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Well, simple there is no need to reconcile it ? One can be successfull in one area and fail in another. Tesla is not a bad company. As an EV maker, it's as goo

Well, simple there is no need to reconcile it ? One can be successfull in one area and fail in another. Tesla is not a bad company. As an EV maker, it's as good as it gets (although it's still bad as a business). But if it was just that, it would be valued at 10% of what it is today, at best. But it's promoted by Musk, and priced by the market, as a revolutionnary one. And if you look at the history of it, you see it's all smoke and mirrors. In the process Musk cashed out > 40 billion USD.

dmd 2y ago
Anyone who thinks Tesla is “as good as it gets” hasn’t tried literally almost any other EV in the last few years.
- TheAlchemist 2y ago
  I meant an EV maker - as a business. They are making profit* while other EV makers are mostly not. As for the cars quality, you're absolutely right. * I also believe Tesla is pretty much cooking their books to show profits.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  Cybertruck became the 3rd best selling EV in the US after Model Y and 3. Looks like the people have spoken after looking at "literally almost any other EV in the last few years''.
- Schiendelman 2y ago
  In the last year, I've driven almost every new EV available for under $100,000. Tesla has more range per dollar than almost any others. Many have antiquated, unusable infotainment systems designed for legacy cars. Some get marked up by $10,000 or more by dealers. None have the simplicity of charging. Tesla is still selling most of the EVs on the road. Slowdowns attributed to Musk's shit behavior are never compared with their peers, who are having even worse slowdowns. Having driven nearly all of them, I understand why.
  - tw04 2y ago
    >Tesla has more range per dollar than almost any others. They don't - they inflate their estimated mileage across the board. Lucid runs circles around them dollar for dollar. >Many have antiquated, unusable infotainment systems designed for legacy cars. They pretty much all have carplay and android auto which runs circles around Tesla's antiquated interface. It was revolutionary a decade ago, it now looks like a tired android skin. Have you tried youtube music? You can't even properly like or dislike a song, much less properly navigate playlists. >Some get marked up by $10,000 or more by dealers. This literally isn't a thing. I don't know of ANY EV that you can't get at cost if you spend even 30 seconds looking. The dealers marking up cars ridiculous amounts during COVID hasn't been a normal thing for quite some time. >None have the simplicity of charging. Huh? You can drive a Ford Mach-E up to a Tesla charger, attach your adapter, plug it in, and it starts charging. The very first time you ever charge a given car, you do need to start it from the app to tie a tesla account to the car itself, after that it's plug and charge. >Tesla is still selling most of the EVs on the road. Slowdowns attributed to Musk's shit behavior are never compared with their peers, who are having even worse slowdowns. Having driven nearly all of them, I understand why. Having driven nearly all of them, I think I'm questioning if you have. Literally every other car I have driven has a nicer interior, a better technology system, and basic functionality that actually works like: auto wipers, cruise control that doesn't phantom brake for no reason, things you just take for granted in any modern car that Tesla decided wasn't worth spending a couple dollars per car to have work reliably. Tesla is absolutely compared to peers, and no their peers aren't having "even worse slowdowns". https://electrek.co/2024/10/22/gm-outpaces-us-rivals-q3-fewer-ev-incentives/ https://electrek.co/2024/10/22/gm-outpaces-us-rivals-q3-fewe...
    - Schiendelman 2y ago
      Are you interested in discussing any of these things you've said? Or are you interested in 'being right'? Let me know. Happy to discuss.
      - tw04 2y ago
        Sure. Let’s discuss why a 6-figure Tesla doesn’t have functioning automatic wipers? Elon insisted that would be easy with nothing but cameras. And if they can’t even get the wipers working, why should any of us believe they’ll solve full autonomy with nothing but cameras?
_yb2s 2y ago
They don’t seem to be a great EV maker anymore… they were definitely first to market with practical luxury EVs, but the old school car companies have caught up with better designed EVs and much higher build quality at the same price points. The high end German EVs from Porsche, Audi, BMW and Mercedes are overall much better cars then a Model S in the same price range. Not just the general build quality, but the EV tech itself is generally more advanced than what Tesla is offering- faster charging, better battery cooling and charge management, better traction control, etc.
- metadat 2y ago
  The range of the Porsches still sucks, go to any dealer and notice the beautiful and fancy Porsche Taycan EVs sitting around unclaimed with a sales guy eager to make a deal. The BMW's are also a blight upon the eye, it's laughable. But you aren't wrong, Kia has nailed it where it matters.. their latest are extremely popular, there are tons in the Bay Area. Yuck, but it's true*. May be worth a shot if you're in the unfortunate position of needing new transportation. https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev * I have no vested interest in any car company, I drive very few miles per year and my cars are old AF. I have a lot of friends, though. Only want the best for you, Internet friend. Cheers. P.s. Combustion Kia's suck ass, trash trying to move upmarket, lol. Hello humanity.
  - _yb2s 2y ago
    My daily driver is a 25 year old Porsche sports car and it has less fuel range than a new Taycan. Porsche has always sold track ready cars from the factory- with all of the compromises that entails. The Taycan is a much better designed and made car than a Model S. Porsche also is a company that doesn’t exaggerate their specs like Tesla does- a quick google search suggests the real world range of the Taycan is actually higher than the Model S despite a massive difference in the specs. I’ve also heard Kias EVs are great cars.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Porsche Macan has a range of 613 km (381 mi) better than a Performance Model 3. And is overall better at charging (270kw max). Also BMW has seen strong EV growth: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0443729EN/bmw-group-posts-strong-growth-in-fully-electric-vehicles-and-upper-premium-segment-in-first-half-of-2024?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T044372...
_ea1k 2y ago
Yeah, Tesla has been really good at getting the whole package together with cars. The Model 3 is really the best EV on the market, IMO. It isn't the fastest accelerating. It doesn't charge the fastest. It doesn't have the longest range. It isn't the cheapest. But the balance of all four of those still manages to be better than basically anything else out there, though the Ioniq 6 is extremely close.
- marticode 2y ago
  But it has the worst build quality, interior and controls. These are not numerically measurable but they certainly do matter to prospective buyers. As does even more subjective things like styling, which is now pretty dated. Either way I suspect it now doesn't really matter because this is becoming the "Trump-mobile" which makes it a non starter for a lot of politically conscious peoples.
  - iknowstuff 2y ago
    counterpoint; love the interior. all the widgets in other OEMs look hilarious by comparison. controls? the car literally drives me around town by itself

