6 ms·

I work in an art university and a surprising amount of new (underground/experimental) musicians release their music on casettes. If you wanna sell music on con

by atoav 2y ago

I work in an art university and a surprising amount of new (underground/experimental) musicians release their music on casettes. If you wanna sell music on concerts vinyl is too expensive/you would have to upfront too much money, CDs are dead, casettes however had some sort of revival. Vinyl is still king in those circles, but it requres you to be able to realistically finance and sell a run of 250 pieces to be economical. I saw people buy casettes (with a download code) while not having a player — it is a neat physical artifact for some.

badgersnake 2y ago
CDRs just make more sense here in every way. Higher quality, cheaper to produce and les degradation. Fucking hipsters.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  Most of the artists I'm familiar with that release on cassette tapes are vaporwave or adjacent and sell their work as DRM-free lossless FLAC files on Bandcamp as well, so there's really no downside for the artist or the audience.
  - jareklupinski 2y ago
    i love vaporwave on cassettes, because the medium lends itself to the art you never know if that flutter / wow effect was originally in the song or coming from the deck
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - badgersnake 2y ago
      Art has to be deliberate surely? What you’re describing is just noise I would say. But we’re getting philosophocal.
      - aspenmayer 2y ago
        Art has to be deliberate?! Don't tell Duchamp! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_object https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_object https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp > Types of readymades > Readymades - un-altered objects > Assisted readymades - putting several readymades together taking away their use > Rectified readymades - an altered or marked readymade > Corrected readymades > Reciprocal readymades - a unique art work presented as a mass-produced utilitarian object
      - exitb 2y ago
        Choosing a medium that carries particular characteristic can be a deliberate choice.
        neuralRiot 2y ago
        Like film grain or contrast. Still love the look of pushed kodak tri-x.
      - atoav 2y ago
        With an art definition from before the first world war, maybe.
- vr46 2y ago
  Only if you assume people are after the music and not a cool artifact, memento or souvenir.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    How is a CD-R not also an artifact, memento, or souvenir?
    - vr46 2y ago
      It misses the "cool" bit
      - aspenmayer 2y ago
        To follow-on: Niche physical releases are cool because they're intentionally obscure and for fans, by fans, and explicitly for certain subcultures or even collectors within those subcultures. I've seen floppy disk and Nintendo DS cartridge releases. There are even more formats out there you can (re)release on: https://www.dookiedemastered.com/ https://www.dookiedemastered.com/ Previously on HN (788 points 16 days ago 205 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41790295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41790295
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        >Niche physical releases are cool Um, CDs are also "niche physical releases" these days. They're not quite as old-fashioned as cassettes or vinyl, but they're still generally considered "obsolete" now with streaming music services.
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        Not nearly niche enough for some hypebeasts, but nothing wrong with CDs in and of themselves. I think finding ways to recontextualize the experience of owning and listening are worthwhile.
        2y ago
- cbolton 2y ago
  Cassettes are more expensive and worse quality, but significantly more robust in typical use until you put it in a bad device (or hands) that gets the tape out. I've given cassettes to a 3 year old, and they all still play fine except for that one where the tape got out (cheap player). I don't think CDRs (or commercial CDs for that matter) would sound as nice after the rough treatment they got.
- charlimangy 2y ago
