7 ms·
Of all things my taxes go to, I would love it the United States Government would buy the patent for this drug and make it freely available to anybody who wants
by thepasswordis 2y ago
Of all things my taxes go to, I would love it the United States Government would buy the patent for this drug and make it freely available to anybody who wants it.
The number of things it apparently just cures is staggering.
- voidfunc 2y agoGonna be fun discovering what side effects it causes in 20 years tho.
- encoderer 2y agoYou might be right, but it has been in testing/development for 20 years now.
- abra0 2y agoThe real question is whether these side-effects are going to be worse than 20 years of not taking it.
- AlexandrB 2y agoThis is the question and for people that are older the scales steadily tip towards just taking the damn drug because in 20 years they're likely to be dead anyways.
- mbostleman 2y agoExactly. I see all these breathless claims of new uses and how wonderful this drug is and wonder when the other shoe is going to drop.
- cthalupa 2y agoI’ll make my usual response: we know that being obese is basically the worst possible thing you can do to yourself, and the longer you are, the worse it is. The side effects are going to be pretty awful just to negate that, much less all the other things they seem to be good for.
- sandworm101 2y ago>> being obese is basically the worst possible thing you can do to yourself Lol. I can think of dozens of worse things. Drinking. Cocaine addiction. Meth. Winding up in prison for some reason. Riding a motorcycle without a proper helmet. Getting into a plane flown by Harrison Ford. Even simple unprotected sex can lead to massive medical problems. Ever looked up the average life expectancy of professional athletes, especially the NFL? It isn't great.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cthalupa 2y ago> Drinking Being obese is probably worse for you. NAFLD has long eclipsed alcohol related liver issues. > Even simple unprotected sex can lead to massive medical problems Even treated HIV is probably less of a risk to your long term health than obesity, but I'm not a doctor. > Cocaine addiction. Meth OK, yes, there are illegal drugs that are going to be worse for you than being fat. I'll rephrase: Being obese is basically the worst possible thing you can do to yourself that affects a huge portion of the population of the western world. Very very few people are riding motorcycles without a helmet, even fewer are getting into planes flown by harrison ford, only a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the population even has the option of being a professional athlete.
- amenhotep 2y agoI like how the implicit sorting at the end here suggests Harrison Ford is ferrying around more people than there are professional athletes. Busy fella!
- astrange 2y ago> Drinking. Cocaine addiction. Meth. Ozempic treats all of those too.
- consteval 2y ago> drinking GLP-1 solves this too > Cocaine addiction GLP-1 solves this > Meth GLP-1 solves this > Prison ... no helmet Okay, GLP-1 don't solve these but these aren't medical issues. This is just danger > Even simple unprotected sex can lead to massive medical problems Mmm... not really. People overblow this. Pretty much all STIs are completely harmless to your health if treated. One shot of penicillin and you're good to go. Your average flu is probably much worse than syphilis or chlamydia. HIV is the "biggest" risk, but HIV doesn't even impact your lifespan anymore.
- Zelphyr 2y agoYou're getting downvoted here but I think there is precedent behind your statement. History is littered with weight loss drugs that had to be pulled because the shoe eventually dropped. Usually that was addiction or death which, admittedly, neither have been shown in the GLP-1's but, given the history of weight loss drugs, it's not unreasonable in my opinion to be cautious.
- astrange 2y agoGLP-1s are completely different from all those drugs. There's no reason to use them as evidence for it.
- cthalupa 2y agoI'm not a chemist, biologist, or pharmacologist, but wouldn't it be more reasonable to be cautious based on how analogous the method of action is to other drugs, rather than the effect? GLP-1s don't work in the same manner that phen/fen did, for example. DNP is an extremely effective drug for weight loss, but no one who knows anything about how it works would think that it would be reasonable to compare it to the GLP-1s, and anyone who knows how it works would also plainly see the dangers around its use. GLP-1 type drugs have been on the market for decades now as well, and while they are not perfectly safe, we've got a good amount of data around the short to medium term side effects.