dmd 2y ago

Anyone who thinks Tesla is “as good as it gets” hasn’t tried literally almost any other EV in the last few years.

TheAlchemist 2y ago
I meant an EV maker - as a business. They are making profit* while other EV makers are mostly not. As for the cars quality, you're absolutely right. * I also believe Tesla is pretty much cooking their books to show profits.
ivewonyoung 2y ago
Cybertruck became the 3rd best selling EV in the US after Model Y and 3. Looks like the people have spoken after looking at "literally almost any other EV in the last few years''.
Schiendelman 2y ago
In the last year, I've driven almost every new EV available for under $100,000. Tesla has more range per dollar than almost any others. Many have antiquated, unusable infotainment systems designed for legacy cars. Some get marked up by $10,000 or more by dealers. None have the simplicity of charging. Tesla is still selling most of the EVs on the road. Slowdowns attributed to Musk's shit behavior are never compared with their peers, who are having even worse slowdowns. Having driven nearly all of them, I understand why.
- tw04 2y ago
  >Tesla has more range per dollar than almost any others. They don't - they inflate their estimated mileage across the board. Lucid runs circles around them dollar for dollar. >Many have antiquated, unusable infotainment systems designed for legacy cars. They pretty much all have carplay and android auto which runs circles around Tesla's antiquated interface. It was revolutionary a decade ago, it now looks like a tired android skin. Have you tried youtube music? You can't even properly like or dislike a song, much less properly navigate playlists. >Some get marked up by $10,000 or more by dealers. This literally isn't a thing. I don't know of ANY EV that you can't get at cost if you spend even 30 seconds looking. The dealers marking up cars ridiculous amounts during COVID hasn't been a normal thing for quite some time. >None have the simplicity of charging. Huh? You can drive a Ford Mach-E up to a Tesla charger, attach your adapter, plug it in, and it starts charging. The very first time you ever charge a given car, you do need to start it from the app to tie a tesla account to the car itself, after that it's plug and charge. >Tesla is still selling most of the EVs on the road. Slowdowns attributed to Musk's shit behavior are never compared with their peers, who are having even worse slowdowns. Having driven nearly all of them, I understand why. Having driven nearly all of them, I think I'm questioning if you have. Literally every other car I have driven has a nicer interior, a better technology system, and basic functionality that actually works like: auto wipers, cruise control that doesn't phantom brake for no reason, things you just take for granted in any modern car that Tesla decided wasn't worth spending a couple dollars per car to have work reliably. Tesla is absolutely compared to peers, and no their peers aren't having "even worse slowdowns". https://electrek.co/2024/10/22/gm-outpaces-us-rivals-q3-fewer-ev-incentives/ https://electrek.co/2024/10/22/gm-outpaces-us-rivals-q3-fewe...
  - Schiendelman 2y ago
    Are you interested in discussing any of these things you've said? Or are you interested in 'being right'? Let me know. Happy to discuss.
    - tw04 2y ago
      Sure. Let’s discuss why a 6-figure Tesla doesn’t have functioning automatic wipers? Elon insisted that would be easy with nothing but cameras. And if they can’t even get the wipers working, why should any of us believe they’ll solve full autonomy with nothing but cameras?

