9 ms·

Google is preparing to let you run Linux apps on Android, just like Chrome OS

178 points by politelemon 2y ago

eternityforest 2y ago
I really hope this takes off. Android is such a nice OS, and if it could run Linux apps I would probably want to run it on my laptop too!
ghysznje 2y ago
That means we can finally let termux rest in peace?
- mistaken 2y ago
  This seems to run a VM rather than natively supporting linux syscalls. So termux will be more performant with its natively compiled binaries than this solution.
Permik 2y ago
They're essentially just trying to bring Android to feature parity with Chrome OS, as they're moving Chrome OS to run on top of Android in the future.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  I wonder what's happening to Fuchsia, if anything at all.
  - manbash 2y ago
    I do too wonder. Given the disruption of LLM everywhere, and in Google specifically, I wouldn't be surprised if the headcount was reduced in these teams as well.
  - mdhb 2y ago
    Despite all of the rumors of its demise its continued to have a large number of daily commits to it the entire year so far. It’s clearly not “dead” I think medium to long term it still becomes the uber unified cross device operating system for them. Chrome is taking a dependency on Androids underlying networking stack for now and picking up the ability to essentially run it in a VM and Android itself is also picking up the ability to run Fuchsia in a VM. Fuchsia is picking up the ability to have full Linux compatibility as well via their Starnix efforts. All of the pieces are starting to come together to make that more and more seamless until presumably at some point they are ready to start calling them the same thing fundamentally. Sources https://www.androidauthority.com/microfuchsia-on-android-3457788/ https://www.androidauthority.com/microfuchsia-on-android-345... https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/starnix https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/starn... https://blog.chromium.org/2024/06/building-faster-smarter-chromebook.html?m=1 https://blog.chromium.org/2024/06/building-faster-smarter-ch...
- theanonymousone 2y ago
  Yes. They are clearly moving in that direction. I hope though, that they "backport" this new core to existing devices too. Will be a disaster to make so many machines obsolete. And to ChromeOS Flex too. Definitely.
  - squarefoot 2y ago
    > Will be a disaster to make so many machines obsolete. Not at all. Most Chromeboxes/books can be unlocked to install whichever OS the user wishes. I have like a half dozen of them happily running Debian, Manjaro and Alpine after unlocking and reflashing them with the firmware (Coreboot) at https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/ They're really good quality hardware, and once given a proper OS they become very reliable mini PCs.
    - theanonymousone 2y ago
      Sure. But there is a reason some people prefer ChromeOS (Flex) to other Desktop Linux.
matt3210 2y ago
Might draw me off my iPhone....
- Rygian 2y ago
  How do you run your linux apps on your iPhone?
  - piersj225 2y ago
    ish will give you a shell https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ish-shell/id1436902243 https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ish-shell/id1436902243 I don’t think you can run anything requiring a GUI
  - benoau 2y ago
    I've heard of using UTM + https://github.com/osy/Jitterbug https://github.com/osy/Jitterbug to enable JIT.
  - nolist_policy 2y ago
    My interpretation: They don't.
tkubacki 2y ago
Day it will take off and be usable will be the day I leave iOS.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  You can count me too.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  I've run Linux command line tools and GUI tools using Termux and a random X11 app. . It already works, just not with stuff requiring root permissions (no wireshark etc.). Apps like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula do it through VNC instead. What I found to be the most limiting factor isn't the OS, but the tiny screen and the lack of good input methods. Funnily enough, Samsung ran trials where their Dex mode provided a full Linux GUI when plugged into a monitor/USB dock, but that got killed off. Now Dex is back to being an Android desktop environment again. On the plus side, Dex now also works on tablets without being docked, so I guess that was worth it for me.
- transpute 2y ago
  GrapheneOS + AVF/pKVM on Pixel Tablet looks promising. Hopefully the next Pixel Tablet includes an optional wired keyboard. iPad Pro had VMs in 2022, sadly removed by Apple.
tjpnz 2y ago
Presumably this would include Steam?
- extraduder_ire 2y ago
  I don't think that'd be very useful on an ARM based android device. But they could release an ARM version of steam eventually. Android devices with decent x86 emulation being released would be the ideal way to have that setup. Hopefully Qualcomm doesn't gate that feature to windows laptops.
  - _joel 2y ago
    Alternatively, do it natively, https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/steam-likely-coming-to-arm-chips-with-support-for-hundreds-of-windows-games-valve-testing-arm64-proton-compatibility-layer https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/steam-lik...
    - tjpnz 2y ago
      Big hint about the Steam Deck 2 there.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  If you want to run Windows games on Android, Winlator already does a lot of work for you (packaging Wine+Box86/Box64). My phone isn't exactly a powerhouse so the most impressive game I've been able to play with has been Oblivion so far. What doesn't help is that the ARM GPUs in most phones don't work like the GPUs on desktop. Their I/O model is different, so you can't just take desktop shaders, transpile them, and run them on mobile without losing a boatload of performance. Maybe the desktop-ish chips will work for that, but I wouldn't hold my breath at the moment.
- SunlitCat 2y ago
  Well there is a steam client for Android already. They could extend that to an app store and sell mobile games there too, maybe even getting developers of pc games to port their games to mobile platforms?
samoit 2y ago
I would advise against this. I have enough with google monopoly in the browser and mobile areas to add another one in the desktop market with this, plus android is not a privacy/safe environment to use. I will probably run android apps if necessary in my linux box, not the oposite.
- wiseowise 2y ago
  Heard that Google? Stop immediately.
  - samoit 2y ago
    Its about your choice, not google's. Do not use google crap if possible
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Of course you use applications on some systems also according to the trust that you have towards said systems. There are still applications that could be nice to have running on Android - it is a possibility. Plus: you know, you could use Android on an airgapped device... Many of mine are.
devsda 2y ago
Apart from development, one of the main reasons someone would want to have linux on android is to work with data on your mobile like sms, camera images or interface with apps using popular or custom linux apps. Given the way Google has been restricting the utility of termux under the guise of security for the past few Android releases, I think they will keep the access to main os and it's data as minimal as possible. It is great if it is, but I don't think it will be a substitute for termux and its api any time soon. It's still better than nothing and a good thing for development purpose. Edit: typo
- rerdavies 2y ago
  I agree. Permissioning is going to be a huge problem, given that I rather doubt that google is going to allow anyone to "sudo".
  - rfoo 2y ago
    Pretty sure Google is going to allow anyone to "sudo". ... in the Linux virtual machine.
- izacus 2y ago
