, Austria, etc. South Europe where I'm from is "decoration land", but the more east you go the harsher they are/were with enforcement so the more people abide.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    In countries where open police corruption is more routine, cops love enforcing such laws because it's a very low-effort to extort bribes. Not even because the fine is significant, but because the procedure to pay it once given a ticket may be rather onerous compared to just handing over a banknote and going on your way.
- keiferski 2y ago
  Germany and Poland both do this.
  - pm3003 2y ago
    In Poland I always respect the pedestrian lights. Contrary to France and even Germany, drivers expect you to respect them, and especially in Warsaw there is a very high tolerance on speeding on big wide arters. Cars crossing intersections at speeds of more than 90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) are usual in Warsaw.
    - nobody9999 2y ago
      >90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) As an American, I had to do the math on that -- which is really annoying. If you want to provide us with something we can understand, it's furlongs per fortnight, not per minute. ;)
    - 2y ago
olliej 2y ago
Jaywalking is a pedestrian crossing outside of explicitly designated crossings points. In the US that means by *default( any pedestrian crossing any street at any location other than a pedestrian crossing or an intersection, regardless of distance to such a point. There is a massive difference between "country culturally tends towards using designated crossing points" and "it's a criminal offense to not use them". I'm curious about which countries outside of the US, especially in Europe, that criminalize jaywalking.
- GuB-42 2y ago
  If France, the law states that a pedestrians should use designated crossing points if one is available within 50 meters. Crossing at a red light is also illegal. It is punishable with a 4€ fixed fine. I don't know of any lesser punishable crime and it is rarely enforced in practice despite jaywalking being common. But it is still a crime.
- int_19h 2y ago
  It's a spectrum. E.g. in Russia it's illegal to cross the road if there's a crosswalk or intersection visible from the point where you cross it (and cops will fine you for it - or rather, attempt to extort a bribe).
rsynnott 2y ago
> In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road I think that's mostly just certain parts of Germany.
- Attrecomet 2y ago
  It was a fun evening with the guys from Bavaria in Berlin

by vasco 2y ago

e1g 2y ago

I had an identity crisis in Germany when, at 2am on a deserted road, a group of hooligan-looking teenage boys told me off for crossing on red.

pm3003 2y ago
Something like that happened to me on my first day as an adult in Germany. Wide road, Sunday afternoon, visibility over 1km in both directions, not a car in sight. I was accompanied by a girl from the place where I was to work. I had just met her and she was showing me to the nearby convenience store. She suddenly started screaming when I crossed the street while the pedestrian light was red. I didn't get what the problem was so I crossed back, to much drama. She (or her boyfriend) later told me there was a long-running campaign during the 90s aiming to curb pedestrian death, that featured vivid TV spots showing kids die because they routinely saw adults jaywalking and imitated them. So jaywalking = killing children. Also German children of all ages are encouraged to say to jaywalkers "You're not a good example for the children.". It happened to me more than once.
- bell-cot 2y ago
  When there might plausibly be little kids watching, I make sure I'm very obvious about checking for oncoming traffic. Repeatedly. Before & during crossing the road. Where onlooking kiddies seem implausible, I pretty much do the same thing. Far better to be an obvious chicken than dead right.
- macintux 2y ago
  I was observing a parade once and stepped into the stopped traffic to talk to a driver about his vehicle. I felt terrible later when I realized I had set a dangerous example for all of the kids around.
- int_19h 2y ago
  This is also very much the agitprop in Russia, although in practice people mostly just ignore it. Sometimes in very frustrating ways, too, like crossing the road on red in front of an ambulance with the emergency light on.

timomaxgalvin 2y ago

The distinction is about pedestrians being forced to use crossings. In the UK you can use them, but you can cross where you like if you want to.

Grimbat 2y ago
Not entirely true. Generally true in England & Wales and Scotland aside from motorways, but in Northern Ireland the cops can fine you for it, although it rarely seems to be enforced. https://www.psni.police.uk/sites/default/files/2023-01/00008%20-%20Jaywalking%20.pdf https://www.psni.police.uk/sites/default/files/2023-01/00008...
Delphiza 2y ago
Also in the UK we have pedestrian refuge islands. Not a crossing, as there is no pedestrian priority, but useful little bits of road furniture that reduces the likelihood of getting mown down by cars. As a side effect they also tend to slow down car traffic due to narrowing of the road. Americans may see them as official jaywalking points. https://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-island.shtml https://www.trafficchoices.co.uk/traffic-schemes/refuge-isla...

IshKebab 2y ago

Which countries obey crossing lights as strictly as you describe? I've been to lots of European countries and none were like that. Not in the way that the US is.

vasco 2y ago
Parts of Germany, lots of Poland, Austria, etc. South Europe where I'm from is "decoration land", but the more east you go the harsher they are/were with enforcement so the more people abide.
- int_19h 2y ago
  In countries where open police corruption is more routine, cops love enforcing such laws because it's a very low-effort to extort bribes. Not even because the fine is significant, but because the procedure to pay it once given a ticket may be rather onerous compared to just handing over a banknote and going on your way.
keiferski 2y ago
Germany and Poland both do this.
- pm3003 2y ago
  In Poland I always respect the pedestrian lights. Contrary to France and even Germany, drivers expect you to respect them, and especially in Warsaw there is a very high tolerance on speeding on big wide arters. Cars crossing intersections at speeds of more than 90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) are usual in Warsaw.
  - nobody9999 2y ago
    >90km/h (7.8 furlongs per minute for Americans) As an American, I had to do the math on that -- which is really annoying. If you want to provide us with something we can understand, it's furlongs per fortnight, not per minute. ;)
  - 2y ago

olliej 2y ago

Jaywalking is a pedestrian crossing outside of explicitly designated crossings points. In the US that means by *default( any pedestrian crossing any street at any location other than a pedestrian crossing or an intersection, regardless of distance to such a point. There is a massive difference between "country culturally tends towards using designated crossing points" and "it's a criminal offense to not use them". I'm curious about which countries outside of the US, especially in Europe, that criminalize jaywalking.

GuB-42 2y ago
If France, the law states that a pedestrians should use designated crossing points if one is available within 50 meters. Crossing at a red light is also illegal. It is punishable with a 4€ fixed fine. I don't know of any lesser punishable crime and it is rarely enforced in practice despite jaywalking being common. But it is still a crime.
int_19h 2y ago
It's a spectrum. E.g. in Russia it's illegal to cross the road if there's a crosswalk or intersection visible from the point where you cross it (and cops will fine you for it - or rather, attempt to extort a bribe).

rsynnott 2y ago

> In Europe you also have differences with some countries where crosswalk lights are as a mandate from God and nobody will cross even at 2am deserted road I think that's mostly just certain parts of Germany.

Attrecomet 2y ago
It was a fun evening with the guys from Bavaria in Berlin