_yb2s 2y ago

They don’t seem to be a great EV maker anymore… they were definitely first to market with practical luxury EVs, but the old school car companies have caught up with better designed EVs and much higher build quality at the same price points. The high end German EVs from Porsche, Audi, BMW and Mercedes are overall much better cars then a Model S in the same price range. Not just the general build quality, but the EV tech itself is generally more advanced than what Tesla is offering- faster charging, better battery cooling and charge management, better traction control, etc.

metadat 2y ago
The range of the Porsches still sucks, go to any dealer and notice the beautiful and fancy Porsche Taycan EVs sitting around unclaimed with a sales guy eager to make a deal. The BMW's are also a blight upon the eye, it's laughable. But you aren't wrong, Kia has nailed it where it matters.. their latest are extremely popular, there are tons in the Bay Area. Yuck, but it's true*. May be worth a shot if you're in the unfortunate position of needing new transportation. https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev https://www.kia.com/us/en/ev * I have no vested interest in any car company, I drive very few miles per year and my cars are old AF. I have a lot of friends, though. Only want the best for you, Internet friend. Cheers. P.s. Combustion Kia's suck ass, trash trying to move upmarket, lol. Hello humanity.
- _yb2s 2y ago
  My daily driver is a 25 year old Porsche sports car and it has less fuel range than a new Taycan. Porsche has always sold track ready cars from the factory- with all of the compromises that entails. The Taycan is a much better designed and made car than a Model S. Porsche also is a company that doesn’t exaggerate their specs like Tesla does- a quick google search suggests the real world range of the Taycan is actually higher than the Model S despite a massive difference in the specs. I’ve also heard Kias EVs are great cars.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Porsche Macan has a range of 613 km (381 mi) better than a Performance Model 3. And is overall better at charging (270kw max). Also BMW has seen strong EV growth: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0443729EN/bmw-group-posts-strong-growth-in-fully-electric-vehicles-and-upper-premium-segment-in-first-half-of-2024?language=en https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T044372...

_ea1k 2y ago

Yeah, Tesla has been really good at getting the whole package together with cars. The Model 3 is really the best EV on the market, IMO. It isn't the fastest accelerating. It doesn't charge the fastest. It doesn't have the longest range. It isn't the cheapest. But the balance of all four of those still manages to be better than basically anything else out there, though the Ioniq 6 is extremely close.

marticode 2y ago
But it has the worst build quality, interior and controls. These are not numerically measurable but they certainly do matter to prospective buyers. As does even more subjective things like styling, which is now pretty dated. Either way I suspect it now doesn't really matter because this is becoming the "Trump-mobile" which makes it a non starter for a lot of politically conscious peoples.
- iknowstuff 2y ago
  counterpoint; love the interior. all the widgets in other OEMs look hilarious by comparison. controls? the car literally drives me around town by itself