18 ms·

Rider is now free for non-commercial use

828 points by kretaceous 2y ago

slekker 2y ago
I'm learning F# and have been using VSCode. How different/better JetBrains Rider support for F# is?
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  Considering you get a better integrated environment rather than something designed more heavily around plugins you also get unquestionably much better refactoring tools. One thing to note that I just learned: You cannot opt out of anonymous data collection if you use the free non-commercial license. (I'd probably still trust Jetbrains over Microsoft, but that's me) https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride... I'd definitely recommend trying it out now that it's free. Your taste may vary.
- chusk3 2y ago
  Hi, I'm the maintainer for the VSCode F# support. Rider support for F# is great, that team is very engaged, and I'd strongly consider it if * you have mixed C#/F# projects in a solution (C# and F# support in VSCode can't communicate today) * you use Rider for other technology * you want paid support for your editor tools * you prefer IDE-style experiences rather than editor/ extension-style experiences * you want to take advantage of Rider features like their accelerated build caching
  - terminalbraid 2y ago
    I appreciate the honesty and straightforwardness in this post given your position. Thank you.
- debugnik 2y ago
  In my experience, Rider's support for F# is much more stable and usable than Ionide, or even Visual Studio proper.
terminalbraid 2y ago
This is pretty huge all around, especially with Microsoft discontinuing Visual Studio for Mac. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022/what-happened-to-vs-for-mac https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022... I'd also like to note the great integration Rider has with Godot and Unity for game development.
- mananaysiempre 2y ago
  Wasn’t VS for Mac a MonoDevelop build with amputated Linux support rather than a version of Visual Studio proper? Or am I out of date on this?
  - billyhoffman 2y ago
    It started that way but wasn’t been for a while. In fact the last version was a rewrite using native macOS controls and optimized for Apple Silicon. Sad to see it go but heard great things about Rider for c# development.
    - nick_ 2y ago
      The newer mac version was actually showing huge promise. It was a couple of versions away from being a great choice as primary IDE. That said, I do understand why they axed it. The market would have been tiny for all that investment.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Shortly after the team managed to ship the 1.0 release of the rewrite, what a reward.
      - memsom 2y ago
        to be fair, I heard the team all got canned at the same time.
  - LeFantome 2y ago
    Yes, that is what it was. Microsoft had continued to evolve it. And a few components from Visual Studio Windows were ported over to be common. But Visual Studio Mac was 100% rebranded Xamarin Studio which of course was just an evolution of MonoDevelop.
mattferderer 2y ago
As a paying subscriber I love this move for the .NET community. As a .NET dev for many years, I've noticed there have been periods of time where either Visual Studio or Rider was far better than the other. Currently, Rider is much better. Hopefully this encourages more people to try out C# & F#. Both fantastic languages. - Edit - Looks like Webstorm (JS/TS editor) is also free now.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  I had a Rider license for a while but just let it lapse. I've found myself totally satisfied with just VS Code on macOS (it's come a really long way). I'm glad that this move will possibly make .NET more accessible, but I think VSC is in a really good place with C# at the moment and shouldn't be overlooked.
  - mattferderer 2y ago
    VS Code is really good at certain things but it struggles on larger projects & doesn't have near the advanced features. It's a very good choice though for a lot of projects. It's also a great way to try out C#. It has some amazing extensions for certain tasks too.
    - CharlieDigital 2y ago
      VSC feels pretty capable in my books. We have a mono-repo with 100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript, 23k lines of Astro. No issues at all running it on a 2021 14" MacBook Pro with only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD while also running multiple Docker containers for Postgres, Neo4j, Memcached, and LocalStack. My take is that folks should not underestimate VSC; there are certainly things that Rider does better, but VSC is totally viable for modern .NET backend work.
      - withinboredom 2y ago
        100k loc is not big. That’s a small-medium sized project.
alberth 2y ago
What an amazing accomplishment JetBrains has done. It's a bootstrapped, European company, doing $400M+ annually in revenue selling to developers (who are some of the most difficult buyers to convenience to pay). https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/annualreport-2023/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/annualreport-2023/
- fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
  I'd love to pay for a lot of software and dev stuff. Convincing my job to do so is such a pain that I don't even try. I do pay for WebStorm and DataGrip myself though.
- peutetre 2y ago
  > selling to developers (who are some of the most difficult buyers to convenience to pay). All of whom, strangely, expect to be paid for their work.
  - ozim 2y ago
    Given amount of open source available for free I can easily say your statement is totally wrong.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      That is exactly the point, those using the free tools expect to be paid, while feeling entitled about those free tools capabilities and zero monetary contributions.
    - javajosh 2y ago
      We expect to get paid for satisfying someone else's requirements. We do not expect to get paid to scratch our own itches.
    - izacus 2y ago
      Huge majority of OSS developers (especially for big projects) are paid for their opensource work too.
0x073 2y ago
Webstorm is now also free for non commercial use https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride...
- laristine 2y ago
  I couldn't believe it. WebStorm is easily among the best IDEs for web work (some of my coworkers would say the best) today.
buybackoff 2y ago
If they want to grab market share they should include dotMemory to the free offer. Basically dotUltimate without ReSharper. Otherwise free Rider users will need to install free Visual Studio for enhanced profiling.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More on official post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128
schmorptron 2y ago
This is great! I found myself preferring the rider student license I had at home to Visual Studio we had at work when I was actively writing a lot of c# and some f# recently. It didn't feel fast outright, but at least faster than VS, and the memory profiler was much more immediately grokkable to me.
HatchedLake721 2y ago
WebStorm too https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride...
- judge2020 2y ago
  This is pretty huge since web technology has always been the “paid tier” for JB products
- hbn 2y ago
  Oh that's awesome! I'm a huge fan of the JetBrains IDEs - the way it understands code relieves so much mental overhead when tracing through my code, finding usages, refactoring, etc. It's one of the rare pieces of software I actually enjoy using. I just can't justify the cost for personal use for the amount I use it, and the fact that I've never really monetized a side project. Super happy they're making this move. I think there's good logic to getting people hooked with free personal use so they can convince their company to buy licenses for everyone at work.
- Timon3 2y ago
  Hm... I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad sign. I've been a Jetbrains user & proponent for many years, with most of my usage in WebStorm. But over the last ~2-3 years I've faced more and more bugs, some sitting open for weeks and months. Just for a short selection: - The autocomplete popup sometimes froze the IDE completely (and killing the process caused minutes of data loss), open for close to a year[0] - Since two months ago, the Typescript language server fails to start in Vue projects (due to a broken update by the Vue team). A fixed version of WebStorm was released yesterday, in the meantime you were apparently expected to search for the error message, stumble upon the YouTrack page, and apply a workaround[1] - Performance is abysmal in a larger React MUI project, think 10-15 seconds for feedback on code changes, sometimes errors just stick around for a good minute or more[2] - In some situations WebStorm makes autocomplete suggestions that aren't allowed - think effectively a type T with keys K | L, where Omit<T, K> leads to only suggesting K properties, while removing the Omit makes it suggest both K and L properties - After updating from 2024.1.X to 2024.2.Y, the window had no buttons for minimizing/maximizing anymore. Now, this was partially caused by my environment, but after I found a workaround it was closed as "Third Party Problem". Still feels like a regression to me, since my environment did not change. These are some of the more memorable ones from this year, but it feels like there's a new one every week. I'm pretty close to dropping my subscription, and this news doesn't fill me with confidence that the necessary investments in Q&A will be made. [0]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-6171/Random-freezes-when-code-suggestions-opens-on-New-UI https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-6171/Random-freezes... [1]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-68756/Vue-LS-2.x-Couldnt-Start-server.watchFiles-is-not-a-function https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-68756/Vue-LS-2.x-Co... [2]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-59766/Very-slow-code-analysis-in-React-MUI-Javascript-code https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-59766/Very-slow-cod...
Latty 2y ago
I'd been subscribed for the best part of a decade to their all products pack, liked the products, but they kept doing stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way in a paid product, e.g: shoving the AI offering down my throat and initially having no way to remove it, and then when I paid most recently, they sent me some spammy marketing for some third party product as a "thank you", and I cancelled my subscription there and then. I don't mind paying for a good product, but I want the experience to be less irksome than the free offerings out there, I get enough annoying advertising from free stuff I use, if I'm paying good money, I don't want that.
- Habgdnv 2y ago
  I was a paying customer for a long time, and their spam campaigns were the reason for my cancellation last year. Now I am a happy Microsoft Visual Studio Pro subscriber again. (happy in quotes btw)
  - Latty 2y ago
    It's a shame, I like the tools generally, but so much stuff is just about bombarding you with ads now, paying for a good tool is, to me, meant to be the way to avoid that, that really soured me on it all.
- rahkiin 2y ago
  What is the problem you have with the AI? You can disable it, and otherwise it is run locally only. It does nice line-completion
  - Latty 2y ago