  This is bringing the ChromeOS version of containers which are completely isolated from the outside OS - they have their own mounted storaage. You can mount in some folders to share data, but that's it. You DO have sudo though. I bet it's going to be the same here.
extraduder_ire 2y ago
The example of running android studio is a great one if that becomes easier than it currently is. (apparently you can do it via termux, if you replace the java runtime in the download) Develop/deploy on the same device would make getting into android dev much easier. Also, you have your dev tools with you wherever you are, in case you run into a bug or something while testing your app.
- tdeck 2y ago
  You might be interested in AIDE which has been around for ages https://www.android-ide.com/ https://www.android-ide.com/
  - jeroenhd 2y ago
    When I click the "get it on Google Play" link, I get a 404. Did it die?
    - thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
      The last time I looked at it (several years ago), it had become a subscription-locked money grab. It was listed as a free app in the Play Store, but when you ran it, you could not do anything without buying a subscription. The reviews for it said it was full of dark patterns and shady stuff. Some developer blogs described how good and capable it was, but it seems that they were written before the money grab changes.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    I thought AIDE was a dead project, and that the closest available be https://androidide.com https://androidide.com
wiseowise 2y ago
Google finally doing something good with Android? Doubt it’s a consequence of recent lawsuit, but they should get sued more.
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  It's clearly a ChromeOS support feature. Most likely nothing that would relate to your phones.
anonzzzies 2y ago
That would be a killer feature for me; it's already close with termux etc, but that's not good enough for some things. If it could run Docker as well... Can it on chromeos? Never used Chromeos.
- profsummergig 2y ago
  I think in ChromeOS you can run Linux (sort of like WSL2 in Windows). I don't think one can run Linux apps directly in ChromeOS. One can run Android apps directly in ChromeOS though.
  - nolist_policy 2y ago
    Android on ChromeOS runs in a VM as well nowadays.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  It can, on ChromeOS it's a fully featured Debian VM with seamless Wayland, VirGL and USB passtrough.
- agilob 2y ago
  Effortlessly hosting home assistant in a podman on my old android would be awesome.
- fsflover 2y ago
  My smartphone (Librem 5) already runs Linux apps, because it runs GNU/Linux.
  - ruthmarx 2y ago
    How's the battery life? Can you still run Androids apps?
    - fsflover 2y ago
      The battery life is about a day, or 4-5 hours of screen time. Fortunately, the battery is replaceable without tools. Yes, Android apps in general work fine, apart from those relying on the DRM.
qwertox 2y ago
In Linux it's trivial to have long-running processes. In Android it's the opposite. So I wonder if I create a Python script which runs 24/7 and collects the sensor data, if it will get killed at will by the OS or if it just runs the 24/7 like it would on Linux.
- tjoff 2y ago
  My long running processes in termux runs just fine.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Are you using an Android version before 12? See last paragraphs of https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/FAQ#Will_Termux_work_on_Android_11 https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/FAQ#Will_Termux_work_on_Android...
    - tjoff 2y ago
      Many of those paragraphs are apparent out of date. I run android 14.
      - mdp2021 2y ago
        So more recent versions of Android have fixed the issue of killing background processes (Android 12), or Termux has found a programmatic way around it? Good to know.
        tjoff 2y ago
        My normal usecases are ssh sessions that run for weeks (months?) at a time and I run backups that takes up to an hour with rsync and have never had any issues. Not saying that there aren't usecases that will run into issues, I've just not run into it. Can't see how a python script running 24/7 collecting sensor data would have any issues. And this has worked fine for me in every single android version since forever (long before v.12 and every version after) (though there have been some teething issues right after a new version is released, most notably permissions on storage. But last versions have been without any hassle that I can remember). There apparently are issues with more than 32 phantom processes or excessive CPU and some options to turn it off but it is not something I've ever had to do. https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/en/docs/apps/processes/phantom-cached-and-empty-processes.md#internal-details-for-android-14-and-higher https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/... https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/en/docs/apps/processes/phantom-cached-and-empty-processes.md#commands-for-android-14-and-higher https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/... Maybe a problem with people trying to run a full featured linux distro with GUI support etc? Cool but never had a need. Termux environment is rich and powerful as it is.
Roark66 2y ago
It's a trap. We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions like termux, qpython and others. They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do it without a pr hit. So they just "pretend" to bring in crappy Linux support while removing what people actually use. You want terminal apps on that Linux? (99% of what I use) You need to connect a USB keyboard. Oh, you want X11 apps? They need to ve rebuilt with our "library" (that will probably require significant redevelopment). And so on. No, I don't trust Google neither other monopolies.
- throawayonthe 2y ago
  this is based on pKVM, and should bring rootful VMs on unrooted devices
  - soupbowl 2y ago
    "should" We shall see.
  - asimovfan 2y ago
    what does rootful mean here? I can't run wireshark on crostini (linux in chromeOS) for example.
    - throawayonthe 2y ago
      is that not because it's a VM rather than lack of privileges? you would see the virtual network interface
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Termux is no longer available via Play store as they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space for specific official APIs.
  - silisili 2y ago
    Termux is available via the Play store right now, on Android at least.
openrisk 2y ago
Obligatory joke that the year of the linux desktop may finally come as the android desktop. I wonder how usable/peformant such as setup would be. But conceivably it could incentivise more native linux app development along the lines of KDE/Qt etc. if there is larger distribution potential.
bertman 2y ago
I think we're seeing another big step on the path to the deprecation of ChromeOS. Back in June this year, they were "embracing portions of the Android stack, like the Android Linux kernel and Android frameworks, as part of the foundation of ChromeOS"[0]. Now they're enabling a Linux VM on Android, which is the inverse of what they did on ChromeOS under the ArcVM moniker, i.e. running Android in a VM[1]. [0]:https://chromeos.dev/en/posts/building-a-faster-smarter-chromebook-experience-with-the-best-of-google https://chromeos.dev/en/posts/building-a-faster-smarter-chro... [1]:https://9to5google.com/2019/05/24/chrome-os-android-apps-vm/ https://9to5google.com/2019/05/24/chrome-os-android-apps-vm/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mdhb 2y ago
  I don’t actually read it this way for what it’s worth. I agree with you that they are unifying in someways for sure but I don’t read it as the death of their desktop OS for even a moment.
bradley13 2y ago