- aantix 2y agoYou're getting downvoted because you didn't even care to do a simple Google search as to when the first GLP-1 was released. 2005. Almost 20 years. We have the data.
- mbostleman 2y agoActually I recently listened to a fascinating hour long interview with Lotte Bjerre Knudsen (ACQ2 podcast) from which I learned that the original research started in the early 90s. I'm not an authority but I'm pretty well aware of the history. However, I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop if you don't mind. And I don't care about votes up or down. But I appreciate your theory on how they're playing out!
- cthalupa 2y agoIs there a law of nature that says a chemical compound has to have a side effects of medical concern for a significant portion of people that ingest it? One of the most commonly consumed drugs on the planet seems to indicate there is no such thing - caffeine in reasonable quantities is tolerated by the overwhelming majority of human beings and research indicates that even outside of the stimulant effects that humans use it for, it is beneficial. We have significant evidence that caffeine in the 100-400mg per day range decreases risk of heart disease and stroke, and smaller but still compelling evidence that it is protective against diabetes. Irregular use does seem to cause a small increase in heart rate and blood pressure, but this fades in the overwhelming majority of users as they make the usage more regular. Too much can cause adverse outcomes, such as anxiety, and in some people timing might be important for maintaining sleep quality, but the vast majority of us would see positive impact from consuming a cup or two of coffee in the morning with little to no concern around side effects.
- mbostleman 2y agoAbsolutely, I'm sure there's all kinds of drugs that are totally safe. And I have no reason to think that this one isn't. But it does seem to follow a classic pattern - people get unhealthy because modern life and technology have removed them, in a period of decades, from the environment, incentives, and activities that have shaped their bodies for millennia. And rather than looking at the simpler solutions - in this case just being more active and eating better - some new technological solution is created to fix the problem that the earlier technologies accidentally created. Then the cycle continues and other non-intended consequences ensue. So that's all I'm saying - it's interesting to watch humanity progress. Hope it works out for everyone and it's a smashing success!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Someone1234 2y agoIt will likely save so many lives, it may still make sense to take it with those risks.
- spondylosaurus 2y agoLiraglutide, the predecessor to semaglutide, has been on the market for 15 years :)
- candiddevmike 2y agoSeems like you need to increase the usage of it as your body starts adapting to it and the weight loss plateaus. IMO, I think the hype around this drug is a bit much and I expect a significant number of users won't be able to meet or maintain their weight loss goals with it.
- cthalupa 2y agoI do think the dosing schedule should receive more personalization per-person. The schedule for tirzepatide is 2.5mg a week for the first month, then 5mg, then 7.5, etc. For me, a month in on 2.5, I was still struggling to force myself to eat enough. Zero need to move up. Some people don't feel anything at all until they're on 7.5mg, though. There's also a lot of people seeing better success with smaller doses more frequently, too. Instead of moving up to 5mg, I'm doing 2mg every 3-4 days. Loss is still steady and I'm not seeing any indication I'll need to bump up any time soon.
- keeganpoppen 2y agoit'd have to be pretty bad to outpace mortality for being obese
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- BaculumMeumEst 2y ago- Significantly increased mortality risk - Higher rates of cardiovascular disease - Type 2 diabetes - Sleep apnea and breathing problems - Osteoarthritis due to excess pressure on joints - Multiple types of cancers (colon, breast, endometrial) - Depression and anxiety from social stigma - Reduced mobility and quality of life - Higher medical costs (~$1,429 more annually per person)[1] - Decreased workplace productivity - Shorter life expectancy (can reduce by 5-10 years) Oh no wait, sorry, those are the effects of obesity. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19635784/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19635784/
- consteval 2y agoRight, this is what people aren't understanding. We already know the side-effects of the alternative because Western society as a whole has been living them. It's bad. The obesity epidemic causes pretty much everything bad. This drug doesn't just solve one thing, it solves hundreds or thousands of things all at once.