    At launch it'd pop open the UI every time you opened any of the tools, and you couldn't uninstall the plugin. I understand you can now disable it, but it was annoying at the time, and demonstrated the issue I had with feeling like I was being advertised to in invasive ways despite being a paying customer.
renewiltord 2y ago
I really like their loyalty bonuses. The price for the whole thing drops down really low over time.
CraigJPerry 2y ago
As a looooooooong term intellij user, it surprised me that Rider is the more performant IDE (IDEA was the primary product - i expected it to have the best experience). I've used Rider a fair bit over the past 18 months or so (all products licence) and it's still very noticeable every time i spend time in Rider.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  I think some of Rider is written in C# vs all Java for IDEA. Could that be it?
  - wiseowise 2y ago
    Their Resharper is indeed C#, only GUI is written using Kotlin.
lolinder 2y ago
This is also true of WebStorm now, too. Discussion on the announcement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128
nurettin 2y ago
Sounds like they got a big present from Microsoft.
- homebrewer 2y ago
  No, they're feeling pressure from VSCode (which is primitive in comparison, but good enough for most people). Thus the new theme (which none of the old users asked for) — total clone of VSCode UI, and this announcement. It's the opposite of what you're thinking.
  - memsom 2y ago
    Not sure which version of VSCode you think the new UI is a clone of, but I don't really see it. The tool buttons? VS has always had those, thought they had text by default. Tabs? VS has those too. Bottom bar? VS also. In fact, Rider looks like all the other Jetbrains IDEs - except Fleet, which is actually their VS Code competitor.
  - sakesun 2y ago
    I agree. Definitely pressure from VSCode. I did a number of .NET projects with VSCode. It's indeed very good.
einpoklum 2y ago
Many developers have gratis JetBrains license on account of being involved in FOSS. I'm in that category - have to apply each year for a license by referring to (one of) my FOSS library(ies). It's just too bad that their UI is going in the direction of VSCode and others, become more... I guess I could say smartphone-like.
cmbernard333 2y ago
Now do CLion. I cannot stand using VS on windows.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Try VSCode + clangd. Much better experience.
  - adgrant 2y ago
    No thanks. I do use VS Code when I just want an editor (i.e. I don't want my CMake & vcpkg files parsed). Otherwise I prefer CLion for CMake projects and use the real Visual Studio for C++ vsproj files.
textlapse 2y ago
There are a few privately owned companies that amaze me: JetBrains, Valve among the top. Somehow they have a much better value/user and make reasonable decisions: counter intuitive to investors/shareholders but insanely intuitive to their users. I am sure the public market has made the general public reap the rewards of large companies (kudos!) but some of the privately owned companies are absolutely kicking ass to serve their customers instead. Rider is a really great product - probably the next generation of coders will be split between VS Code and Rider with this change.
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  I go pretty heavy on Jetbrains products, but they have stirred up the dev community a few times chasing things seen as investor friendly. In particular when they shoved their AI plugin as a required plugin with carried an obnoxious upsell nag. In general they've also spread themselves out across a ridiculous number of products where I'd prefer if they just focused on making their current stuff work (and not discontinue useful things like AppCode). CLion was practically unusable with the Mac toolchain for refactoring for a long time until they released the Nova backend. Fleet has been in public preview forever as a direct contender to VSCode and they spent a lot of work on it, incomplete, and then just let it sit there with minor stuff like getting themes after three years.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    They also pulled the plug on free support for their Rust plugin which really upset me. Jetbrains is intent on making you pay before you get IDE functionality; I'd rather use VS Code or Zed these days.
    - NoboruWataya 2y ago
      RustRover is free for non-commercial use though? I liked the look of Zed when I first tried it out, but I read that it seems to have a strong cloud/AI focus which I don't want or need. I have started investing a bit of time in getting Vim working with all the bells and whistles and now it's a decent fallback when I can't use a JetBrains IDE for whatever reason.
sdflhasjd 2y ago
I wish Jetbrains could save me from Xcode. Please.
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  Same. Discontinuing AppCode was genuinely disappointing to me. Not sure if you can still download it, but it definitely hasn't seen a new major release since the 2023 version.
  - hyperbrainer 2y ago
    Apparently, not enough people thought like you. [0] > While we’ve had some growth in terms of adoption, we didn’t reach the market share we had hoped for. We believe that the time has come to sunset the product and focus our efforts in other directions. [0] https://blog.jetbrains.com/appcode/2022/12/appcode-2022-3-release-and-end-of-sales-and-support/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/appcode/2022/12/appcode-2022-3-re...
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    They had a Swift plugin release in June 2024 FWIW https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift/versions https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift/versions but I'm guessing one would need to do some plugin.xml surgery given the compatibility range is locked at 2023.1.7
- alexashka 2y ago
  But who's going to save you from the Swift compiler? :)
- curlicue 2y ago
  Same, this has been a big struggle personally, as an engineer I try to be flexible with the tools I need to use, but I also want my tools to bring me joy, and Xcode brings me nothing but frustration
- mdaniel 2y ago
  I'm thankful that I don't have to deal with Obj-C nor Swift in order to know if it would help your specific complaint but have you tried their Swift plugin for CLion? https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift I do see the /!\ sunset /!\ warning but until they actually do nuke it, it could still be helpful
sebazzz 2y ago
Beautiful. Rider is an awesome a much faster IDE and I use it whenever possible. It is not practical for all projects. The only behaviour that annoys me a bit: - Double clicking an identifier should select the full identifier. However, in Rider (as opposed to Visual Studio) it is connected to the CamelHump setting - which is useful by itself. In Visual Studio you can have both CamelHump enabled and “double clicking the identifier selects the whole identifier”. - Any startup project tasks like maybe a “webpack watch task” is “in the way” when stopping run/debug of your current application. A separate task runner like in Visual Studio would be beneficial. - If a solution has file templates defined, every user needs to activate/select them manually in the settings. Quite cumbersome.
kernal 2y ago
Is Rider nerfed as much as the free version of IDEA is? And if not, then why isn't there a free noncommercial version of IDEA? This seems like a smack to the face for Java developers that want to use the full version of IDEA for noncommercial purposes.
- chupasaurus 2y ago
  Full version of IDEA is "make your own IDE" since you can add almost everything from their other IDEs.
scblzn 2y ago
However, be careful with the terms of non-commercial usage (Enforced heavy metrics) "You agree that the product will send usage data to validate your compliance with the license terms and anonymous feature usage statistics..." "The information collected under Sections 4.1. and 4.2. may include but is not limited to frameworks, file templates used in the Product, actions invoked, and other interactions with the Product’s features."
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- thatfunkymunki 2y ago
  https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/18786968063378-Hardcoded-DNS-queries https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/po... Not just that, they will do some yucky things to exfiltrate data from your network to enforce this.
bbx 2y ago
For someone who just got into game development on Mac, this is very interesting. I'd never heard of this IDE before. Will give it a try.
- danhau 2y ago
  You won’t regret it. They’re basically the industry leaders in IDEs. They also make JetBrains Mono, a fantastic monospace coding font.
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  good luck, they will expect you to pay $149 / yr even if you don't make a penny off your game all the while you coulda probably just made it in VS code for free...
  - askonomm 2y ago
    I wonder if construction workers also expect someone to give them free hammers and nails if they want to work on hobby projects. I doubt that. So maybe then software engineers shouldn't be so stuck up about not paying for their tools either?
    - jdthedisciple 2y ago
      unless there are competitors who do offer free hammers and nails (the VS Code of construction), I think your analogy fails
      - askonomm 2y ago
        That's fine, and yeah, perhaps my analogy isn't the greatest. But if you're ok with the free tools, why complain about the paid ones not being free as well? That's ridiculous to me at least. The paid ones offer value to clearly enough people to still be in business, and if you don't find that value useful to you, then don't .. use it?
psygn89 2y ago
The design of the yellow/black cells holding language/tech tripped me out for a sec, on my laptop they're all crooked at the top but align themselves after a certain amount of scroll. Thought I was seeing an optical illusion but a refresh shows that it's not. I don't think this was intentional.
- deleted 2y ago
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- aggieNick02 2y ago
  What on earth is up with that? It's not just you. It happens in both Chrome and Firefox. After a very small amount of scroll it goes away?!?!
- DaemonAlchemist 2y ago
  I see specific classes on the page that specify a one degree angle, so it seems to be intentional. I would guess it's to call your attention to the cells.
  - aggieNick02 2y ago
    The one degree angle, while a little unusual, isn't what blows my mind. It's the disappearance after a small scroll. That's enough to make you think you were imagining things, might need to go to the eye doctor, etc...
9cb14c1ec0 2y ago
JetBrains licenses are one of the few software licenses that I pay for. Their IDEs have the features I need while keeping the UI from getting in the way.
- ezekg 2y ago
  I really, really wanted to like and use their IDEs (esp their Ruby 'intellisense' or w/e), but the lack of popular theme support kind of killed it for me. I wanted my IDE to look like my VSCode editor, but, at least a few years ago, that wasn't really possible since iirc there were only a handful of theme options.
  - martypitt 2y ago
    They revamped the IDE a while back, it now feels much more VSCode-esque. Theming has moved on a fair bit too...
    - gjvc 2y ago
      They revamped the IDE a while back, it now feels much more VSCode-esque. biggest mistake they have made in a while.
      - mdaniel 2y ago
