4 ms·

Seems pretty plausible to me. But as usual, there's a reason this piece wasnt published - it's not great.

praptak 2y ago
Mediocre pieces by otherwise great creators have huge value at the meta level. They add to the evidence that greatness is more than just being born a genius and then just cranking out masterpieces.
- mathgeek 2y ago
  Do folks generally still believe that the "masters" are/were born great, rather than being born with an advantage of some sort (whether by nature or environment) and then leveraging that to achieve mastery of some craft?
  - detourdog 2y ago
    I don't know about born "great" but born with a different perspective seems reasonable. The perspective maybe nurtured by the environment. I think the environment could be a repetitive task or plenty of leisure time. I believe luck with timing is the biggest determination.
  - stevage 2y ago
    I do. There was nothing particularly special about Chopin's environment, yet he was cranking out brilliant, innovative works by his early teens.
- mvkel 2y ago
  Great point. Vonnegut comes to mind in literature. In one of his novels, he even grades his other works A-F based on how good he thinks they were. His grades seem remarkably accurate, too, given my subjectivity as a reader, and his bias as the author. Seems like the passage of time has a role in accentuating the genius of artists
  - sitkack 2y ago
    > passage of time has a role in accentuating the genius of artists That makes sense, I think genius is time evolving process. One pattern, I have seen in high performers, is that they are competing only with themselves, using introspective feedback to continuously improve in an ego free way.
    - mvkel 2y ago
      Yes. If you come to conclusions independently and those conclusions survive positively for hundreds of years, credit is due
scottcha 2y ago
Chopins posthumously published Nocturne in C# minor is a very popular piece to play/listen to. I also think there are several Debussy pieces he didn’t want published but are very popular now (maybe Reverie is one if my memory serves me)
- stevage 2y ago
  Ok that's fair, I play it myself. Though it's also pretty weird in its middle section.
motohagiography 2y ago
After decades of liking his work, I learned one of his little preludes recently and now he's just freddy the disconsolate schmaltzmeister to me. the discovery seems too late, nobody is going to be that maudlin again.
- djtango 2y ago
  I was obsessed with Chopin for a while then went off his music for many years. I have had a resurgence in my interest in his music. Probably due to the Chopin competition rekindled it alongside with finally getting hold of a piano again. The etudes are timeless
  - stevage 2y ago
    Have you tried the new Chopin podcast by Ben Laude?
    - djtango 2y ago
      My YouTube has been blasting it at me. I unfortunately have been quite short of time lately but I did really enjoy the video that Garrick Ohlsson put out on Chopin Piano Innovations https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUdMi27qWg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUdMi27qWg
      - stevage 2y ago
        Me too, but honestly I love almost everything from those two.
- vixen99 2y ago
  Maybe unintentionally, the word ‘little’ is quite dismissive. Perhaps you’re thinking of one of the three very minor Preludes which no one plays and not included in the 24 Preludes Opus 28. If you do mean something like the 4th Prelude in E Minor for instance, should it be prefaced with a trigger warning that ‘you're about to hear music that is - effusively sad or full of self-pity; extremely sentimental or 'tearful; easily moved to tears; exciting to tears; excessively sentimental; weak and silly? (American Heritage Dictionary definition of maudlin). Written much later, would you regard Rachmaninov's Vocalise (1915) or Barber's Adagio (1936) as 'maudlin' not to mention a vast number of other compositions that explore the kind of intensity of feeling that is expressed in the 4th Chopin Prelude. Given that the pianist Alfred Brendel considers ‘Chopin’s Preludes as the most glorious achievement in piano music after Beethoven and Schubert’ you might wonder why he takes a somewhat view from you. Could you be missing something?
epolanski 2y ago
1) I absolutely loved the execution by Lang Lang of it. 2) You're really looking at this in terms of modern music industry, which is nonsense, Chopin created music for his friends too and would send them the scripts.

Mediocre pieces by otherwise great creators have huge value at the meta level. They add to the evidence that greatness is more than just being born a genius and then just cranking out masterpieces.

mathgeek 2y ago
Do folks generally still believe that the "masters" are/were born great, rather than being born with an advantage of some sort (whether by nature or environment) and then leveraging that to achieve mastery of some craft?
- detourdog 2y ago
  I don't know about born "great" but born with a different perspective seems reasonable. The perspective maybe nurtured by the environment. I think the environment could be a repetitive task or plenty of leisure time. I believe luck with timing is the biggest determination.
- stevage 2y ago
  I do. There was nothing particularly special about Chopin's environment, yet he was cranking out brilliant, innovative works by his early teens.
mvkel 2y ago
Great point. Vonnegut comes to mind in literature. In one of his novels, he even grades his other works A-F based on how good he thinks they were. His grades seem remarkably accurate, too, given my subjectivity as a reader, and his bias as the author. Seems like the passage of time has a role in accentuating the genius of artists
- sitkack 2y ago
  > passage of time has a role in accentuating the genius of artists That makes sense, I think genius is time evolving process. One pattern, I have seen in high performers, is that they are competing only with themselves, using introspective feedback to continuously improve in an ego free way.
  - mvkel 2y ago
    Yes. If you come to conclusions independently and those conclusions survive positively for hundreds of years, credit is due

scottcha 2y ago

Chopins posthumously published Nocturne in C# minor is a very popular piece to play/listen to. I also think there are several Debussy pieces he didn’t want published but are very popular now (maybe Reverie is one if my memory serves me)

stevage 2y ago
Ok that's fair, I play it myself. Though it's also pretty weird in its middle section.

motohagiography 2y ago

After decades of liking his work, I learned one of his little preludes recently and now he's just freddy the disconsolate schmaltzmeister to me. the discovery seems too late, nobody is going to be that maudlin again.

djtango 2y ago
I was obsessed with Chopin for a while then went off his music for many years. I have had a resurgence in my interest in his music. Probably due to the Chopin competition rekindled it alongside with finally getting hold of a piano again. The etudes are timeless
- stevage 2y ago
  Have you tried the new Chopin podcast by Ben Laude?
  - djtango 2y ago
    My YouTube has been blasting it at me. I unfortunately have been quite short of time lately but I did really enjoy the video that Garrick Ohlsson put out on Chopin Piano Innovations https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUdMi27qWg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1DUdMi27qWg
    - stevage 2y ago
      Me too, but honestly I love almost everything from those two.
vixen99 2y ago
Maybe unintentionally, the word ‘little’ is quite dismissive. Perhaps you’re thinking of one of the three very minor Preludes which no one plays and not included in the 24 Preludes Opus 28. If you do mean something like the 4th Prelude in E Minor for instance, should it be prefaced with a trigger warning that ‘you're about to hear music that is - effusively sad or full of self-pity; extremely sentimental or 'tearful; easily moved to tears; exciting to tears; excessively sentimental; weak and silly? (American Heritage Dictionary definition of maudlin). Written much later, would you regard Rachmaninov's Vocalise (1915) or Barber's Adagio (1936) as 'maudlin' not to mention a vast number of other compositions that explore the kind of intensity of feeling that is expressed in the 4th Chopin Prelude. Given that the pianist Alfred Brendel considers ‘Chopin’s Preludes as the most glorious achievement in piano music after Beethoven and Schubert’ you might wonder why he takes a somewhat view from you. Could you be missing something?

epolanski 2y ago

1) I absolutely loved the execution by Lang Lang of it. 2) You're really looking at this in terms of modern music industry, which is nonsense, Chopin created music for his friends too and would send them the scripts.