- aantix 2y agoTake a look at exenatide, a GLP-1 that was FDA-approved in 2005. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/does-exenatide-lower-or-extend-I3aNf6YCRua0ZvXEK2itgA https://www.perplexity.ai/search/does-exenatide-lower-or-ext...
- myprotegeai 2y agoYeah, what could go wrong with screwing with the neurochemical reward system of the entire population. Surely that will have no unintended side effects. It's literally a free lunch!
- keeganpoppen 2y agooh, so i guess you live outside and hunt animals for food? how's your all-natural neurochemical reward system?
- myprotegeai 2y agoIf I'm not completely natural, then the entire population should have access to subsidized ozempic. Got it.
- Supermancho 2y agoie subsidized ozempic means everyone will use it? You aren't making compelling points by pretending the OPs are stating things they are not.
- keeganpoppen 2y agoso you used the same logic that i made fun of in your post to make fun of the logic in your post... to say that my post was silly?
- EliRivers 2y agowhat could go wrong with screwing with the neurochemical reward system of the entire population We already know what can go wrong. We already did that decades and decades ago. Sugar, for example. Aside from so many foods being laced with it, you can now simply walk into a store and buy a kilogram of sugar and eat it. So many other examples. That ship sailed a long long time ago. All we can do now is nudge the dial the other way.
- myprotegeai 2y ago
- loeg 2y agoNovo Nordisk's market cap is $500 B, mostly on the basis of GLP-1 drug profits, and the US' entire discretionary budget is $1,700 B. Even if Denmark would allow the sale, and even if somehow the US did not need to pay a premium to shareholders (typical in acquisitions), that would still be a very substantial expenditure.
- rsync 2y agoThe correct unit of measurement here is Iraq wars. Purchasing NN Would cost roughly 0.2 Iraq wars.
- rustcleaner 2y agoThat is a sensible unit.
- throwup238 2y agoVoting majority is also controlled by the Novo Nordisk Foundation. It's already the wealthiest foundation on the planet so they're unlikely to give up their flagship enterprise.
- bearjaws 2y agoThis ignores the fact that the patents expire in 5-7 years, GLP1 is (relatively) trivial to produce and will be a $100 generic by 2032.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- adventured 2y agoThat's not the way to go about it at all. The EU loves to ransom US tech companies for budget money. It's very clear that this is an opportunity for the US to similarly damage a big EU company by threatening its patents in the US, or otherwise hitting Novo for tens of billions of dollars in ransom money. The US market is by a huge margin the most important drug market in the world, and especially for Novo. Find an abusive excuse to invalidate their patents if all else fails. Let Europe learn a valuable lesson in trade wars.
- throwaway041207 2y agoI have been on compounded GLP-1 for a month, prior to this I was a highly functional alcoholic, basically starting drinking after work every night and going until I passed out. I've drunk well over 50 beers (probably more) a week for the last 20 years. I have not had a drink since going on it. I have been reading obsessively about this drug since going on it. I have been fortunate enough not to suffer side effects on it, save for one -- frustration with the cynicism around it. A cynicism I shared prior to experiencing its effects. I am convinced that, barring any life threatening long term side effects, this is the most important drug of our lifetime (from a first world perspective) or until a silver bullet cancer drug is found. The potential to be the tide that lifts so many boats and alleviates so much physical and emotional pain and suffering on a population level is almost overwhelming to think about.
- Spooky23 2y agoAgreed. The constant cynicism about everything, framed by some stupid moral hazard nonsense, is exhausting. It reminds me of the British reaction to the famine in Ireland - the good ministers were concerned about the moral health of the Irish. If they were provided with charity food, it would be a terrible tragedy if they became dependent. Just let them starve to death, with a clean soul.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 93po 2y agodo you have adhd, and do you think your drinking is at all related to adhd/lack of executive function? just curious, not implying.