        Arguably the 2nd biggest: the biggest was when they made that shit mandatory, in that I can no longer go into Settings and uncheck "New UI". The breadcrumb placement[1] alone almost made me rage revert to 2023.something since it was so instrumental to my workflow. Maybe by next Oct I'll have retrained my brain to look in the new location, but goddamn was it that important to them? 1: yes, I am aware of the Setting that says "breadcrumb placement = top" and I am also aware it does absolutely nothing. I'm currently too burned out on their process to open a YouTrack about it
  - luckylion 2y ago
    You can theme it yourself without too much hassle. I like my dark mode to be black rather than grey, and just made it do that, and it just works. It took an hour or three to understand the process because I'm not a Java person and am not familiar with any of the tooling, but then it was super easy. This was a few ago, so they may have improved that part by now, I've just carried my theme over the updates.
708733454927516 2y ago
Activation required. Still a nice deal. Also looks like an online account is required.
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  They seem very ... concerned.
blorenz 2y ago
I have loved JetBrains ever since I entered their ecosystem for the End of the World Sale in 2012. As a professional developer, I need my tools to work for me and not against me. That is why I pay for these tools and I appreciate JetBrains' consistent iteration on making them even better. I do have a few gripes though. I wish the performance was better on my current setup on my M2 MBP. It is an awful experience when tools get in your way and break your flow. The file sync to MacOS is fairly laggy and new files that are created can take seconds to appear. UI interactions can be laggy. Sometimes invoking the context sensitive intentions/actions is blocking where it will hang for seconds. I need to keep my movements fluid to keep my train of thoughts on the track and not be derailed by my ADD. I also would like a plug-in system that wasn't entirely on Kotlin, Groovy and Java. I did Groovy dev in a past life but it's painful for me today. Thankfully ChatGPT gets me most of the way there. I wish there were JS/TS bindings to build upon. Overall, I'm pleased with JetBrains. I appreciate their content they put out on YouTube to further empower the developers that use their products with knowledge and guidance of efficiencies. I'll continue using it as my core IDE for the foreseeable future. I have augmented my flow with a bit of Cursor but JetBrains is the bread and butter.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
OtomotO 2y ago
I loved JetBrains IDEs years back. These days I am mostly using NeoVim. I decided today to stop supporting JetBrains BECAUSE there is no good kotlin language server. I would gladly pay them money even if I don't use their IDEs if only they provided a good language server.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- qwwdfsad 2y ago
  I wonder though, do you expect good LSP to be available for commercial use free of charge?
  - OtomotO 2y ago
    No, it's fine if I have to pay (but I said as much in my initial post, didn't I?). A kotlin project paid my bills for a long time, so I am totally fine investing 200bucks/year. But I don't want to use IdeaVim anymore, I want the real deal NeoVim, configured how I love it!
- wiseowise 2y ago
  > I decided today to stop supporting JetBrains BECAUSE there is no good kotlin language server. They’ve been awful stewards of the language despite investing so much into it.
kosolam 2y ago
Btw, as a paying ultimate user for the Java EE features I was surprised how good vscode support for the same is. And completely for free
alex_lav 2y ago
Rider is by far the best C# IDE. Especially if you're not running Windows. It was a real lifesaver while working with Unity.
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  Well, I'd wager most C# devs are ... running Windows, so...
  - danparsonson 2y ago
    That maybe true, but .NET runs natively on Linux these days too.
  - adgrant 2y ago
    I have developed projects using C# on MacOS with deployment on Linux Docker containers.
  - alex_lav 2y ago
    Unsure how true that is, but I certainly never did. Rider is better either way, but definitely better than alternatives on MacOS.
Kwpolska 2y ago
Rider is much better and faster than Visual Studio, and it's worth every penny. Making it free is a great move.
- fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
  I think it’s a bit worrisome that Microsoft can give away VS Code for free because they subsidize it in other ways, but JetBrains - a small software shop - clearly is being forced into this position. Just more Big Tech setting the terms for all of us trying to make a living.
  - danhau 2y ago
    I suspect JB know most of their revenue comes from corporate licenses (I‘m guessing), so this shouldn‘t cut their bottom line significantly, while simultaneously giving them a foot in the door of potential new customers. Get them hooked for private / OS projects, then sell them commercial licenses.
    - fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
      Agree, but some part of me feels uneasy with the idea that Big Tech can, and will, take any product somebody has put blood, sweat, and tears into, copy it, and give it away for free. This isn’t a new problem, but every time I see some form of “free” it gives me pause.
  - jasomill 2y ago
    While I don't disagree with your overall point, it seems worth pointing out that JetBrains has over 2,000 employees, so it's only small in comparison with industry giants, and that Rider has been successfully competing with "free" from day one: both VSCode and Visual Studio have been free for non-commercial and commercial use by individuals and small organizations for longer than Rider has existed as a product. And Rider was built on IntelliJ and ReSharper, two products that successfully "competed with free" for many years before then. So, if anything, I'd say that JetBrains is at worst reasonably well-positioned to survive dumping by larger competitors with more diverse product lines.
KacharKhan 2y ago
Limited commercial use 1 to 3 devs should also be freek as projects this small usually are just starting and aren't profitable yet. Beyond that, yes , it should be sustainable for the team to pay for commercial license.
- newaccount74 2y ago
  No. If you have money to pay for developers, you also have money to pay for tools. Especially since software licenses are going to be a tiny fraction of what the developers cost.
  - KacharKhan 2y ago
    What about 1 developer developing something for commercial use ?
    - innocenat 2y ago
      They also offer a personal license, which I would say should be affordable to any devs if they were getting money. Rider is $149/year for the first year, $119 for second, and $89/year for the third year onward.
      - KacharKhan 2y ago
        That calculation does not hold for developing countries. Rider's license fee is huge in countries with per capita GDP is a small fraction of USA's per capita GDP.
        newaccount74 2y ago
        We should probably look at developer salaries / hourly rates rather than GDP. Most of the people in developing countries don't need IDEs. But yeah, if you work for low rates, then you have to work more hours to pay for your tools.
mattlondon 2y ago
Genuine question with an open mind: why would I use this and not vscode? I know people complain about lag in vscode but I have personally never experienced/noticed any. So with that in mind what does rider give that vscode cannot?
- jw1224 2y ago
  I’m a PhpStorm user so not familiar with Rider specifically, but in my experience JetBrains IDEs are exactly that: Integrated Development Environments. Whereas VSCode is more of a code editor first and foremost. There’s tons of overlap between the two, and for casual development VSCode will usually be fine. But as a professional I rely on IDEA to make a living, and it rarely lets me down. 95% of everything I could ever need comes out-of-the-box, so I don’t need to go plugin hunting (though there is a broad range of IDEA plugins too). In fact the IDEA plugins are cross-compatible, so plugins for Rider will work in PhpStorm, PyCharm, Rubymine, etc. The refactoring is outstanding, and leaps beyond what VSCode can do it. Basically it just understands my code like a real developer would. Not just simply checking syntax, but understanding project structure, naming conventions, coding styles, and more. PhpStorm gives me access to a full debugger, with inline breakpoints and execution step controls. “Find Usages” is incredibly thorough and even understands dynamic symbol names in many cases. Also I get a full MySQL and Redis client, right there in the UI. I can click on strings which refer to column names in my code, and they’ll appear in the DB panel instantly. At the end of the day these are power-user features, but I’m glad to have them and feel significantly more productive in a JetBrains IDE. Embracing static analysis and a full IDE was probably the single most beneficial upgrade to my skills and career.
  - Contortion 2y ago
    I've tried VS Code and Haystack (based on VS Code) for writing PHP and I just couldn't stand it after having used PhpStorm. Basic things like copying variables, indenting, moving lines into if statements, multiple cursors etc. just aren't intuitive in VS Code when writing PHP and a lot of the things I can do in PhpStorm with the press of a button just aren't possible. I really hope they move PhpStorm to the same payment model as Rider so I can also use it for my own non-work projects.
MattRix 2y ago
Rider has a lot going for it, but I really can't stand the structure of JetBrains subscription. Why can't they just have a single monthly or annual price, rather than this absurd structure where the price gets cheaper over time, encouraging lock-in?
- vunderba 2y ago
  Uhhh no. Lock-in seems like hyperbole given that you can migrate over to any other IDE. And, especially given the fact that when you purchase an annual subscription, you were given a perpetual fall back license - meaning you can continue to use that version long after your subscription has lapsed.
- collinstevens 2y ago
  All Products Pack (12 IDEs, 3 extensions, 2 profilers) first year - $289.00 (+$116) second year - $231.00 (+$58) third year onwards - $173.00 you're locked in because of an extra $116 the first year and $58 the second year? https://www.jetbrains.com/store/?section=personal&billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/store/?section=personal&billing=ye...
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    They may mean that they're locked into continuing the subscription to keep getting updates because if you have a break then you start at the high price again. Whenever you don't renew you get whatever version was out when you last renewed in perpetuity which is great. But if you decide you don't want it this year, but in two years you do, now you're back at the $289 price. Though if you pay $289 every other year you're still coming out ahead compared to an annual subscription so I don't know what the issue is.
- wiether 2y ago
  They're rewarding recurring customers, this is not a vendor lock-in.
  - MattRix 2y ago
dzonga 2y ago
what does free for non-commercial use really mean ? if you make a game, then it gets popular what happens ? or some .net api? I'm always confused by such licensing terms e.g what ended up happening with Unity.
- ubertaco 2y ago
  Are you going to sell the thing you're using Rider to build? That's commercial use. If you're not going to sell it, it's probably not commercial use.