The thing is: Android is fundamentally Linux. Why should we have to run Linux in a VM (on underpowered hardware). Why not just open up Android, and bring it closer to its roots? They could start by getting rid of the need to root phones, to have full access to them: entering developer mode could give you access to something like sudo.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > Why not just open up Android ... root Security. Many people want to run critical applications on their handhelds, and the policy is to err on the side of safety. (In "better safe than sorry", that is a different kind of sorry - I spoke only yesterday with a user that got locked out of the device completely because of a small accident.)
  - summm 2y ago
    More like: Many people want to run their applications on other people's phones, without those other people having any say about what that applications do or don't. It is security, but security of the app publishers against the user.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      I guess you mean: a non rooted Android, conversely, inhibits the removal of bloatware and spyware. Yes, a proper solution covering all needs is needed. (Personally, I do not use said «critical applications» because I do not trust container, application and providers. So...)
    - izacus 2y ago
      This - enterprise app creators (more concretely, their security auditors) outright demand that the users are locked out of their devices and that the device confirms and enforces that before their app is installed. The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs).
pjmlp 2y ago
So a couple of days ago the project was cancelled,and now it is coming again? https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-android-launcher-killed-3487486/ https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-android-launcher-...
- tetrisgm 2y ago
  Schrodinger's product
- transpute 2y ago
  Change in launch target. > The code change, which hasn’t been merged yet, removes the entire Ferrochrome launcher app from AOSP. Google’s reason for removing this app is that it doesn’t plan to ship it or maintain its code. It seems that Google is shifting towards using the Linux-based Debian distro instead of Chrome OS as its testbed for AVF development.
beenBoutIT 2y ago
It'd be more interesting if Google let us run Android apps in Chrome browsers on Windows and across linux distros.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > more Well, not really - not more -, because we have mobile devices that are born with Android and installing a Desktop Linux on them would be a hassle of doubtful results, and we have Desktop Linux applications that are missed in the Android software availability... Both ways are sought: running Linux applications on Android and running Android applications on Linux and elsewhere.
- ajolly 2y ago
  I'm quite sad about the death of WSA
mg 2y ago
It sounds like this would make Android devices more useful for developers, which is a good thing. Although I am pretty happy with building what I need via web apps these days. The one thing I am missing on Android is that Chrome on Android does not yet support the File System Access API. So you can't make web applications which let the user store their data locally: https://caniuse.com/mdn-api_window_showopenfilepicker https://caniuse.com/mdn-api_window_showopenfilepicker It looks like they are working on it: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40101963 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40101963 The last commit related to this feature seems to be from from 2 days ago. I have my fingers crossed that it will be available soon.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  If you work at any standard tech company, prepare for a plethora of abuse and bot cracking on Android, just like web
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    What problem do you see this causing that can't already happen?
tetrisgm 2y ago
Whatever happens, it'll be fun to run docker images on my phone and some ddns and just see what happens
tdeck 2y ago
I'm seeing a lot of speculation about a shadowy hidden agenda in these comments, but based on my time at Google I'd say it's very possible there is no overall strategy here. The only prereq is that someone wanted to do this and was able to get buy in from their director. Would it make sense for Google to not maintain two separate OSes that both strive to support the other OS's software? Sure, maybe it would. But that hasn't stopped Google before from having multiple products that do the same thing for no good reason. And there are likely a lot of folks who have built little fiefdoms (or at least domain expertise) within ChromeOS who want to see that investment maintained. And remember, there's also fuchsia, supposedly a future replacement OS but who knows what that's going to turn into if anything. To folks who think this is a way to "kill Linux support" on Android, I don't know what to tell you. Almost nobody uses those features and they're not a threat to Google; I can't imagine anyone is thinking "how can we invest developer time to get rid of this?" and being taken seriously.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  > Almost nobody uses those features ...at the moment - as soon as we can build full mobile applications through something different than the SDK/NDK, development could surge, and the software supply with mobile environments in mind could also significantly pass through this alternative way.
  - hawski 2y ago
    As Steve Ballmer said many times repeatedly: developers, developers, developers. The platform that captures developers in the long term is on the top.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- cvalka 2y ago
  100℅
enriquto 2y ago
The very notion that google can "let" or not let you run programs on your own computer is unacceptable.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Is it any better if it's Apple or Microsoft, and it's malware stealing your data, being a part of a botnet, and infecting other users?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Yes in general (though security remains a tradeoff), but this is a completely different "let": it is "they are providing a solution that lets etc".
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    Broken keyboard, sniper?
highwaylights 2y ago
I actually really appreciate this, and if it’s like the ChromeOS version I’d be really happy with it. Ironically it’s all I’d need to make the iPad a laptop replacement for me (which is why I don’t ever see it happening in iOS. It might not even be technically possible there without partitioning the limited memory due to needing a full VM, which isn’t an issue on Android). It’s a nice solution. A sandboxed container in which you can run whatever you like in isolation from the host device with proper window forwarding. Combined with a bit more polishing on Android desktop mode this absolutely becomes a desktop replacement for most people, especially in corporate environments, so there’s a potentially large chunk of the Windows market that could be shaved off here. I work on longer contracts and would absolutely buy a Pixel-per-job if it gets me a full desktop and phone in one small package that I can keep isolated from other work.
user070223 2y ago
It's been teased for a while now see also @kdrag0n 's work; putting Virtualized linux (and windows) on Android phones https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 Old comment of mine in another thread: Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device: 1. local first (you do go to the bathroom/gas station with your phone) 2. portable 3. reduce ewaste, money spent The lack of convenience in the form of larger screen might be mitigated using smart glasses, projector(unihertz tank 3 has built in), or just connect to an external monitor Snapdragon 8 gen 3 performs like cpu from 2020 and midtier gpu from 2016 AVF might ship with android 15 as Mainline module (One need kernel 5.10+) Windows on arm is progressing (qcom snapdragon elite chipset on microsoft surface devices), qcom gunyah hypervisor, MediaTek's GenieZone hypervisor, winlator etc..
- transpute 2y ago