  CDR degradation can be total and I don't know of any tools to recover them. I have a box full of unreadable CDRs from 20 years ago and a box full of perfectly playable cassettes from 40 years ago.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    The cassettes sounded awful on day one, and rest assured they didn't get better with age. (Neither did the capstan in your cassette deck, which I'd suggest checking to make sure it isn't turning into goop that will literally ruin your tapes for good.) Meanwhile, my CD-Rs are still fine, but then I didn't buy the cheapest ones I could find. Out of all the 80s artifacts that hipsters could resurrect... wow, just wow. Cassettes. They could have brought back designer jeans, off-the-shoulder blouses, normally-aspirated V12 Ferraris, and cheap cocaine... but no, they decided to rehabilitate cassette tapes. This truly is the worst timeline.
    - atoav 2y ago
      You are aware that there are people who like the sound of tape noise and the saturation comes with it? As a medium it also one of the few that gives listeners a high incentive to not skip songs. These are valid artistic choices, just like you know guitarist who run their guitar through amplifiers that distort. On persons "mistake" can be another persons goal. Also: if the thing includes a download code to a lossless flac, why would someone even consider to buy a CD? So they can listen to the exactly same thing, but with worse ergonomics? With the casette you get at least a different variant of the thing. I wouldn't use it myself if I made classical or choir music, but that is not what I do.
      - badgersnake 2y ago
        > These are valid artistic choices, just like you know guitarist who run their guitar through amplifiers that distort. On persons "mistake" can be another persons goal. Sure, if that’s what you want to do, do it and the record it on a better medium.
      - 2y ago
vr46 2y ago
I can understand the attraction of a set of needlessly complicated physical contraptions that outweighs the appeal of the actual outcome - and not talking about making coffee here - so cassettes make a lot of sense, they’re unusual, uncommon, and look better on a shelf :)
ttepasse 2y ago
Frustrating that MiniDisc was always a niche thing - those were cool looking physical artifacts and even practical. Of course real hipsters do FLAC on Iomega ZIP drives.
- 0xEF 2y ago
  You can still find some artists on Bandcamp that release on mini disc. Whenever I see them, I buy one to try and help encourage more artists to do this. And of course, many artists release on cassette. I have an album from Dirty Art Club on it's way to add to my cassette collection as we speak. My collection has grown considerably in the two-ish years I've been using Bandcamp, despite the sad controversy.
- wkjagt 2y ago
  I still have my minidisc player. It can even record. It's an awesome little machine.
  - jonhohle 2y ago
    NetMD or Hi-MD deviceces even let you “record” over USB (Hi-MD even can expose a block device). Not that long ago I would use scripts to dump CDs to MD using linux-minidisc. Much more convenient to Cary around than CDs, geat audio quality. The only downside, imho, is when I’m on vacation I like looking at second hand places and if I find a some CDs I can’t play them until I get home. I really miss the CD deck in cars.
sfmz 2y ago
I was wondering if NFC tech could bring back physical media. I think NFC can transmit unlimited data and you could embed it in a collectible card.
- aspenmayer 2y ago
  NFC isn't unlimited, and the bitrate is very low. For a storage medium, it's not really very suitable for files. It would probably make more sense to embed a URL, with the actual data hosted online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-field_communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-field_communication > NFC tags are passive data stores which can be read, and under some circumstances written to, by an NFC device. They typically contain data (as of 2015 between 96 and 8,192 bytes) and are read-only in normal use, but may be rewritable. > 424 kbit/s
  - exitb 2y ago
    > make more sense to embed a URL ...which will promptly disappear once the company decides to end their incredible journey.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      You're right, of course. It should obviously be a magnet link or NZB file. :P
- quora 2y ago
  Some kpop groups have released "NFC cd" albums that use nfc and an app to "play the album". They are essentially keychains. But in the kpop world buying albums is less about listening to the CD and more for the merch/supporting specific artists.
jrajav 2y ago
It's more than just a neat physical artifact - cassettes add a pleasing saturation and natural compression (of the musical kind, not the file kind) to the sound, which most would describe as a bit more 'warmth' and 'energy'. This is why people sometimes say that music just sounds better on cassette or vinyl. In some ways, it literally does! Perfect reproduction of sound is not the only dimension of musical quality or enjoyment.

