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Ikigai is a great branding for Japan. They’ve taken a word, declared it untranslatable and a unique component of Japanese culture. Denmark has done the same wi

Ikigai is a great branding for Japan. They’ve taken a word, declared it untranslatable and a unique component of Japanese culture. Denmark has done the same with the word “Hygge” and you’ll find books named “hygge”, next to books named “ikigai” in self-help section of any airport bookstore. I don’t think discussing ikigai is uninteresting, but there is a feedback loop. Japanese soft power benefits from ikigai being special, and books and articles about ikigai also benefits from it being unique and special. The more books you can sell on ikigai, the stronger Japans cultural influence becomes and as a result, the potential readership of ikigai book grows.

deleted 2y ago
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gwervc 2y ago
> They’ve taken a word, declared it untranslatable and a unique component of Japanese culture. Pretty sure this is foreigners who did this. On the other hand, a lot of Japanese are convinced they're living in the only country with 4 seasons.
- camgunz 2y ago
  This reminded me of Japanese micro seasons [0] which I found delightful. 0: https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00124/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00124/
  - helb 2y ago
    I have these in my google calendar. Kinda forgot they were japanese and they don't line up with our (european) weather perfectly, but i still enjoy seeing them there. Found them on HN years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20377098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20377098
    - DavideNL 2y ago
      Thanks for the link!
- pezezin 2y ago
  Ah yes, the beautiful four seasons of Japan: rain, more rain, a fuckload of rain, and snow /s
  - hammyhavoc 2y ago
    Dwelling in England, I'll take it. At least the scenery in Japan is gorgeous, the food is delicious, and the indie music scene is lovely. Plenty to love.
    - pezezin 2y ago
      - The scenery might be gorgeous, but the cities are depressingly ugly, and the roads are garbage, so reaching said scenery might take you several hours of driving and then what? - Any food is delicious compared to English food /s - I don't know about the indie music scene, because I live deep in the countryside. - Bonus track: the Japanese society can be very difficult for a Western person to adjust. After six years here, I feel like I have failed and I really want to go back to Europe.
    - sph 2y ago
      Are you really dissing the entire English indie music scene? You might not like it, but England has been creating musicians and defining whole genres non-stop since the 1960s (Beatles, Led Zeppelin, heavy metal, punk rock, psychedelic rock, jungle, the entire rave scene, The Prodigy, dnb, uk garage, the whole 2010s indie rock, dubstep, UK drill, etc.) Japan seems to have a lot of small, very talented indie bands that basically are emulating and/or fusing Western genres together (jazz, funk, metal, etc.)
InfiniteLoup 2y ago
There are a number of books about supposedly “unique” cultural phenomena like this one: - Niksen (Dutch) - Sisu (Finnish) - Döstädning (Swedish) - Lagom (Swedish) - Réussir sans forcer (French) - Raising Self-Reliant Children (German) - Wabi Sabi (Japanese) I wonder what other unique cultural concepts HN users have come across (perhaps from their own culture)?
- cwmoore 2y ago
  - Freedom (US) I would like to see the Venn diagram for it? Here’s ikigai’s: https://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/pensights/finding-lifes-meaning-quest-discover-ikigai-pen-august-2017/ https://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/pensights/finding-l...
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    > the Venn diagram ( ijawfnltl: ( f ) af ) ijawfnltl = is just another word for nothing left to lose f = freedom af = ain't free Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc
- d-trieu 2y ago
  > Döstädning I've never heard of this despite living in Sweden for over 30 years
  - wodenokoto 2y ago
    I would have thought the Swedish word encapsulating a better life, would have been “fika” Anyway, death cleaning seems more like a small Maria Kondo moment for Sweden than an actual cultural thing https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a45190/what-is-swedish-death-cleaning/ https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a451...
- marttt 2y ago
  Estonians as "forest people" -- Estonian researchers tracing the roots of this myth here: https://keeljakirjandus.ee/en/archives/26316 https://keeljakirjandus.ee/en/archives/26316 A full-length article by the same scholars: https://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol81/remmel_jonuks.pdf https://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol81/remmel_jonuks.pdf FWIW, I'm by no means trying to be cynical, especially considering that I do some (lighter) forestry work myself, have done lots of tree planting and definitely love being in the wilderness. Forest and nature do play a central role in our cultural heritage. Currently, however, other members of this same society carry out massive clear-cuttings in our forests. So... this is "us" as well, I guess. Demolishing and praising, side by side. That's why the work of these referred two scholars is really interesting, maybe even corageous in a way, considering that "forest wars" are a huge topic in Estonia these days.
nabla9 2y ago
Foreigners, especially journalists, do this in every article about Japan. Easy template: ____ the Japanese art of ____. For example: O-shiri-o-kaku the Japanese art of ass scratching. They do it with thumb or something.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
  I saw a coffee ad yesterday waxing poetic about the calmness and ancient history of traditional Japanese kissaten and my eyes just about rolled out of my head. It's totally unlike an American coffeehouse, you see, because they use dark roasts.
left-struck 2y ago
To add to this, I would argue that ikigai can be directly translated to purpose in English. Sure purpose has additional meanings, and ikigai has a philosophy behind it which one word like “purpose” does not convey, but if you use purpose in a sentence that has something to do with how you find meaning in life and a reason to go on, then people will correctly understand your meaning. If purpose is not good enough then try “a reason for being” “a reason to live” etc Maybe people are confusing describing a whole philosophical concept with translating a word
alentred 2y ago
This is one of the reasons I didn't like "The Toyota Way" book. I have read it after I have been exposed to the theory of constraints and some other knowledge about production organization, and I was turned off about all the "mystery". Same thing about meditation. Tried so many times and failed. Finally acquired the skill with a good self-hypnosis book. Appreciate the meditation/self-hypnosis ever after. In both cases, I think highly about these ideas and practices, be it "ikigai" or "a reason for being", "muda" or "eliminating bottlenecks", "meditation" or "trance". Each person has their own way to understand these and either is fine when it works, but the artificial mysticism is disappointing. --- Yet, it is interesting to observe that "ikigai" needs several words to be translated to English. I suppose it reflects the the importance of the concept in the culture. Like the 50 eskimo words for snow.
- Cpoll 2y ago
  > meditation/self-hypnosis That's an interesting comparison. What's the name of the book?
  - alentred 2y ago
    I personally read this one: "Self-Hypnosis" by Peter Lambrou, and Brian M. Alman
soraminazuki 2y ago
If there was a massive push for "ikigai" either within Japan or outside of it, I totally missed it. To me, this looks one of those articles written by some random bureaucrat that no one really reads. Regarding the article, there are indeed many words and phrases that can't really be translated to English. I don't think "ikigai" is one of them, though. It's called a purpose.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