  Apple hardware (M2 onward) includes hardware support for the nested virtualization used by pKVM.
  - adonese 2y ago
    I hope that will allow for more "usability" for ipads. (yes, for ipad + keyboard you might as well just have macbook air, but maybe at least let's have that option)
    - ffsm8 2y ago
      The only reason why iPads aren't just as usable as laptops is entirely on Apple's decision to limit it to iPadOS/iOS If they'd just let you transition to regular macOS after connecting a screen/mode/keyboard, it'd be just as powerful as a MacBook. They already use the same CPUs and have just as much RAM
      - mdp2021 2y ago
        If their customers forgive that, they have really lured a demographic set.
rcarmo 2y ago
I’m not really keen on the terminal being a web view. Yes, there are lots of decently performing web terminals, etc. But to me it seems like an engineering failure to have to render a terminal like that.
transpute 2y ago
A set of patches under the tag “ferrochrome-dev-option” was recently submitted to AOSP ChromeOS on Android via pKVM, https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-running-on-pixel-3442496/ https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-running-on-pixel-... > Google recently demonstrated a special build of Chromium OS — code-named “ferrochrome” — running in a virtual machine on a Pixel 8. However, Chromium OS wasn’t shown running on the phone’s screen itself. Rather, it was projected to an external display, which is possible because Google recently enabled display output on its Pixel 8 series.
nubinetwork 2y ago
I'm not sure why I would want a local terminal (or a VM) on my phone... Sure, it runs Linux, but at the end of the day, it's a phone. The only thing I could find a use for it, would be to run adb to uninstall bloat without needing a computer.
- exe34 2y ago
  I run a simple python server on a directory of html files, these are generated whenever I save something in emacs on my laptop (and get synced by mgit). I sometimes use ssh to log into my laptop from another room on my phone to check something. you might not use these things, but some of us like our computers to serve us, not the other way round.
  - nubinetwork 2y ago
    > I sometimes use ssh to log into my laptop from another room on my phone to check something. While Connectbot can connect to the local terminal, using it to connect to another computer is rather trivial... > I run a simple python server on a directory of html files, these are generated whenever I save something in emacs on my laptop (and get synced by mgit). And you do that on your phone? Openly accessible to your carrier, and the rest of the internet?
    - exe34 2y ago
      it's because "opening" an html file only means it remains open for a few minutes and then the file manager gets garbage collected and if you close the web browser and reopen it, the page is not accessible. They intentionally gimp local file access, because they make money from selling cloud services. My threat model does not include nation states/carrier attacks, the information I hold is not considered illegal yet.
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  At the end of the day, it's a general purpose pocket computer with phone capabilities. But I can see that if all you ever ran on your "smartphones" was Android or iOS, then you may think about them as merely appliances.
squarefoot 2y ago
I will happily give up any Linux compatibility under Android in exchange of a unlocked bootloader.
- npteljes 2y ago
  Their own Pixel phones have unlocked bootloaders by default, in fact, it's very user friendly to put another OS on them, like Graphene. I can only recommend.
  - squarefoot 2y ago
    This. I've been using a refurbished Pixel 7 Pro with GrapheneOS for some months and couldn't be more happy, although I still prefer to do everything on the PC. I'm too used to the big screen and real keyboard; even this 12" Thinkpad is on a different planet compared to any cellphone wrt usability. Pixels are expensive however, and so many cheap old tablets could be converted to run native Linux and be reused for a lot of tasks, from IoT/home controllers to instrumentation panels, but keeping them tight closed only makes sure they're thrown away once the OS is too old to be upgraded or run new apps.
itohihiyt 2y ago
Can anyone tell me why you'd want to do this? What use case is there for running Linux apps on android beyond curiosity or just because? Personally if I need to do work that requires this I'd use a computer instead of a tablet or phone. This might just be me though since I don't do banking or shopping on my phone either as I don't like the restricted nature of the small screen. Working from a desktop or laptop is a much freer experience. Now running android app from a desktop, that is a killer feature for me!
- transpute 2y ago
  Pixel 8+ supports USB-c DisplayPort Alt mode output to desktop monitor, i.e. you can have the full desktop keyboard, mouse and video experience.
  - zb3 2y ago
    If you want to be able to access both your desktop and the android one, you can use adb with size commands + scrcpy.
- ykonstant 2y ago
  I don't have a very small laptop, but I do have a tablet with a keyboard cover. Although the keyboard is hideous, absolutely hideous (Samsung, it is also Swedish layout fml), it is still a keyboard. With termux I can do basically all local and remote tasks I need, plus I can read pdfs nicely on the tablet, take notes with the stylus etc.
- highwaylights 2y ago
  Desktop mode is the main one I can think of. Set your phone on your desk, plugin in USB-C cable, now you can run whatever "real" app you need under Linux while still only owning/maintaining/syncing a single device. DeX is pretty popular for this on Samsung devices (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8RGMF2m3fA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8RGMF2m3fA), but a native-Android desktop mode is slowly coming together.
- openrisk 2y ago
  > the restricted nature of the small screen Android is not restricted to small screens. With modern responsive UI designs one can address any screen size with a little extra effort. Ofcourse current Android apps are typically designed for small screens / touch (small screens make little sense for complex mouse or keyboard oriented UI's such as Blender or DAW's or IDE's etc.). Conceptually Android offers a convoluted way to package linux for mass-market devices (with the objective, among others, to lock-down various "dangerous" functionalities etc.). While purist hackers will cringe, if its a means for open source linux apps to reach much wider audiences thats a good thing. It depends on what other small print gets associated with it :p
dotcoma 2y ago
I’d rather be able to run a small number of Android apps on a privacy-protecting Linux phone, but I imagine Google is less interested in this…
- fsflover 2y ago
  Waydroid already exists.
zb3 2y ago
This brings us one step closer to being able to carry a portable linux desktop os in your pocket - you could then use it on any computer that has chrome installed (majority), through something similar to scrcpy but using WebUSB.. I hope one day that will be possible.
- seba_dos1 2y ago
  Why wouldn't it be possible now? I've been carrying a portable Linux desktop OS in my pocket for years. There's no WebUSB screen sharing solution that I'm aware of, but it's just a matter of writing one if that's what you wish to use.
karmakaze 2y ago
Android is weird in that it has to "let" Linux apps run on its Linux OS. Somehow Android turned Linux into Windows and we need support like WSL or somesuch to run Linux apps on it. I know that it's techically different of course, but the outcome is similar.
bubblesnort 2y ago
But... Can you run Android in an emulator in Linux in an emulator on Android?
jhallenworld 2y ago
Google News directly linked to this page (on Hacker News)- I've not seen that before.
lostemptations5 2y ago
We already have Termux, I don't get it.