  - ozim 2y ago
    I think parent has an issue where at first he develops something he thinks he won't sell but later it turns out he has opportunity to make money on it. My take would be, when decision to earn money one should buy the license for sure. I don't think you can somehow pay for previous use and I expect no one will hold it against you. But at the same time if you "develop non commercially" and you know you will be trying to monetize it most likely it will be hard to prove and no one has resources to catch every such case but remember that you become "big POS" for that.
    - bhandziuk 2y ago
      I think an unsuccessful commercial venture is still a commercial venture.
      - jdthedisciple 2y ago
        They can be pity like that if they want but they shouldnt be surprised if they cant scale their customer-base anymore at some point. Which is probably why they're beginning to change their strategy rn with this move ...
      - ozim 2y ago
        In my comment I am fully giving into that you can write OSS lib or some free to use tool with no intent to monetize and then suddenly you have to change it. Not that I believe in that scenario.
eugenekolo 2y ago
Awesome news.
p0w3n3d 2y ago
Regarding free non-commercial use in Jetbrains you need to accept that you'll get checked (not specified how, but I guess they will scrape your HDD? Or what? It’s also important to note that if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. This is similar to our Early Access Program (where statistics is opt-out) and in compliance with our Privacy Policy
- jchw 2y ago
  If you are willing to trust their own documentation, there is documentation about what is sent with anonymous usage statistics in Jetbrains IDEA IDEs: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html#categories_of_collected_data https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic... That said, if you mean "checked" as in checking for compliance, I don't think anonymous usage statistics are for that. For that they would need to not be anonymous. If they could identify who was improperly using the community versions, it would break the pinky promise of anonymity. (And for the record I personally doubt they are secretly correlating anonymous usage statistics, but if they were, using them for license compliance would involve either revealing that they did this or at least parallel construction.) That all said, I think everyone will just have to form their own opinion on whether to trust their statements and whether this is acceptable.
  - graypegg 2y ago
    If I had to guess, there probably isn’t any direct monitoring of commercial-ness in the IDE, but also guessing there’s Jetbrains employees watching for public statements that mention/screenshot a Jetbrains product and will contact the business if their company is not on file. Only need a few hits to make that worth while.
    - p0w3n3d 2y ago
      I have company laptop and wanted to try writing something in rust (I found this on RustRover page) but I believe this violates my company's policies. However TBH I don't believe that if data goes somewhere it cannot be deanonymised. I would be more comfortable with clear license "this is my project, you can see it and I am not using it commercially", but not with "you must allow us to send some anonymous data"
antaviana 2y ago
The pricing page says the Free version collects anonymous data. I understand the paid versions don’t. Does it say anywhere the kind of anonymous data that is collected in the Free version?
- russelg 2y ago
  https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html#categories_of_collected_data https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic...
magic_hamster 2y ago
There is a lot of praise here for JetBrains. I love their products, but sadly they joined the devcontainer race way too late and the condition of their products does not allow for serious development with dev containers. Their Gateway application is still in beta, and it doesn't always work, but it's faring much better than their early access devcontainer IDEs which are in a sorry state. I can't believe that this late in the game my team has no choice but to actually give up on jetbrains for some time. We tried our best to make it work with their products because we enjoy them dearly. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. VSCode has a mature, and most important functioning, devcontainer ecosystem. Not sure if Rider even has devcontaier support but good for jetbrains for releasing a community edition.
atemerev 2y ago
Well, these code assistant AI models won’t train themselves…
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  Can't neglect feeding the bot brains indeed...
pradn 2y ago
Anyone know how well this works with Godot?
briandear 2y ago
VIM is free too. As is Xcode.
solarkraft 2y ago
Microsoft should’ve done a Google and Licensed the JetBrains IDE for .Net. Visual Studio feels like Windows in all the worst ways. Rider saved me some sanity when I had to work with .Net.
mellosouls 2y ago
Note that you will still have to pay for the AI support, which is presumably a major factor in this strategy. ie. How many devs will really use it in it's "free" state as titled? Fewer and fewer I suspect. I'm sceptical about the prevalence of non-AI-centred-IDEs going forward - we live in a new era now - and I guess JetBrains have also come to that conclusion and this is a pivot to support the thesis.
- issafram 2y ago
  I don't care about AI support at all
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    If anything, not having AI is a bonus in my book.
  - mellosouls 2y ago
    Fair enough, but I think that will be a minority view going forward; it has already become a core functionality across the industry, and that is what Jetbrains et al have to contend with.
alkonaut 2y ago
Any news about whether this will apply to RustRover too soon?
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Already.
- suby 2y ago
  RustRover is already free for non-commercial use.
  - alkonaut 2y ago
    Oh nice I thought it was just while it was in preview
bev-erage 2y ago
[dead]
TheRealPomax 2y ago
Can I just say I absolutely hate how the grid layout is ever so gently not straight until you scroll passed it, and then when you scroll back up it's all like "no I was always straight, what are you talking about". Stop making me worry about whether I'm having a stroke.
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  Yea it's terrible, I don't get the point. Is it supposed to be funny and "get you"? (Genuine question)
jdthedisciple 2y ago
Have been using VS Studio for 10+ years and never used Rider. What are the most compelling reasons to switch? I have heard lots of praise but little substance so far. For .NET dev it seems hard for any IDE to rival VS Studio's tight integration with the whole MS + .NET ecosystem.
- junto 2y ago
  Rider is an excellent IDE for .NET development. A lot less bloat than Visual Studio 2022. I’ve had a lot of my dev teams switch to it. We offer them both options. If you’re not working in legacy .NET Framework apps then I’d heavily suggest giving Rider a try.
  - jdthedisciple 2y ago
    This is exactly the kind of surface-level praise I often hear but what exactly is it? Is it objectively (significantly) more performant? How does the MAUI app development experience compare? Code completion? IIS-integration? Debugging? Look and feel? WPF / XAML designer? File explorer? Git integration? ...
    - arcastroe 2y ago
      It will come down to preference. The best tool for the job is the one you're familiar with. But if you've never tried Rider, I think it's good advice to try it and form your own opinion. You might like the built in code completions, with the included local LLM. If you've used the Resharper plugin for Visual Studio, you might like that those features come included in Rider. Same with DotPeek, if you like to decompile dependencies to view implementation details. You might also like Rider's built in 3 way merge with magic wand to auto resolve easy conflicts. If you also develop outside dotnet ecosystem, you might like that Rider has the same UI as Idea (java development) and Webstorm (frontend development), so switching between them is more familiar. One thing I don't like about Rider is its inline type hints. I think they clutter the code and I usually disable them. I haven't gone back to Visual Studio in a while, so I can't offer an honest comparison since my experience is a bit outdated. (But to be honest, I don't really use Rider too much nowadays either. I've mostly switched to VSCode. So take this with a grain of salt. And apologies I didn't address the items you listed. I just wanted to point out the items I personally took note of)
jdthedisciple 2y ago
In a way, it was about time: How else am I supposed to get convinced into buying it given the (probably more mature) default choice of VS Studio 22? Reading about the rationale for this move this seems to be precisely their reason too. Anyway, might try it out after all now given all the fuss ...
DidYaWipe 2y ago
What makes it tailored for .Net and games? Does that mean it's less appropriate for other types of development? For example, I'm using VS Code to work on a back-end based on Deno, which has a plug-in for VS Code. Would I find Rider a less-hospitable development environment?
- evoke4908 2y ago
  It has plugins that integrate with Godot and unity. Otherwise it's just a regular IDE. It also includes a WISYWIG editor for WPF apps if you care about that. Like VS, Rider will also do C++. In fact, CLion (their purpose built C++ IDE) is now running on Rider's backend. I'm sure that makes Rider very powerful for C++, but I haven't really tried. Rider is bar none the best IDE I've used and I've been subscribed for six or seven years now.
  - DidYaWipe 2y ago
    Thanks! I'm just wondering what else it's integrated with. If it doesn't have JavaScript auto-completion and whatever else the Deno VS Code plug-in provides, it wouldn't be as useful to me for my current project. As far as C++ goes, I wonder (based on the info you've provided) what CLion offers that Rider doesn't.
deleted 2y ago
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Karolis_K 2y ago
I like Rider very much, but personally moved to VSCode because of many little annoying bugs that aren't being fixed. E.g. typescript refactoring problems, .NET native code debugging from C#, TFS support etc. And maybe it's changing but I felt that the progress for new features and IDE maintenance stalled (for obvious reasons).
kwanbix 2y ago
I have a very good perception of Jetbrains as a brand, even though I have only used YouTrack for some days. What I don't understand is, why do they have so many IDEs instead of a single one? Is it really necesary? Are language writting/editing needs so different? Honest question here.
- LtdJorge 2y ago
  For tighter integration. For example, pip in Python is very different from Cargo in Rust o $whatever in C and C++. They are purpose built and integrate better with the language and tooling.
  - kwanbix 2y ago
    I get that, but do you think it is so different that they can not have different modules in the same IDE? I mean, visualstudio, for example, supports all languages from the same IDE.
    - joseda-hg 2y ago
      That's more or less the offering with Fleet although it is in Preview, it's just less stuff preconfigured
billfruit 2y ago
Will this happen for CLion too
horns4lyfe 2y ago
Rider is such an excellent IDE. This is great news for anyone involved in the .net world.