by atoav 2y ago

badgersnake 2y ago

CDRs just make more sense here in every way. Higher quality, cheaper to produce and les degradation. Fucking hipsters.

aspenmayer 2y ago
Most of the artists I'm familiar with that release on cassette tapes are vaporwave or adjacent and sell their work as DRM-free lossless FLAC files on Bandcamp as well, so there's really no downside for the artist or the audience.
- jareklupinski 2y ago
  i love vaporwave on cassettes, because the medium lends itself to the art you never know if that flutter / wow effect was originally in the song or coming from the deck
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - badgersnake 2y ago
    Art has to be deliberate surely? What you’re describing is just noise I would say. But we’re getting philosophocal.
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      Art has to be deliberate?! Don't tell Duchamp! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_object https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Found_object https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Readymades_of_Marcel_Duchamp > Types of readymades > Readymades - un-altered objects > Assisted readymades - putting several readymades together taking away their use > Rectified readymades - an altered or marked readymade > Corrected readymades > Reciprocal readymades - a unique art work presented as a mass-produced utilitarian object
    - exitb 2y ago
      Choosing a medium that carries particular characteristic can be a deliberate choice.
      - neuralRiot 2y ago
        Like film grain or contrast. Still love the look of pushed kodak tri-x.
    - atoav 2y ago
      With an art definition from before the first world war, maybe.
vr46 2y ago
Only if you assume people are after the music and not a cool artifact, memento or souvenir.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  How is a CD-R not also an artifact, memento, or souvenir?
  - vr46 2y ago
    It misses the "cool" bit
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      To follow-on: Niche physical releases are cool because they're intentionally obscure and for fans, by fans, and explicitly for certain subcultures or even collectors within those subcultures. I've seen floppy disk and Nintendo DS cartridge releases. There are even more formats out there you can (re)release on: https://www.dookiedemastered.com/ https://www.dookiedemastered.com/ Previously on HN (788 points 16 days ago 205 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41790295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41790295
      - shiroiushi 2y ago
        >Niche physical releases are cool Um, CDs are also "niche physical releases" these days. They're not quite as old-fashioned as cassettes or vinyl, but they're still generally considered "obsolete" now with streaming music services.
        aspenmayer 2y ago
        Not nearly niche enough for some hypebeasts, but nothing wrong with CDs in and of themselves. I think finding ways to recontextualize the experience of owning and listening are worthwhile.
        2y ago
cbolton 2y ago
Cassettes are more expensive and worse quality, but significantly more robust in typical use until you put it in a bad device (or hands) that gets the tape out. I've given cassettes to a 3 year old, and they all still play fine except for that one where the tape got out (cheap player). I don't think CDRs (or commercial CDs for that matter) would sound as nice after the rough treatment they got.
charlimangy 2y ago
CDR degradation can be total and I don't know of any tools to recover them. I have a box full of unreadable CDRs from 20 years ago and a box full of perfectly playable cassettes from 40 years ago.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  The cassettes sounded awful on day one, and rest assured they didn't get better with age. (Neither did the capstan in your cassette deck, which I'd suggest checking to make sure it isn't turning into goop that will literally ruin your tapes for good.) Meanwhile, my CD-Rs are still fine, but then I didn't buy the cheapest ones I could find. Out of all the 80s artifacts that hipsters could resurrect... wow, just wow. Cassettes. They could have brought back designer jeans, off-the-shoulder blouses, normally-aspirated V12 Ferraris, and cheap cocaine... but no, they decided to rehabilitate cassette tapes. This truly is the worst timeline.
  - atoav 2y ago
    You are aware that there are people who like the sound of tape noise and the saturation comes with it? As a medium it also one of the few that gives listeners a high incentive to not skip songs. These are valid artistic choices, just like you know guitarist who run their guitar through amplifiers that distort. On persons "mistake" can be another persons goal. Also: if the thing includes a download code to a lossless flac, why would someone even consider to buy a CD? So they can listen to the exactly same thing, but with worse ergonomics? With the casette you get at least a different variant of the thing. I wouldn't use it myself if I made classical or choir music, but that is not what I do.
    - badgersnake 2y ago
      > These are valid artistic choices, just like you know guitarist who run their guitar through amplifiers that distort. On persons "mistake" can be another persons goal. Sure, if that’s what you want to do, do it and the record it on a better medium.
    - 2y ago

vr46 2y ago

I can understand the attraction of a set of needlessly complicated physical contraptions that outweighs the appeal of the actual outcome - and not talking about making coffee here - so cassettes make a lot of sense, they’re unusual, uncommon, and look better on a shelf :)

ttepasse 2y ago

Frustrating that MiniDisc was always a niche thing - those were cool looking physical artifacts and even practical. Of course real hipsters do FLAC on Iomega ZIP drives.

0xEF 2y ago
You can still find some artists on Bandcamp that release on mini disc. Whenever I see them, I buy one to try and help encourage more artists to do this. And of course, many artists release on cassette. I have an album from Dirty Art Club on it's way to add to my cassette collection as we speak. My collection has grown considerably in the two-ish years I've been using Bandcamp, despite the sad controversy.
wkjagt 2y ago
I still have my minidisc player. It can even record. It's an awesome little machine.
- jonhohle 2y ago
  NetMD or Hi-MD deviceces even let you “record” over USB (Hi-MD even can expose a block device). Not that long ago I would use scripts to dump CDs to MD using linux-minidisc. Much more convenient to Cary around than CDs, geat audio quality. The only downside, imho, is when I’m on vacation I like looking at second hand places and if I find a some CDs I can’t play them until I get home. I really miss the CD deck in cars.

sfmz 2y ago

I was wondering if NFC tech could bring back physical media. I think NFC can transmit unlimited data and you could embed it in a collectible card.

aspenmayer 2y ago
NFC isn't unlimited, and the bitrate is very low. For a storage medium, it's not really very suitable for files. It would probably make more sense to embed a URL, with the actual data hosted online. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-field_communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near-field_communication > NFC tags are passive data stores which can be read, and under some circumstances written to, by an NFC device. They typically contain data (as of 2015 between 96 and 8,192 bytes) and are read-only in normal use, but may be rewritable. > 424 kbit/s
- exitb 2y ago
  > make more sense to embed a URL ...which will promptly disappear once the company decides to end their incredible journey.
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    You're right, of course. It should obviously be a magnet link or NZB file. :P
quora 2y ago
Some kpop groups have released "NFC cd" albums that use nfc and an app to "play the album". They are essentially keychains. But in the kpop world buying albums is less about listening to the CD and more for the merch/supporting specific artists.

jrajav 2y ago

It's more than just a neat physical artifact - cassettes add a pleasing saturation and natural compression (of the musical kind, not the file kind) to the sound, which most would describe as a bit more 'warmth' and 'energy'. This is why people sometimes say that music just sounds better on cassette or vinyl. In some ways, it literally does! Perfect reproduction of sound is not the only dimension of musical quality or enjoyment.