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But the us american economy is subsidized by everyone on the planet that trades in us currency and thus buys up the money its able to print. So those numbers ar

But the us american economy is subsidized by everyone on the planet that trades in us currency and thus buys up the money its able to print. So those numbers are- dubious baseball stats at best?

ambicapter 2y ago
What makes that dubious? It makes this advantage rest on a single factor, but the advantage is still there, no?
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  I'm the furthest thing from an economist, but I'm guessing that it feels like we're in a vulnerable position. I.e., that it indicates our "wealth" could be pulled away from us on very short notice. Contrasted to, e.g the wealth being from sales of some commodity that the rest of the world will need for the next decade: crops, certain metals, or (maybe) oil/LNG.
  - sickofparadox 2y ago
    Well the US is a net exporter on oil and LNG, pretty much even on agriculture and every few months a new "world's largest deposit" of some critical material article comes up.[1,2] So I think we really are debating whether the chicken or the egg came first, and the answer is that dinosaurs were laying eggs before chickens started clucking. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-largest-deposit-lithium-may-231936498.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-largest-deposit-lithiu... [2]https://www.theearthandi.org/post/estimated-2-34-billion-metric-tons-of-rare-earth-minerals-discovered-in-us https://www.theearthandi.org/post/estimated-2-34-billion-met...
LUmBULtERA 2y ago
I don't buy the assumption that others are "subsidizing" the USD when they choose to use it -- they're choosing to use USD for their own benefit.
- r3trohack3r 2y ago
  I disagree with OPs conclusion but not the thesis. I do, currently, think there is some level of “subsidizing” (wrong word) happening in the west. USD is the wests reserve currency. It’s held by many western countries and much of western trade is denominated it in. When the US prints money, they dilute the western reserve currency. It lets the US spend the value of every USD holder (including the value of debt denominated in the currency). In other words, I think the US can spend the value of a large slice of the western economy (not just its domestic economy) on its own infrastructure and military projects through inflation by printing money.
  - marcosdumay 2y ago
    > USD is the wests reserve currency. Kinda. US treasure bills are the main world's reserve actives. But the world also holds other kinds of active, and none of that is exactly caused by the dollar denominating trade. Trade denomination causes some inflation exporting that can mess with other economies due to price stickness. But again, that's nothing like the OP claims.
- adamnemecek 2y ago
  Choosing is the wrong word as there aren’t many other choices.
datadrivenangel 2y ago
The US Dollar is an export. It'll be hard for our economy if we stop exporting it, but that's true of any export.
- TrainedMonkey 2y ago
  U.S. dollar is reserve currency for a significant portion of the world. This means when U.S. can inject a lot higher fraction of the GPD into the economy for the same inflation cost. As a matter of fact U.S. wants some inflation to devalue high amount of debt they have - so there is an incentive to print USD.
busterarm 2y ago
It's not just that. Compare the GDP per capita of individual US States to other countries. Even the poorest performing US State is still doing better than most of Europe.
- vanrysss 2y ago
  I'd invite you to visit Mississippi and then any of the top five EU countries and let me know which one you'd rather live in.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    Oh I am well aware, but that's more of a slam on those countries for having such poor economic product. Low GDP means lack of growth and lack of opportunity in the future. Then consider that Luxembourg and Ireland only top the list as a result of being tax havens for the world's rich. The picture looks grim. Mississippi isn't well populated but most European countries are...so while those countries may be nicer places to live now, Mississippi's future looks brighter. 20 years of totally flat GDP growth capped by a brutal recession was more than enough for Sweden to switch gears and backpedal on an enormous amount of social welfare policy in the early 90s.
  - r2_pilot 2y ago
    Some people who actually live in Mississippi do so by choice, ya know, and feel that it's important to contribute to the improvement of the citizenry. But yeah, take the local minimum and compare it, apples to oranges, to a local maxima of a top EU country. Even so, there's still a lot going for Mississippi.
legitster 2y ago
This is a terrible, terrible understanding of how international trade works. It's also not even relevant when comparing GDPR per capita.
seizethecheese 2y ago
This feels not even wrong. The American economy is generating massive amounts of goods and services. This is a relatively hard fact. The effect of the dollar being a worldwide currency is complex and not so straightforward. Strong demand for dollars actually would increase dollar value, which would increase borrowing costs, ceteris paribus. The US then increases money supply, to accommodate. It’s unclear that this dramatically increases GDP. Unless your assertion is that the financial industry is overdeveloped? I don’t think it’s more than 10% of GDP off the top of my head.