178 points by politelemon 2y ago

I really hope this takes off. Android is such a nice OS, and if it could run Linux apps I would probably want to run it on my laptop too!

ghysznje 2y ago

That means we can finally let termux rest in peace?

mistaken 2y ago
This seems to run a VM rather than natively supporting linux syscalls. So termux will be more performant with its natively compiled binaries than this solution.

Permik 2y ago

They're essentially just trying to bring Android to feature parity with Chrome OS, as they're moving Chrome OS to run on top of Android in the future.

satvikpendem 2y ago
I wonder what's happening to Fuchsia, if anything at all.
- manbash 2y ago
  I do too wonder. Given the disruption of LLM everywhere, and in Google specifically, I wouldn't be surprised if the headcount was reduced in these teams as well.
- mdhb 2y ago
  Despite all of the rumors of its demise its continued to have a large number of daily commits to it the entire year so far. It’s clearly not “dead” I think medium to long term it still becomes the uber unified cross device operating system for them. Chrome is taking a dependency on Androids underlying networking stack for now and picking up the ability to essentially run it in a VM and Android itself is also picking up the ability to run Fuchsia in a VM. Fuchsia is picking up the ability to have full Linux compatibility as well via their Starnix efforts. All of the pieces are starting to come together to make that more and more seamless until presumably at some point they are ready to start calling them the same thing fundamentally. Sources https://www.androidauthority.com/microfuchsia-on-android-3457788/ https://www.androidauthority.com/microfuchsia-on-android-345... https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/starnix https://fuchsia.dev/fuchsia-src/concepts/components/v2/starn... https://blog.chromium.org/2024/06/building-faster-smarter-chromebook.html?m=1 https://blog.chromium.org/2024/06/building-faster-smarter-ch...
theanonymousone 2y ago
Yes. They are clearly moving in that direction. I hope though, that they "backport" this new core to existing devices too. Will be a disaster to make so many machines obsolete. And to ChromeOS Flex too. Definitely.
- squarefoot 2y ago
  > Will be a disaster to make so many machines obsolete. Not at all. Most Chromeboxes/books can be unlocked to install whichever OS the user wishes. I have like a half dozen of them happily running Debian, Manjaro and Alpine after unlocking and reflashing them with the firmware (Coreboot) at https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/ They're really good quality hardware, and once given a proper OS they become very reliable mini PCs.
  - theanonymousone 2y ago
    Sure. But there is a reason some people prefer ChromeOS (Flex) to other Desktop Linux.

matt3210 2y ago

Might draw me off my iPhone....