gwervc 2y ago

> They’ve taken a word, declared it untranslatable and a unique component of Japanese culture. Pretty sure this is foreigners who did this. On the other hand, a lot of Japanese are convinced they're living in the only country with 4 seasons.

camgunz 2y ago
This reminded me of Japanese micro seasons [0] which I found delightful. 0: https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00124/ https://www.nippon.com/en/features/h00124/
- helb 2y ago
  I have these in my google calendar. Kinda forgot they were japanese and they don't line up with our (european) weather perfectly, but i still enjoy seeing them there. Found them on HN years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20377098 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20377098
  - DavideNL 2y ago
    Thanks for the link!
pezezin 2y ago
Ah yes, the beautiful four seasons of Japan: rain, more rain, a fuckload of rain, and snow /s
- hammyhavoc 2y ago
  Dwelling in England, I'll take it. At least the scenery in Japan is gorgeous, the food is delicious, and the indie music scene is lovely. Plenty to love.
  - pezezin 2y ago
    - The scenery might be gorgeous, but the cities are depressingly ugly, and the roads are garbage, so reaching said scenery might take you several hours of driving and then what? - Any food is delicious compared to English food /s - I don't know about the indie music scene, because I live deep in the countryside. - Bonus track: the Japanese society can be very difficult for a Western person to adjust. After six years here, I feel like I have failed and I really want to go back to Europe.
  - sph 2y ago
    Are you really dissing the entire English indie music scene? You might not like it, but England has been creating musicians and defining whole genres non-stop since the 1960s (Beatles, Led Zeppelin, heavy metal, punk rock, psychedelic rock, jungle, the entire rave scene, The Prodigy, dnb, uk garage, the whole 2010s indie rock, dubstep, UK drill, etc.) Japan seems to have a lot of small, very talented indie bands that basically are emulating and/or fusing Western genres together (jazz, funk, metal, etc.)