828 points by kretaceous 2y ago

slekker 2y ago

I'm learning F# and have been using VSCode. How different/better JetBrains Rider support for F# is?

terminalbraid 2y ago
Considering you get a better integrated environment rather than something designed more heavily around plugins you also get unquestionably much better refactoring tools. One thing to note that I just learned: You cannot opt out of anonymous data collection if you use the free non-commercial license. (I'd probably still trust Jetbrains over Microsoft, but that's me) https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride... I'd definitely recommend trying it out now that it's free. Your taste may vary.
chusk3 2y ago
Hi, I'm the maintainer for the VSCode F# support. Rider support for F# is great, that team is very engaged, and I'd strongly consider it if * you have mixed C#/F# projects in a solution (C# and F# support in VSCode can't communicate today) * you use Rider for other technology * you want paid support for your editor tools * you prefer IDE-style experiences rather than editor/ extension-style experiences * you want to take advantage of Rider features like their accelerated build caching
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  I appreciate the honesty and straightforwardness in this post given your position. Thank you.
debugnik 2y ago
In my experience, Rider's support for F# is much more stable and usable than Ionide, or even Visual Studio proper.

terminalbraid 2y ago

This is pretty huge all around, especially with Microsoft discontinuing Visual Studio for Mac. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022/what-happened-to-vs-for-mac https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/releases/2022... I'd also like to note the great integration Rider has with Godot and Unity for game development.

mananaysiempre 2y ago
Wasn’t VS for Mac a MonoDevelop build with amputated Linux support rather than a version of Visual Studio proper? Or am I out of date on this?
- billyhoffman 2y ago
  It started that way but wasn’t been for a while. In fact the last version was a rewrite using native macOS controls and optimized for Apple Silicon. Sad to see it go but heard great things about Rider for c# development.
  - nick_ 2y ago
    The newer mac version was actually showing huge promise. It was a couple of versions away from being a great choice as primary IDE. That said, I do understand why they axed it. The market would have been tiny for all that investment.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Shortly after the team managed to ship the 1.0 release of the rewrite, what a reward.
    - memsom 2y ago
      to be fair, I heard the team all got canned at the same time.
- LeFantome 2y ago
  Yes, that is what it was. Microsoft had continued to evolve it. And a few components from Visual Studio Windows were ported over to be common. But Visual Studio Mac was 100% rebranded Xamarin Studio which of course was just an evolution of MonoDevelop.

mattferderer 2y ago

As a paying subscriber I love this move for the .NET community. As a .NET dev for many years, I've noticed there have been periods of time where either Visual Studio or Rider was far better than the other. Currently, Rider is much better. Hopefully this encourages more people to try out C# & F#. Both fantastic languages. - Edit - Looks like Webstorm (JS/TS editor) is also free now.

CharlieDigital 2y ago
I had a Rider license for a while but just let it lapse. I've found myself totally satisfied with just VS Code on macOS (it's come a really long way). I'm glad that this move will possibly make .NET more accessible, but I think VSC is in a really good place with C# at the moment and shouldn't be overlooked.
- mattferderer 2y ago
  VS Code is really good at certain things but it struggles on larger projects & doesn't have near the advanced features. It's a very good choice though for a lot of projects. It's also a great way to try out C#. It has some amazing extensions for certain tasks too.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    VSC feels pretty capable in my books. We have a mono-repo with 100k lines of C# in 8 projects, 40k lines of Vue SFCs in 2 workspaces, 39k lines of TypeScript, 23k lines of Astro. No issues at all running it on a 2021 14" MacBook Pro with only 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD while also running multiple Docker containers for Postgres, Neo4j, Memcached, and LocalStack. My take is that folks should not underestimate VSC; there are certainly things that Rider does better, but VSC is totally viable for modern .NET backend work.
    - withinboredom 2y ago
      100k loc is not big. That’s a small-medium sized project.

alberth 2y ago

What an amazing accomplishment JetBrains has done. It's a bootstrapped, European company, doing $400M+ annually in revenue selling to developers (who are some of the most difficult buyers to convenience to pay). https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/annualreport-2023/ https://www.jetbrains.com/lp/annualreport-2023/

fkyoureadthedoc 2y ago
I'd love to pay for a lot of software and dev stuff. Convincing my job to do so is such a pain that I don't even try. I do pay for WebStorm and DataGrip myself though.
peutetre 2y ago
> selling to developers (who are some of the most difficult buyers to convenience to pay). All of whom, strangely, expect to be paid for their work.
- ozim 2y ago
  Given amount of open source available for free I can easily say your statement is totally wrong.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    That is exactly the point, those using the free tools expect to be paid, while feeling entitled about those free tools capabilities and zero monetary contributions.
  - javajosh 2y ago
    We expect to get paid for satisfying someone else's requirements. We do not expect to get paid to scratch our own itches.
  - izacus 2y ago
    Huge majority of OSS developers (especially for big projects) are paid for their opensource work too.

0x073 2y ago

Webstorm is now also free for non commercial use https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride...

laristine 2y ago
I couldn't believe it. WebStorm is easily among the best IDEs for web work (some of my coworkers would say the best) today.

buybackoff 2y ago

If they want to grab market share they should include dotMemory to the free offer. Basically dotUltimate without ReSharper. Otherwise free Rider users will need to install free Visual Studio for enhanced profiling.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More on official post here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128

schmorptron 2y ago

This is great! I found myself preferring the rider student license I had at home to Visual Studio we had at work when I was actively writing a lot of c# and some f# recently. It didn't feel fast outright, but at least faster than VS, and the memory profiler was much more immediately grokkable to me.

HatchedLake721 2y ago

WebStorm too https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-rider-are-now-free-for-non-commercial-use/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2024/10/24/webstorm-and-ride...

judge2020 2y ago
This is pretty huge since web technology has always been the “paid tier” for JB products
hbn 2y ago
Oh that's awesome! I'm a huge fan of the JetBrains IDEs - the way it understands code relieves so much mental overhead when tracing through my code, finding usages, refactoring, etc. It's one of the rare pieces of software I actually enjoy using. I just can't justify the cost for personal use for the amount I use it, and the fact that I've never really monetized a side project. Super happy they're making this move. I think there's good logic to getting people hooked with free personal use so they can convince their company to buy licenses for everyone at work.
Timon3 2y ago
Hm... I'm not sure whether this is a good or bad sign. I've been a Jetbrains user & proponent for many years, with most of my usage in WebStorm. But over the last ~2-3 years I've faced more and more bugs, some sitting open for weeks and months. Just for a short selection: - The autocomplete popup sometimes froze the IDE completely (and killing the process caused minutes of data loss), open for close to a year[0] - Since two months ago, the Typescript language server fails to start in Vue projects (due to a broken update by the Vue team). A fixed version of WebStorm was released yesterday, in the meantime you were apparently expected to search for the error message, stumble upon the YouTrack page, and apply a workaround[1] - Performance is abysmal in a larger React MUI project, think 10-15 seconds for feedback on code changes, sometimes errors just stick around for a good minute or more[2] - In some situations WebStorm makes autocomplete suggestions that aren't allowed - think effectively a type T with keys K | L, where Omit<T, K> leads to only suggesting K properties, while removing the Omit makes it suggest both K and L properties - After updating from 2024.1.X to 2024.2.Y, the window had no buttons for minimizing/maximizing anymore. Now, this was partially caused by my environment, but after I found a workaround it was closed as "Third Party Problem". Still feels like a regression to me, since my environment did not change. These are some of the more memorable ones from this year, but it feels like there's a new one every week. I'm pretty close to dropping my subscription, and this news doesn't fill me with confidence that the necessary investments in Q&A will be made. [0]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-6171/Random-freezes-when-code-suggestions-opens-on-New-UI https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/JBR-6171/Random-freezes... [1]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-68756/Vue-LS-2.x-Couldnt-Start-server.watchFiles-is-not-a-function https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-68756/Vue-LS-2.x-Co... [2]: https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-59766/Very-slow-code-analysis-in-React-MUI-Javascript-code https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/WEB-59766/Very-slow-cod...

Latty 2y ago

I'd been subscribed for the best part of a decade to their all products pack, liked the products, but they kept doing stuff that really rubbed me the wrong way in a paid product, e.g: shoving the AI offering down my throat and initially having no way to remove it, and then when I paid most recently, they sent me some spammy marketing for some third party product as a "thank you", and I cancelled my subscription there and then. I don't mind paying for a good product, but I want the experience to be less irksome than the free offerings out there, I get enough annoying advertising from free stuff I use, if I'm paying good money, I don't want that.

Habgdnv 2y ago
I was a paying customer for a long time, and their spam campaigns were the reason for my cancellation last year. Now I am a happy Microsoft Visual Studio Pro subscriber again. (happy in quotes btw)
- Latty 2y ago
  It's a shame, I like the tools generally, but so much stuff is just about bombarding you with ads now, paying for a good tool is, to me, meant to be the way to avoid that, that really soured me on it all.
rahkiin 2y ago
What is the problem you have with the AI? You can disable it, and otherwise it is run locally only. It does nice line-completion
- Latty 2y ago
  At launch it'd pop open the UI every time you opened any of the tools, and you couldn't uninstall the plugin. I understand you can now disable it, but it was annoying at the time, and demonstrated the issue I had with feeling like I was being advertised to in invasive ways despite being a paying customer.

renewiltord 2y ago

I really like their loyalty bonuses. The price for the whole thing drops down really low over time.

CraigJPerry 2y ago

As a looooooooong term intellij user, it surprised me that Rider is the more performant IDE (IDEA was the primary product - i expected it to have the best experience). I've used Rider a fair bit over the past 18 months or so (all products licence) and it's still very noticeable every time i spend time in Rider.