Rygian 2y ago
How do you run your linux apps on your iPhone?
- piersj225 2y ago
  ish will give you a shell https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ish-shell/id1436902243 https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/ish-shell/id1436902243 I don’t think you can run anything requiring a GUI
- benoau 2y ago
  I've heard of using UTM + https://github.com/osy/Jitterbug https://github.com/osy/Jitterbug to enable JIT.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  My interpretation: They don't.

tkubacki 2y ago

Day it will take off and be usable will be the day I leave iOS.

wiseowise 2y ago
You can count me too.
jeroenhd 2y ago
I've run Linux command line tools and GUI tools using Termux and a random X11 app. . It already works, just not with stuff requiring root permissions (no wireshark etc.). Apps like https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tech.ula do it through VNC instead. What I found to be the most limiting factor isn't the OS, but the tiny screen and the lack of good input methods. Funnily enough, Samsung ran trials where their Dex mode provided a full Linux GUI when plugged into a monitor/USB dock, but that got killed off. Now Dex is back to being an Android desktop environment again. On the plus side, Dex now also works on tablets without being docked, so I guess that was worth it for me.
transpute 2y ago
GrapheneOS + AVF/pKVM on Pixel Tablet looks promising. Hopefully the next Pixel Tablet includes an optional wired keyboard. iPad Pro had VMs in 2022, sadly removed by Apple.

tjpnz 2y ago

Presumably this would include Steam?

extraduder_ire 2y ago
I don't think that'd be very useful on an ARM based android device. But they could release an ARM version of steam eventually. Android devices with decent x86 emulation being released would be the ideal way to have that setup. Hopefully Qualcomm doesn't gate that feature to windows laptops.
- _joel 2y ago
  Alternatively, do it natively, https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/steam-likely-coming-to-arm-chips-with-support-for-hundreds-of-windows-games-valve-testing-arm64-proton-compatibility-layer https://www.tomshardware.com/video-games/pc-gaming/steam-lik...
  - tjpnz 2y ago
    Big hint about the Steam Deck 2 there.
jeroenhd 2y ago
If you want to run Windows games on Android, Winlator already does a lot of work for you (packaging Wine+Box86/Box64). My phone isn't exactly a powerhouse so the most impressive game I've been able to play with has been Oblivion so far. What doesn't help is that the ARM GPUs in most phones don't work like the GPUs on desktop. Their I/O model is different, so you can't just take desktop shaders, transpile them, and run them on mobile without losing a boatload of performance. Maybe the desktop-ish chips will work for that, but I wouldn't hold my breath at the moment.
SunlitCat 2y ago
Well there is a steam client for Android already. They could extend that to an app store and sell mobile games there too, maybe even getting developers of pc games to port their games to mobile platforms?

samoit 2y ago

I would advise against this. I have enough with google monopoly in the browser and mobile areas to add another one in the desktop market with this, plus android is not a privacy/safe environment to use. I will probably run android apps if necessary in my linux box, not the oposite.

wiseowise 2y ago
Heard that Google? Stop immediately.
- samoit 2y ago
  Its about your choice, not google's. Do not use google crap if possible
mdp2021 2y ago
Of course you use applications on some systems also according to the trust that you have towards said systems. There are still applications that could be nice to have running on Android - it is a possibility. Plus: you know, you could use Android on an airgapped device... Many of mine are.

devsda 2y ago

Apart from development, one of the main reasons someone would want to have linux on android is to work with data on your mobile like sms, camera images or interface with apps using popular or custom linux apps. Given the way Google has been restricting the utility of termux under the guise of security for the past few Android releases, I think they will keep the access to main os and it's data as minimal as possible. It is great if it is, but I don't think it will be a substitute for termux and its api any time soon. It's still better than nothing and a good thing for development purpose. Edit: typo

rerdavies 2y ago
I agree. Permissioning is going to be a huge problem, given that I rather doubt that google is going to allow anyone to "sudo".
- rfoo 2y ago
  Pretty sure Google is going to allow anyone to "sudo". ... in the Linux virtual machine.
izacus 2y ago
This is bringing the ChromeOS version of containers which are completely isolated from the outside OS - they have their own mounted storaage. You can mount in some folders to share data, but that's it. You DO have sudo though. I bet it's going to be the same here.

extraduder_ire 2y ago

The example of running android studio is a great one if that becomes easier than it currently is. (apparently you can do it via termux, if you replace the java runtime in the download) Develop/deploy on the same device would make getting into android dev much easier. Also, you have your dev tools with you wherever you are, in case you run into a bug or something while testing your app.

tdeck 2y ago
You might be interested in AIDE which has been around for ages https://www.android-ide.com/ https://www.android-ide.com/
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  When I click the "get it on Google Play" link, I get a 404. Did it die?
  - thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
    The last time I looked at it (several years ago), it had become a subscription-locked money grab. It was listed as a free app in the Play Store, but when you ran it, you could not do anything without buying a subscription. The reviews for it said it was full of dark patterns and shady stuff. Some developer blogs described how good and capable it was, but it seems that they were written before the money grab changes.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  I thought AIDE was a dead project, and that the closest available be https://androidide.com https://androidide.com

wiseowise 2y ago

Google finally doing something good with Android? Doubt it’s a consequence of recent lawsuit, but they should get sued more.

seba_dos1 2y ago
It's clearly a ChromeOS support feature. Most likely nothing that would relate to your phones.

anonzzzies 2y ago

That would be a killer feature for me; it's already close with termux etc, but that's not good enough for some things. If it could run Docker as well... Can it on chromeos? Never used Chromeos.

profsummergig 2y ago
I think in ChromeOS you can run Linux (sort of like WSL2 in Windows). I don't think one can run Linux apps directly in ChromeOS. One can run Android apps directly in ChromeOS though.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  Android on ChromeOS runs in a VM as well nowadays.
nolist_policy 2y ago
It can, on ChromeOS it's a fully featured Debian VM with seamless Wayland, VirGL and USB passtrough.
agilob 2y ago
Effortlessly hosting home assistant in a podman on my old android would be awesome.
fsflover 2y ago
My smartphone (Librem 5) already runs Linux apps, because it runs GNU/Linux.
- ruthmarx 2y ago
  How's the battery life? Can you still run Androids apps?
  - fsflover 2y ago
    The battery life is about a day, or 4-5 hours of screen time. Fortunately, the battery is replaceable without tools. Yes, Android apps in general work fine, apart from those relying on the DRM.

qwertox 2y ago

In Linux it's trivial to have long-running processes. In Android it's the opposite. So I wonder if I create a Python script which runs 24/7 and collects the sensor data, if it will get killed at will by the OS or if it just runs the 24/7 like it would on Linux.