InfiniteLoup 2y ago

There are a number of books about supposedly “unique” cultural phenomena like this one: - Niksen (Dutch) - Sisu (Finnish) - Döstädning (Swedish) - Lagom (Swedish) - Réussir sans forcer (French) - Raising Self-Reliant Children (German) - Wabi Sabi (Japanese) I wonder what other unique cultural concepts HN users have come across (perhaps from their own culture)?

cwmoore 2y ago
- Freedom (US) I would like to see the Venn diagram for it? Here’s ikigai’s: https://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/pensights/finding-lifes-meaning-quest-discover-ikigai-pen-august-2017/ https://performanceexcellencenetwork.org/pensights/finding-l...
- 082349872349872 2y ago
  > the Venn diagram ( ijawfnltl: ( f ) af ) ijawfnltl = is just another word for nothing left to lose f = freedom af = ain't free Lagniappe: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZtnqnV2Jc
d-trieu 2y ago
> Döstädning I've never heard of this despite living in Sweden for over 30 years
- wodenokoto 2y ago
  I would have thought the Swedish word encapsulating a better life, would have been “fika” Anyway, death cleaning seems more like a small Maria Kondo moment for Sweden than an actual cultural thing https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a45190/what-is-swedish-death-cleaning/ https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a451...
marttt 2y ago
Estonians as "forest people" -- Estonian researchers tracing the roots of this myth here: https://keeljakirjandus.ee/en/archives/26316 https://keeljakirjandus.ee/en/archives/26316 A full-length article by the same scholars: https://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol81/remmel_jonuks.pdf https://www.folklore.ee/folklore/vol81/remmel_jonuks.pdf FWIW, I'm by no means trying to be cynical, especially considering that I do some (lighter) forestry work myself, have done lots of tree planting and definitely love being in the wilderness. Forest and nature do play a central role in our cultural heritage. Currently, however, other members of this same society carry out massive clear-cuttings in our forests. So... this is "us" as well, I guess. Demolishing and praising, side by side. That's why the work of these referred two scholars is really interesting, maybe even corageous in a way, considering that "forest wars" are a huge topic in Estonia these days.

nabla9 2y ago

Foreigners, especially journalists, do this in every article about Japan. Easy template: ____ the Japanese art of ____. For example: O-shiri-o-kaku the Japanese art of ass scratching. They do it with thumb or something.

SpicyLemonZest 2y ago
I saw a coffee ad yesterday waxing poetic about the calmness and ancient history of traditional Japanese kissaten and my eyes just about rolled out of my head. It's totally unlike an American coffeehouse, you see, because they use dark roasts.

left-struck 2y ago

To add to this, I would argue that ikigai can be directly translated to purpose in English. Sure purpose has additional meanings, and ikigai has a philosophy behind it which one word like “purpose” does not convey, but if you use purpose in a sentence that has something to do with how you find meaning in life and a reason to go on, then people will correctly understand your meaning. If purpose is not good enough then try “a reason for being” “a reason to live” etc Maybe people are confusing describing a whole philosophical concept with translating a word

alentred 2y ago

This is one of the reasons I didn't like "The Toyota Way" book. I have read it after I have been exposed to the theory of constraints and some other knowledge about production organization, and I was turned off about all the "mystery". Same thing about meditation. Tried so many times and failed. Finally acquired the skill with a good self-hypnosis book. Appreciate the meditation/self-hypnosis ever after. In both cases, I think highly about these ideas and practices, be it "ikigai" or "a reason for being", "muda" or "eliminating bottlenecks", "meditation" or "trance". Each person has their own way to understand these and either is fine when it works, but the artificial mysticism is disappointing. --- Yet, it is interesting to observe that "ikigai" needs several words to be translated to English. I suppose it reflects the the importance of the concept in the culture. Like the 50 eskimo words for snow.

Cpoll 2y ago
> meditation/self-hypnosis That's an interesting comparison. What's the name of the book?
- alentred 2y ago
  I personally read this one: "Self-Hypnosis" by Peter Lambrou, and Brian M. Alman

soraminazuki 2y ago

If there was a massive push for "ikigai" either within Japan or outside of it, I totally missed it. To me, this looks one of those articles written by some random bureaucrat that no one really reads. Regarding the article, there are indeed many words and phrases that can't really be translated to English. I don't think "ikigai" is one of them, though. It's called a purpose.