LeFantome 2y ago
I think some of Rider is written in C# vs all Java for IDEA. Could that be it?
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Their Resharper is indeed C#, only GUI is written using Kotlin.

lolinder 2y ago

This is also true of WebStorm now, too. Discussion on the announcement: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41935128

nurettin 2y ago

Sounds like they got a big present from Microsoft.

homebrewer 2y ago
No, they're feeling pressure from VSCode (which is primitive in comparison, but good enough for most people). Thus the new theme (which none of the old users asked for) — total clone of VSCode UI, and this announcement. It's the opposite of what you're thinking.
- memsom 2y ago
  Not sure which version of VSCode you think the new UI is a clone of, but I don't really see it. The tool buttons? VS has always had those, thought they had text by default. Tabs? VS has those too. Bottom bar? VS also. In fact, Rider looks like all the other Jetbrains IDEs - except Fleet, which is actually their VS Code competitor.
- sakesun 2y ago
  I agree. Definitely pressure from VSCode. I did a number of .NET projects with VSCode. It's indeed very good.

einpoklum 2y ago

Many developers have gratis JetBrains license on account of being involved in FOSS. I'm in that category - have to apply each year for a license by referring to (one of) my FOSS library(ies). It's just too bad that their UI is going in the direction of VSCode and others, become more... I guess I could say smartphone-like.

cmbernard333 2y ago

Now do CLion. I cannot stand using VS on windows.

wiseowise 2y ago
Try VSCode + clangd. Much better experience.
- adgrant 2y ago
  No thanks. I do use VS Code when I just want an editor (i.e. I don't want my CMake & vcpkg files parsed). Otherwise I prefer CLion for CMake projects and use the real Visual Studio for C++ vsproj files.

textlapse 2y ago

There are a few privately owned companies that amaze me: JetBrains, Valve among the top. Somehow they have a much better value/user and make reasonable decisions: counter intuitive to investors/shareholders but insanely intuitive to their users. I am sure the public market has made the general public reap the rewards of large companies (kudos!) but some of the privately owned companies are absolutely kicking ass to serve their customers instead. Rider is a really great product - probably the next generation of coders will be split between VS Code and Rider with this change.

terminalbraid 2y ago
I go pretty heavy on Jetbrains products, but they have stirred up the dev community a few times chasing things seen as investor friendly. In particular when they shoved their AI plugin as a required plugin with carried an obnoxious upsell nag. In general they've also spread themselves out across a ridiculous number of products where I'd prefer if they just focused on making their current stuff work (and not discontinue useful things like AppCode). CLion was practically unusable with the Mac toolchain for refactoring for a long time until they released the Nova backend. Fleet has been in public preview forever as a direct contender to VSCode and they spent a lot of work on it, incomplete, and then just let it sit there with minor stuff like getting themes after three years.
- talldayo 2y ago
  They also pulled the plug on free support for their Rust plugin which really upset me. Jetbrains is intent on making you pay before you get IDE functionality; I'd rather use VS Code or Zed these days.
  - NoboruWataya 2y ago
    RustRover is free for non-commercial use though? I liked the look of Zed when I first tried it out, but I read that it seems to have a strong cloud/AI focus which I don't want or need. I have started investing a bit of time in getting Vim working with all the bells and whistles and now it's a decent fallback when I can't use a JetBrains IDE for whatever reason.

sdflhasjd 2y ago

I wish Jetbrains could save me from Xcode. Please.

terminalbraid 2y ago
Same. Discontinuing AppCode was genuinely disappointing to me. Not sure if you can still download it, but it definitely hasn't seen a new major release since the 2023 version.
- hyperbrainer 2y ago
  Apparently, not enough people thought like you. [0] > While we’ve had some growth in terms of adoption, we didn’t reach the market share we had hoped for. We believe that the time has come to sunset the product and focus our efforts in other directions. [0] https://blog.jetbrains.com/appcode/2022/12/appcode-2022-3-release-and-end-of-sales-and-support/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/appcode/2022/12/appcode-2022-3-re...
- mdaniel 2y ago
  They had a Swift plugin release in June 2024 FWIW https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift/versions https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift/versions but I'm guessing one would need to do some plugin.xml surgery given the compatibility range is locked at 2023.1.7
alexashka 2y ago
But who's going to save you from the Swift compiler? :)
curlicue 2y ago
Same, this has been a big struggle personally, as an engineer I try to be flexible with the tools I need to use, but I also want my tools to bring me joy, and Xcode brings me nothing but frustration
mdaniel 2y ago
I'm thankful that I don't have to deal with Obj-C nor Swift in order to know if it would help your specific complaint but have you tried their Swift plugin for CLion? https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/8240-swift I do see the /!\ sunset /!\ warning but until they actually do nuke it, it could still be helpful

sebazzz 2y ago

Beautiful. Rider is an awesome a much faster IDE and I use it whenever possible. It is not practical for all projects. The only behaviour that annoys me a bit: - Double clicking an identifier should select the full identifier. However, in Rider (as opposed to Visual Studio) it is connected to the CamelHump setting - which is useful by itself. In Visual Studio you can have both CamelHump enabled and “double clicking the identifier selects the whole identifier”. - Any startup project tasks like maybe a “webpack watch task” is “in the way” when stopping run/debug of your current application. A separate task runner like in Visual Studio would be beneficial. - If a solution has file templates defined, every user needs to activate/select them manually in the settings. Quite cumbersome.

kernal 2y ago

Is Rider nerfed as much as the free version of IDEA is? And if not, then why isn't there a free noncommercial version of IDEA? This seems like a smack to the face for Java developers that want to use the full version of IDEA for noncommercial purposes.

chupasaurus 2y ago
Full version of IDEA is "make your own IDE" since you can add almost everything from their other IDEs.

scblzn 2y ago

However, be careful with the terms of non-commercial usage (Enforced heavy metrics) "You agree that the product will send usage data to validate your compliance with the license terms and anonymous feature usage statistics..." "The information collected under Sections 4.1. and 4.2. may include but is not limited to frameworks, file templates used in the Product, actions invoked, and other interactions with the Product’s features."

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thatfunkymunki 2y ago
https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/18786968063378-Hardcoded-DNS-queries https://intellij-support.jetbrains.com/hc/en-us/community/po... Not just that, they will do some yucky things to exfiltrate data from your network to enforce this.

bbx 2y ago

For someone who just got into game development on Mac, this is very interesting. I'd never heard of this IDE before. Will give it a try.

danhau 2y ago
You won’t regret it. They’re basically the industry leaders in IDEs. They also make JetBrains Mono, a fantastic monospace coding font.
jdthedisciple 2y ago
good luck, they will expect you to pay $149 / yr even if you don't make a penny off your game all the while you coulda probably just made it in VS code for free...
- askonomm 2y ago
  I wonder if construction workers also expect someone to give them free hammers and nails if they want to work on hobby projects. I doubt that. So maybe then software engineers shouldn't be so stuck up about not paying for their tools either?
  - jdthedisciple 2y ago
    unless there are competitors who do offer free hammers and nails (the VS Code of construction), I think your analogy fails
    - askonomm 2y ago
      That's fine, and yeah, perhaps my analogy isn't the greatest. But if you're ok with the free tools, why complain about the paid ones not being free as well? That's ridiculous to me at least. The paid ones offer value to clearly enough people to still be in business, and if you don't find that value useful to you, then don't .. use it?

psygn89 2y ago

The design of the yellow/black cells holding language/tech tripped me out for a sec, on my laptop they're all crooked at the top but align themselves after a certain amount of scroll. Thought I was seeing an optical illusion but a refresh shows that it's not. I don't think this was intentional.

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aggieNick02 2y ago
What on earth is up with that? It's not just you. It happens in both Chrome and Firefox. After a very small amount of scroll it goes away?!?!
DaemonAlchemist 2y ago
I see specific classes on the page that specify a one degree angle, so it seems to be intentional. I would guess it's to call your attention to the cells.
- aggieNick02 2y ago
  The one degree angle, while a little unusual, isn't what blows my mind. It's the disappearance after a small scroll. That's enough to make you think you were imagining things, might need to go to the eye doctor, etc...

9cb14c1ec0 2y ago

JetBrains licenses are one of the few software licenses that I pay for. Their IDEs have the features I need while keeping the UI from getting in the way.

ezekg 2y ago
I really, really wanted to like and use their IDEs (esp their Ruby 'intellisense' or w/e), but the lack of popular theme support kind of killed it for me. I wanted my IDE to look like my VSCode editor, but, at least a few years ago, that wasn't really possible since iirc there were only a handful of theme options.
- martypitt 2y ago
  They revamped the IDE a while back, it now feels much more VSCode-esque. Theming has moved on a fair bit too...
  - gjvc 2y ago
    They revamped the IDE a while back, it now feels much more VSCode-esque. biggest mistake they have made in a while.
    - mdaniel 2y ago
      Arguably the 2nd biggest: the biggest was when they made that shit mandatory, in that I can no longer go into Settings and uncheck "New UI". The breadcrumb placement[1] alone almost made me rage revert to 2023.something since it was so instrumental to my workflow. Maybe by next Oct I'll have retrained my brain to look in the new location, but goddamn was it that important to them? 1: yes, I am aware of the Setting that says "breadcrumb placement = top" and I am also aware it does absolutely nothing. I'm currently too burned out on their process to open a YouTrack about it
- luckylion 2y ago
  You can theme it yourself without too much hassle. I like my dark mode to be black rather than grey, and just made it do that, and it just works. It took an hour or three to understand the process because I'm not a Java person and am not familiar with any of the tooling, but then it was super easy. This was a few ago, so they may have improved that part by now, I've just carried my theme over the updates.