tjoff 2y ago
My long running processes in termux runs just fine.
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Are you using an Android version before 12? See last paragraphs of https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/FAQ#Will_Termux_work_on_Android_11 https://wiki.termux.com/wiki/FAQ#Will_Termux_work_on_Android...
  - tjoff 2y ago
    Many of those paragraphs are apparent out of date. I run android 14.
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      So more recent versions of Android have fixed the issue of killing background processes (Android 12), or Termux has found a programmatic way around it? Good to know.
      - tjoff 2y ago
        My normal usecases are ssh sessions that run for weeks (months?) at a time and I run backups that takes up to an hour with rsync and have never had any issues. Not saying that there aren't usecases that will run into issues, I've just not run into it. Can't see how a python script running 24/7 collecting sensor data would have any issues. And this has worked fine for me in every single android version since forever (long before v.12 and every version after) (though there have been some teething issues right after a new version is released, most notably permissions on storage. But last versions have been without any hassle that I can remember). There apparently are issues with more than 32 phantom processes or excessive CPU and some options to turn it off but it is not something I've ever had to do. https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/en/docs/apps/processes/phantom-cached-and-empty-processes.md#internal-details-for-android-14-and-higher https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/... https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/en/docs/apps/processes/phantom-cached-and-empty-processes.md#commands-for-android-14-and-higher https://github.com/agnostic-apollo/Android-Docs/blob/master/... Maybe a problem with people trying to run a full featured linux distro with GUI support etc? Cool but never had a need. Termux environment is rich and powerful as it is.

Roark66 2y ago

It's a trap. We can already run almost all Linux apps via other solutions like termux, qpython and others. They want to kill all of it, but they can't just do it without a pr hit. So they just "pretend" to bring in crappy Linux support while removing what people actually use. You want terminal apps on that Linux? (99% of what I use) You need to connect a USB keyboard. Oh, you want X11 apps? They need to ve rebuilt with our "library" (that will probably require significant redevelopment). And so on. No, I don't trust Google neither other monopolies.

throawayonthe 2y ago
this is based on pKVM, and should bring rootful VMs on unrooted devices
- soupbowl 2y ago
  "should" We shall see.
- asimovfan 2y ago
  what does rootful mean here? I can't run wireshark on crostini (linux in chromeOS) for example.
  - throawayonthe 2y ago
    is that not because it's a VM rather than lack of privileges? you would see the virtual network interface
pjmlp 2y ago
Termux is no longer available via Play store as they refuse to acknowledge the way is via Java user space for specific official APIs.
- silisili 2y ago
  Termux is available via the Play store right now, on Android at least.

openrisk 2y ago

Obligatory joke that the year of the linux desktop may finally come as the android desktop. I wonder how usable/peformant such as setup would be. But conceivably it could incentivise more native linux app development along the lines of KDE/Qt etc. if there is larger distribution potential.

bertman 2y ago

I think we're seeing another big step on the path to the deprecation of ChromeOS. Back in June this year, they were "embracing portions of the Android stack, like the Android Linux kernel and Android frameworks, as part of the foundation of ChromeOS"[0]. Now they're enabling a Linux VM on Android, which is the inverse of what they did on ChromeOS under the ArcVM moniker, i.e. running Android in a VM[1]. [0]:https://chromeos.dev/en/posts/building-a-faster-smarter-chromebook-experience-with-the-best-of-google https://chromeos.dev/en/posts/building-a-faster-smarter-chro... [1]:https://9to5google.com/2019/05/24/chrome-os-android-apps-vm/ https://9to5google.com/2019/05/24/chrome-os-android-apps-vm/

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mdhb 2y ago
I don’t actually read it this way for what it’s worth. I agree with you that they are unifying in someways for sure but I don’t read it as the death of their desktop OS for even a moment.

bradley13 2y ago

The thing is: Android is fundamentally Linux. Why should we have to run Linux in a VM (on underpowered hardware). Why not just open up Android, and bring it closer to its roots? They could start by getting rid of the need to root phones, to have full access to them: entering developer mode could give you access to something like sudo.

mdp2021 2y ago
> Why not just open up Android ... root Security. Many people want to run critical applications on their handhelds, and the policy is to err on the side of safety. (In "better safe than sorry", that is a different kind of sorry - I spoke only yesterday with a user that got locked out of the device completely because of a small accident.)
- summm 2y ago
  More like: Many people want to run their applications on other people's phones, without those other people having any say about what that applications do or don't. It is security, but security of the app publishers against the user.
  - mdp2021 2y ago
    I guess you mean: a non rooted Android, conversely, inhibits the removal of bloatware and spyware. Yes, a proper solution covering all needs is needed. (Personally, I do not use said «critical applications» because I do not trust container, application and providers. So...)
  - izacus 2y ago
    This - enterprise app creators (more concretely, their security auditors) outright demand that the users are locked out of their devices and that the device confirms and enforces that before their app is installed. The amount of these apps and these processes is increasing and has now made it into governmental rules as well (e.g. new digital IDs).

pjmlp 2y ago

So a couple of days ago the project was cancelled,and now it is coming again? https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-android-launcher-killed-3487486/ https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-android-launcher-...

tetrisgm 2y ago
Schrodinger's product
transpute 2y ago
Change in launch target. > The code change, which hasn’t been merged yet, removes the entire Ferrochrome launcher app from AOSP. Google’s reason for removing this app is that it doesn’t plan to ship it or maintain its code. It seems that Google is shifting towards using the Linux-based Debian distro instead of Chrome OS as its testbed for AVF development.

beenBoutIT 2y ago

It'd be more interesting if Google let us run Android apps in Chrome browsers on Windows and across linux distros.