But the us american economy is subsidized by everyone on the planet that trades in us currency and thus buys up the money its able to print. So those numbers are- dubious baseball stats at best?

ambicapter 2y ago

What makes that dubious? It makes this advantage rest on a single factor, but the advantage is still there, no?

CoastalCoder 2y ago
I'm the furthest thing from an economist, but I'm guessing that it feels like we're in a vulnerable position. I.e., that it indicates our "wealth" could be pulled away from us on very short notice. Contrasted to, e.g the wealth being from sales of some commodity that the rest of the world will need for the next decade: crops, certain metals, or (maybe) oil/LNG.
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  Well the US is a net exporter on oil and LNG, pretty much even on agriculture and every few months a new "world's largest deposit" of some critical material article comes up.[1,2] So I think we really are debating whether the chicken or the egg came first, and the answer is that dinosaurs were laying eggs before chickens started clucking. [1] https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-largest-deposit-lithium-may-231936498.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/worlds-largest-deposit-lithiu... [2]https://www.theearthandi.org/post/estimated-2-34-billion-metric-tons-of-rare-earth-minerals-discovered-in-us https://www.theearthandi.org/post/estimated-2-34-billion-met...

LUmBULtERA 2y ago

I don't buy the assumption that others are "subsidizing" the USD when they choose to use it -- they're choosing to use USD for their own benefit.

r3trohack3r 2y ago
I disagree with OPs conclusion but not the thesis. I do, currently, think there is some level of “subsidizing” (wrong word) happening in the west. USD is the wests reserve currency. It’s held by many western countries and much of western trade is denominated it in. When the US prints money, they dilute the western reserve currency. It lets the US spend the value of every USD holder (including the value of debt denominated in the currency). In other words, I think the US can spend the value of a large slice of the western economy (not just its domestic economy) on its own infrastructure and military projects through inflation by printing money.
- marcosdumay 2y ago
  > USD is the wests reserve currency. Kinda. US treasure bills are the main world's reserve actives. But the world also holds other kinds of active, and none of that is exactly caused by the dollar denominating trade. Trade denomination causes some inflation exporting that can mess with other economies due to price stickness. But again, that's nothing like the OP claims.
adamnemecek 2y ago
Choosing is the wrong word as there aren’t many other choices.

datadrivenangel 2y ago

The US Dollar is an export. It'll be hard for our economy if we stop exporting it, but that's true of any export.

TrainedMonkey 2y ago
U.S. dollar is reserve currency for a significant portion of the world. This means when U.S. can inject a lot higher fraction of the GPD into the economy for the same inflation cost. As a matter of fact U.S. wants some inflation to devalue high amount of debt they have - so there is an incentive to print USD.

busterarm 2y ago

It's not just that. Compare the GDP per capita of individual US States to other countries. Even the poorest performing US State is still doing better than most of Europe.

vanrysss 2y ago
I'd invite you to visit Mississippi and then any of the top five EU countries and let me know which one you'd rather live in.
- busterarm 2y ago
  Oh I am well aware, but that's more of a slam on those countries for having such poor economic product. Low GDP means lack of growth and lack of opportunity in the future. Then consider that Luxembourg and Ireland only top the list as a result of being tax havens for the world's rich. The picture looks grim. Mississippi isn't well populated but most European countries are...so while those countries may be nicer places to live now, Mississippi's future looks brighter. 20 years of totally flat GDP growth capped by a brutal recession was more than enough for Sweden to switch gears and backpedal on an enormous amount of social welfare policy in the early 90s.
- r2_pilot 2y ago
  Some people who actually live in Mississippi do so by choice, ya know, and feel that it's important to contribute to the improvement of the citizenry. But yeah, take the local minimum and compare it, apples to oranges, to a local maxima of a top EU country. Even so, there's still a lot going for Mississippi.

legitster 2y ago

This is a terrible, terrible understanding of how international trade works. It's also not even relevant when comparing GDPR per capita.

seizethecheese 2y ago

This feels not even wrong. The American economy is generating massive amounts of goods and services. This is a relatively hard fact. The effect of the dollar being a worldwide currency is complex and not so straightforward. Strong demand for dollars actually would increase dollar value, which would increase borrowing costs, ceteris paribus. The US then increases money supply, to accommodate. It’s unclear that this dramatically increases GDP. Unless your assertion is that the financial industry is overdeveloped? I don’t think it’s more than 10% of GDP off the top of my head.