- throwaway041207 2y agoI do not have ADHD. I am not sure exactly why I drink so much -- there are a number of alcoholics on both sides of my family, but I also spent many years drinking in bars in a big city, living a very social life. During COVID I became much more of a solitary drinker and over the last five or so years I have drank out of a sense of malaise. Every morning became the day I was going to take a break and every night there was an excuse to start drinking again. The strange thing about GLP-1s effect on my desire to drink is how it manifests: I just don't care about drinking. I actually _could_ drink and be fine I think, I haven't tested it. I don't go through life with the burden of the knowledge of my own addiction. I don't have to be vigilant about triggers and self-assess my actions. I just don't drink.
- roody15 2y agoHmm not quite. The bigger issue at hand is the large group of metabolic disorders linked to our unhealthy eating habits Alzheimer’s is now often referred to as Type 3 diabetes. This drug in a nutshell partially paralyzes the stomach and upper intestine causing food to move through slowly. This has the effect of reducing food cravings as you literally stay full longer. However slowing down the stomach muscles has many risks and many side effects. Yes this drug is great for people who have struggled with weight loss and may not realistically be in a position to work on diet and exercise. However this drug is not a substitute for the larger issue at hand. Many (possibly most) Americans are not living healthy lives in terms of mind, body (maybe spirit). Improving physical activity leveled.. learning to eat less and to eat healthy should be a national priority. If anything the US government lack of addressing the elephant in the room and the underlying cause of many of these metabolic orders should outrage all Americans. Just my two cents
- astrange 2y ago> is now often referred to as Type 3 diabetes. No it isn't. Stop trying to make fetch happen. > Improving physical activity leveled It doesn't appear that this is the issue. You can't explain a recent trend (obesity) using something that hasn't changed recently. And exercise is not very effective for weight loss compared to diet (it's something like 20%/80%).
- keeganpoppen 2y agowhoa that is a crazy, powerful idea. my favorite kind.
- sandworm101 2y ago>> The number of things it apparently just cures is staggering. It cures behavior, not directly disease. I see red flags. Firefly did a movie about a drug that interfered with people's motivations to do things.
- tombert 2y agoAre you seriously suggesting that Ozempic might lead to the Reavers from Firefly?
- throwup238 2y agoI don't remember seeing any overweight or obese people on Miranda.
- aorloff 2y agoThank you Nothing is being healed, we are just helping people cope with excess
- kelseyfrog 2y agoWhat evidence would it take to change your no-free lunch heuristic?
- AdmiralAsshat 2y agoIt'll never happen, as long as American culture views body weight as a moral failing. We can't make it easy for people to fix the things we want them to fix, after all.
- BaculumMeumEst 2y agoIt is such a fucking no-brainer. The costs of obesity, both monetary and in terms of human suffering, are staggering. Absolutely fucking staggering. We should be making this as available as humanly possible, NOW.
- RobotToaster 2y agoThey don't have to buy the patent, they can issue a compulsory licence for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license#United_States_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_license#United_Stat...
- fgimenez 2y agoFirst-gen GLP-1 goes off patent in 2031 (e.g. semaglutide). Seems far off, but is frighteningly close for Novo. Tirzepatide gets genericized in 2039 and has better efficacy, which is why Lilly is in such a strong position right now. There is an enormous amount of biotech work to develop next-gen versions that have better half-lives, lower adverse events, and most importantly, have long patent lives. But it seems base GLP-1 are good enough that we should see massive societal change starting next decade.
- cthalupa 2y agoLilly is probably in an even stronger position if retatrutide continues to look as good as it has in the current trials. Better weight loss than tirzepatide, and recent results have shown it has excellent results on reducing fat deposits in the liver... and NAFLD is the leading cause of severe liver disease in the world.
- thefz 2y agoGod save us if a non US company is successful, or -gasp- profitable.
- thepasswordis 2y agoOne could assume that the US purchasing the patent would be very profitable for the company selling it.