708733454927516 2y ago

Activation required. Still a nice deal. Also looks like an online account is required.

jdthedisciple 2y ago
They seem very ... concerned.

blorenz 2y ago

I have loved JetBrains ever since I entered their ecosystem for the End of the World Sale in 2012. As a professional developer, I need my tools to work for me and not against me. That is why I pay for these tools and I appreciate JetBrains' consistent iteration on making them even better. I do have a few gripes though. I wish the performance was better on my current setup on my M2 MBP. It is an awful experience when tools get in your way and break your flow. The file sync to MacOS is fairly laggy and new files that are created can take seconds to appear. UI interactions can be laggy. Sometimes invoking the context sensitive intentions/actions is blocking where it will hang for seconds. I need to keep my movements fluid to keep my train of thoughts on the track and not be derailed by my ADD. I also would like a plug-in system that wasn't entirely on Kotlin, Groovy and Java. I did Groovy dev in a past life but it's painful for me today. Thankfully ChatGPT gets me most of the way there. I wish there were JS/TS bindings to build upon. Overall, I'm pleased with JetBrains. I appreciate their content they put out on YouTube to further empower the developers that use their products with knowledge and guidance of efficiencies. I'll continue using it as my core IDE for the foreseeable future. I have augmented my flow with a bit of Cursor but JetBrains is the bread and butter.

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OtomotO 2y ago

I loved JetBrains IDEs years back. These days I am mostly using NeoVim. I decided today to stop supporting JetBrains BECAUSE there is no good kotlin language server. I would gladly pay them money even if I don't use their IDEs if only they provided a good language server.

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qwwdfsad 2y ago
I wonder though, do you expect good LSP to be available for commercial use free of charge?
- OtomotO 2y ago
  No, it's fine if I have to pay (but I said as much in my initial post, didn't I?). A kotlin project paid my bills for a long time, so I am totally fine investing 200bucks/year. But I don't want to use IdeaVim anymore, I want the real deal NeoVim, configured how I love it!
wiseowise 2y ago
> I decided today to stop supporting JetBrains BECAUSE there is no good kotlin language server. They’ve been awful stewards of the language despite investing so much into it.

kosolam 2y ago

Btw, as a paying ultimate user for the Java EE features I was surprised how good vscode support for the same is. And completely for free

alex_lav 2y ago

Rider is by far the best C# IDE. Especially if you're not running Windows. It was a real lifesaver while working with Unity.

jdthedisciple 2y ago
Well, I'd wager most C# devs are ... running Windows, so...
- danparsonson 2y ago
  That maybe true, but .NET runs natively on Linux these days too.
- adgrant 2y ago
  I have developed projects using C# on MacOS with deployment on Linux Docker containers.
- alex_lav 2y ago
  Unsure how true that is, but I certainly never did. Rider is better either way, but definitely better than alternatives on MacOS.

Kwpolska 2y ago

Rider is much better and faster than Visual Studio, and it's worth every penny. Making it free is a great move.

fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
I think it’s a bit worrisome that Microsoft can give away VS Code for free because they subsidize it in other ways, but JetBrains - a small software shop - clearly is being forced into this position. Just more Big Tech setting the terms for all of us trying to make a living.
- danhau 2y ago
  I suspect JB know most of their revenue comes from corporate licenses (I‘m guessing), so this shouldn‘t cut their bottom line significantly, while simultaneously giving them a foot in the door of potential new customers. Get them hooked for private / OS projects, then sell them commercial licenses.
  - fhdsgbbcaA 2y ago
    Agree, but some part of me feels uneasy with the idea that Big Tech can, and will, take any product somebody has put blood, sweat, and tears into, copy it, and give it away for free. This isn’t a new problem, but every time I see some form of “free” it gives me pause.
- jasomill 2y ago
  While I don't disagree with your overall point, it seems worth pointing out that JetBrains has over 2,000 employees, so it's only small in comparison with industry giants, and that Rider has been successfully competing with "free" from day one: both VSCode and Visual Studio have been free for non-commercial and commercial use by individuals and small organizations for longer than Rider has existed as a product. And Rider was built on IntelliJ and ReSharper, two products that successfully "competed with free" for many years before then. So, if anything, I'd say that JetBrains is at worst reasonably well-positioned to survive dumping by larger competitors with more diverse product lines.

KacharKhan 2y ago

Limited commercial use 1 to 3 devs should also be freek as projects this small usually are just starting and aren't profitable yet. Beyond that, yes , it should be sustainable for the team to pay for commercial license.

newaccount74 2y ago
No. If you have money to pay for developers, you also have money to pay for tools. Especially since software licenses are going to be a tiny fraction of what the developers cost.
- KacharKhan 2y ago
  What about 1 developer developing something for commercial use ?
  - innocenat 2y ago
    They also offer a personal license, which I would say should be affordable to any devs if they were getting money. Rider is $149/year for the first year, $119 for second, and $89/year for the third year onward.
    - KacharKhan 2y ago
      That calculation does not hold for developing countries. Rider's license fee is huge in countries with per capita GDP is a small fraction of USA's per capita GDP.
      - newaccount74 2y ago
        We should probably look at developer salaries / hourly rates rather than GDP. Most of the people in developing countries don't need IDEs. But yeah, if you work for low rates, then you have to work more hours to pay for your tools.

mattlondon 2y ago

Genuine question with an open mind: why would I use this and not vscode? I know people complain about lag in vscode but I have personally never experienced/noticed any. So with that in mind what does rider give that vscode cannot?

jw1224 2y ago
I’m a PhpStorm user so not familiar with Rider specifically, but in my experience JetBrains IDEs are exactly that: Integrated Development Environments. Whereas VSCode is more of a code editor first and foremost. There’s tons of overlap between the two, and for casual development VSCode will usually be fine. But as a professional I rely on IDEA to make a living, and it rarely lets me down. 95% of everything I could ever need comes out-of-the-box, so I don’t need to go plugin hunting (though there is a broad range of IDEA plugins too). In fact the IDEA plugins are cross-compatible, so plugins for Rider will work in PhpStorm, PyCharm, Rubymine, etc. The refactoring is outstanding, and leaps beyond what VSCode can do it. Basically it just understands my code like a real developer would. Not just simply checking syntax, but understanding project structure, naming conventions, coding styles, and more. PhpStorm gives me access to a full debugger, with inline breakpoints and execution step controls. “Find Usages” is incredibly thorough and even understands dynamic symbol names in many cases. Also I get a full MySQL and Redis client, right there in the UI. I can click on strings which refer to column names in my code, and they’ll appear in the DB panel instantly. At the end of the day these are power-user features, but I’m glad to have them and feel significantly more productive in a JetBrains IDE. Embracing static analysis and a full IDE was probably the single most beneficial upgrade to my skills and career.
- Contortion 2y ago
  I've tried VS Code and Haystack (based on VS Code) for writing PHP and I just couldn't stand it after having used PhpStorm. Basic things like copying variables, indenting, moving lines into if statements, multiple cursors etc. just aren't intuitive in VS Code when writing PHP and a lot of the things I can do in PhpStorm with the press of a button just aren't possible. I really hope they move PhpStorm to the same payment model as Rider so I can also use it for my own non-work projects.

MattRix 2y ago

Rider has a lot going for it, but I really can't stand the structure of JetBrains subscription. Why can't they just have a single monthly or annual price, rather than this absurd structure where the price gets cheaper over time, encouraging lock-in?

vunderba 2y ago
Uhhh no. Lock-in seems like hyperbole given that you can migrate over to any other IDE. And, especially given the fact that when you purchase an annual subscription, you were given a perpetual fall back license - meaning you can continue to use that version long after your subscription has lapsed.
collinstevens 2y ago
All Products Pack (12 IDEs, 3 extensions, 2 profilers) first year - $289.00 (+$116) second year - $231.00 (+$58) third year onwards - $173.00 you're locked in because of an extra $116 the first year and $58 the second year? https://www.jetbrains.com/store/?section=personal&billing=yearly https://www.jetbrains.com/store/?section=personal&billing=ye...
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  They may mean that they're locked into continuing the subscription to keep getting updates because if you have a break then you start at the high price again. Whenever you don't renew you get whatever version was out when you last renewed in perpetuity which is great. But if you decide you don't want it this year, but in two years you do, now you're back at the $289 price. Though if you pay $289 every other year you're still coming out ahead compared to an annual subscription so I don't know what the issue is.
wiether 2y ago
They're rewarding recurring customers, this is not a vendor lock-in.
- MattRix 2y ago

dzonga 2y ago

what does free for non-commercial use really mean ? if you make a game, then it gets popular what happens ? or some .net api? I'm always confused by such licensing terms e.g what ended up happening with Unity.

ubertaco 2y ago
Are you going to sell the thing you're using Rider to build? That's commercial use. If you're not going to sell it, it's probably not commercial use.
- ozim 2y ago
  I think parent has an issue where at first he develops something he thinks he won't sell but later it turns out he has opportunity to make money on it. My take would be, when decision to earn money one should buy the license for sure. I don't think you can somehow pay for previous use and I expect no one will hold it against you. But at the same time if you "develop non commercially" and you know you will be trying to monetize it most likely it will be hard to prove and no one has resources to catch every such case but remember that you become "big POS" for that.
  - bhandziuk 2y ago
    I think an unsuccessful commercial venture is still a commercial venture.
    - jdthedisciple 2y ago
      They can be pity like that if they want but they shouldnt be surprised if they cant scale their customer-base anymore at some point. Which is probably why they're beginning to change their strategy rn with this move ...
    - ozim 2y ago
      In my comment I am fully giving into that you can write OSS lib or some free to use tool with no intent to monetize and then suddenly you have to change it. Not that I believe in that scenario.

eugenekolo 2y ago

Awesome news.

p0w3n3d 2y ago

Regarding free non-commercial use in Jetbrains you need to accept that you'll get checked (not specified how, but I guess they will scrape your HDD? Or what? It’s also important to note that if you’re using a non-commercial license, you cannot opt out of the collection of anonymous usage statistics. This is similar to our Early Access Program (where statistics is opt-out) and in compliance with our Privacy Policy

jchw 2y ago
If you are willing to trust their own documentation, there is documentation about what is sent with anonymous usage statistics in Jetbrains IDEA IDEs: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html#categories_of_collected_data https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic... That said, if you mean "checked" as in checking for compliance, I don't think anonymous usage statistics are for that. For that they would need to not be anonymous. If they could identify who was improperly using the community versions, it would break the pinky promise of anonymity. (And for the record I personally doubt they are secretly correlating anonymous usage statistics, but if they were, using them for license compliance would involve either revealing that they did this or at least parallel construction.) That all said, I think everyone will just have to form their own opinion on whether to trust their statements and whether this is acceptable.
- graypegg 2y ago
  If I had to guess, there probably isn’t any direct monitoring of commercial-ness in the IDE, but also guessing there’s Jetbrains employees watching for public statements that mention/screenshot a Jetbrains product and will contact the business if their company is not on file. Only need a few hits to make that worth while.
  - p0w3n3d 2y ago
    I have company laptop and wanted to try writing something in rust (I found this on RustRover page) but I believe this violates my company's policies. However TBH I don't believe that if data goes somewhere it cannot be deanonymised. I would be more comfortable with clear license "this is my project, you can see it and I am not using it commercially", but not with "you must allow us to send some anonymous data"

antaviana 2y ago

The pricing page says the Free version collects anonymous data. I understand the paid versions don’t. Does it say anywhere the kind of anonymous data that is collected in the Free version?

russelg 2y ago
https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistics.html#categories_of_collected_data https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/settings-usage-statistic...

magic_hamster 2y ago

There is a lot of praise here for JetBrains. I love their products, but sadly they joined the devcontainer race way too late and the condition of their products does not allow for serious development with dev containers. Their Gateway application is still in beta, and it doesn't always work, but it's faring much better than their early access devcontainer IDEs which are in a sorry state. I can't believe that this late in the game my team has no choice but to actually give up on jetbrains for some time. We tried our best to make it work with their products because we enjoy them dearly. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. VSCode has a mature, and most important functioning, devcontainer ecosystem. Not sure if Rider even has devcontaier support but good for jetbrains for releasing a community edition.

atemerev 2y ago

Well, these code assistant AI models won’t train themselves…

jdthedisciple 2y ago
Can't neglect feeding the bot brains indeed...

pradn 2y ago

Anyone know how well this works with Godot?

briandear 2y ago

VIM is free too. As is Xcode.

solarkraft 2y ago

Microsoft should’ve done a Google and Licensed the JetBrains IDE for .Net. Visual Studio feels like Windows in all the worst ways. Rider saved me some sanity when I had to work with .Net.

mellosouls 2y ago

Note that you will still have to pay for the AI support, which is presumably a major factor in this strategy. ie. How many devs will really use it in it's "free" state as titled? Fewer and fewer I suspect. I'm sceptical about the prevalence of non-AI-centred-IDEs going forward - we live in a new era now - and I guess JetBrains have also come to that conclusion and this is a pivot to support the thesis.

issafram 2y ago
I don't care about AI support at all
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  If anything, not having AI is a bonus in my book.
- mellosouls 2y ago
  Fair enough, but I think that will be a minority view going forward; it has already become a core functionality across the industry, and that is what Jetbrains et al have to contend with.

alkonaut 2y ago

Any news about whether this will apply to RustRover too soon?

wiseowise 2y ago
Already.
suby 2y ago
RustRover is already free for non-commercial use.
- alkonaut 2y ago
  Oh nice I thought it was just while it was in preview

bev-erage 2y ago

[dead]

TheRealPomax 2y ago

Can I just say I absolutely hate how the grid layout is ever so gently not straight until you scroll passed it, and then when you scroll back up it's all like "no I was always straight, what are you talking about". Stop making me worry about whether I'm having a stroke.

jdthedisciple 2y ago
Yea it's terrible, I don't get the point. Is it supposed to be funny and "get you"? (Genuine question)

jdthedisciple 2y ago

Have been using VS Studio for 10+ years and never used Rider. What are the most compelling reasons to switch? I have heard lots of praise but little substance so far. For .NET dev it seems hard for any IDE to rival VS Studio's tight integration with the whole MS + .NET ecosystem.

junto 2y ago
Rider is an excellent IDE for .NET development. A lot less bloat than Visual Studio 2022. I’ve had a lot of my dev teams switch to it. We offer them both options. If you’re not working in legacy .NET Framework apps then I’d heavily suggest giving Rider a try.
- jdthedisciple 2y ago
  This is exactly the kind of surface-level praise I often hear but what exactly is it? Is it objectively (significantly) more performant? How does the MAUI app development experience compare? Code completion? IIS-integration? Debugging? Look and feel? WPF / XAML designer? File explorer? Git integration? ...
  - arcastroe 2y ago
    It will come down to preference. The best tool for the job is the one you're familiar with. But if you've never tried Rider, I think it's good advice to try it and form your own opinion. You might like the built in code completions, with the included local LLM. If you've used the Resharper plugin for Visual Studio, you might like that those features come included in Rider. Same with DotPeek, if you like to decompile dependencies to view implementation details. You might also like Rider's built in 3 way merge with magic wand to auto resolve easy conflicts. If you also develop outside dotnet ecosystem, you might like that Rider has the same UI as Idea (java development) and Webstorm (frontend development), so switching between them is more familiar. One thing I don't like about Rider is its inline type hints. I think they clutter the code and I usually disable them. I haven't gone back to Visual Studio in a while, so I can't offer an honest comparison since my experience is a bit outdated. (But to be honest, I don't really use Rider too much nowadays either. I've mostly switched to VSCode. So take this with a grain of salt. And apologies I didn't address the items you listed. I just wanted to point out the items I personally took note of)

jdthedisciple 2y ago

In a way, it was about time: How else am I supposed to get convinced into buying it given the (probably more mature) default choice of VS Studio 22? Reading about the rationale for this move this seems to be precisely their reason too. Anyway, might try it out after all now given all the fuss ...

DidYaWipe 2y ago

What makes it tailored for .Net and games? Does that mean it's less appropriate for other types of development? For example, I'm using VS Code to work on a back-end based on Deno, which has a plug-in for VS Code. Would I find Rider a less-hospitable development environment?

evoke4908 2y ago
It has plugins that integrate with Godot and unity. Otherwise it's just a regular IDE. It also includes a WISYWIG editor for WPF apps if you care about that. Like VS, Rider will also do C++. In fact, CLion (their purpose built C++ IDE) is now running on Rider's backend. I'm sure that makes Rider very powerful for C++, but I haven't really tried. Rider is bar none the best IDE I've used and I've been subscribed for six or seven years now.
- DidYaWipe 2y ago
  Thanks! I'm just wondering what else it's integrated with. If it doesn't have JavaScript auto-completion and whatever else the Deno VS Code plug-in provides, it wouldn't be as useful to me for my current project. As far as C++ goes, I wonder (based on the info you've provided) what CLion offers that Rider doesn't.

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Karolis_K 2y ago

I like Rider very much, but personally moved to VSCode because of many little annoying bugs that aren't being fixed. E.g. typescript refactoring problems, .NET native code debugging from C#, TFS support etc. And maybe it's changing but I felt that the progress for new features and IDE maintenance stalled (for obvious reasons).

kwanbix 2y ago

I have a very good perception of Jetbrains as a brand, even though I have only used YouTrack for some days. What I don't understand is, why do they have so many IDEs instead of a single one? Is it really necesary? Are language writting/editing needs so different? Honest question here.

LtdJorge 2y ago
For tighter integration. For example, pip in Python is very different from Cargo in Rust o $whatever in C and C++. They are purpose built and integrate better with the language and tooling.
- kwanbix 2y ago
  I get that, but do you think it is so different that they can not have different modules in the same IDE? I mean, visualstudio, for example, supports all languages from the same IDE.
  - joseda-hg 2y ago
    That's more or less the offering with Fleet although it is in Preview, it's just less stuff preconfigured

billfruit 2y ago

Will this happen for CLion too

horns4lyfe 2y ago

Rider is such an excellent IDE. This is great news for anyone involved in the .net world.