mdp2021 2y ago
> more Well, not really - not more -, because we have mobile devices that are born with Android and installing a Desktop Linux on them would be a hassle of doubtful results, and we have Desktop Linux applications that are missed in the Android software availability... Both ways are sought: running Linux applications on Android and running Android applications on Linux and elsewhere.
ajolly 2y ago
I'm quite sad about the death of WSA

mg 2y ago

It sounds like this would make Android devices more useful for developers, which is a good thing. Although I am pretty happy with building what I need via web apps these days. The one thing I am missing on Android is that Chrome on Android does not yet support the File System Access API. So you can't make web applications which let the user store their data locally: https://caniuse.com/mdn-api_window_showopenfilepicker https://caniuse.com/mdn-api_window_showopenfilepicker It looks like they are working on it: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40101963 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/40101963 The last commit related to this feature seems to be from from 2 days ago. I have my fingers crossed that it will be available soon.

hackernewds 2y ago
If you work at any standard tech company, prepare for a plethora of abuse and bot cracking on Android, just like web
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  What problem do you see this causing that can't already happen?

tetrisgm 2y ago

Whatever happens, it'll be fun to run docker images on my phone and some ddns and just see what happens

tdeck 2y ago

I'm seeing a lot of speculation about a shadowy hidden agenda in these comments, but based on my time at Google I'd say it's very possible there is no overall strategy here. The only prereq is that someone wanted to do this and was able to get buy in from their director. Would it make sense for Google to not maintain two separate OSes that both strive to support the other OS's software? Sure, maybe it would. But that hasn't stopped Google before from having multiple products that do the same thing for no good reason. And there are likely a lot of folks who have built little fiefdoms (or at least domain expertise) within ChromeOS who want to see that investment maintained. And remember, there's also fuchsia, supposedly a future replacement OS but who knows what that's going to turn into if anything. To folks who think this is a way to "kill Linux support" on Android, I don't know what to tell you. Almost nobody uses those features and they're not a threat to Google; I can't imagine anyone is thinking "how can we invest developer time to get rid of this?" and being taken seriously.

mdp2021 2y ago
> Almost nobody uses those features ...at the moment - as soon as we can build full mobile applications through something different than the SDK/NDK, development could surge, and the software supply with mobile environments in mind could also significantly pass through this alternative way.
- hawski 2y ago
  As Steve Ballmer said many times repeatedly: developers, developers, developers. The platform that captures developers in the long term is on the top.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
cvalka 2y ago
100℅

enriquto 2y ago

The very notion that google can "let" or not let you run programs on your own computer is unacceptable.

fragmede 2y ago
Is it any better if it's Apple or Microsoft, and it's malware stealing your data, being a part of a botnet, and infecting other users?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mdp2021 2y ago
Yes in general (though security remains a tradeoff), but this is a completely different "let": it is "they are providing a solution that lets etc".
- mdp2021 2y ago
  Broken keyboard, sniper?

highwaylights 2y ago

I actually really appreciate this, and if it’s like the ChromeOS version I’d be really happy with it. Ironically it’s all I’d need to make the iPad a laptop replacement for me (which is why I don’t ever see it happening in iOS. It might not even be technically possible there without partitioning the limited memory due to needing a full VM, which isn’t an issue on Android). It’s a nice solution. A sandboxed container in which you can run whatever you like in isolation from the host device with proper window forwarding. Combined with a bit more polishing on Android desktop mode this absolutely becomes a desktop replacement for most people, especially in corporate environments, so there’s a potentially large chunk of the Windows market that could be shaved off here. I work on longer contracts and would absolutely buy a Pixel-per-job if it gets me a full desktop and phone in one small package that I can keep isolated from other work.

user070223 2y ago

It's been teased for a while now see also @kdrag0n 's work; putting Virtualized linux (and windows) on Android phones https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30322035 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30328692 Old comment of mine in another thread: Our phones might be our next Desktops/Laptops/main personal computing device: 1. local first (you do go to the bathroom/gas station with your phone) 2. portable 3. reduce ewaste, money spent The lack of convenience in the form of larger screen might be mitigated using smart glasses, projector(unihertz tank 3 has built in), or just connect to an external monitor Snapdragon 8 gen 3 performs like cpu from 2020 and midtier gpu from 2016 AVF might ship with android 15 as Mainline module (One need kernel 5.10+) Windows on arm is progressing (qcom snapdragon elite chipset on microsoft surface devices), qcom gunyah hypervisor, MediaTek's GenieZone hypervisor, winlator etc..

transpute 2y ago
Apple hardware (M2 onward) includes hardware support for the nested virtualization used by pKVM.
- adonese 2y ago
  I hope that will allow for more "usability" for ipads. (yes, for ipad + keyboard you might as well just have macbook air, but maybe at least let's have that option)
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    The only reason why iPads aren't just as usable as laptops is entirely on Apple's decision to limit it to iPadOS/iOS If they'd just let you transition to regular macOS after connecting a screen/mode/keyboard, it'd be just as powerful as a MacBook. They already use the same CPUs and have just as much RAM
    - mdp2021 2y ago
      If their customers forgive that, they have really lured a demographic set.

rcarmo 2y ago

I’m not really keen on the terminal being a web view. Yes, there are lots of decently performing web terminals, etc. But to me it seems like an engineering failure to have to render a terminal like that.

transpute 2y ago

A set of patches under the tag “ferrochrome-dev-option” was recently submitted to AOSP ChromeOS on Android via pKVM, https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-running-on-pixel-3442496/ https://www.androidauthority.com/chrome-os-running-on-pixel-... > Google recently demonstrated a special build of Chromium OS — code-named “ferrochrome” — running in a virtual machine on a Pixel 8. However, Chromium OS wasn’t shown running on the phone’s screen itself. Rather, it was projected to an external display, which is possible because Google recently enabled display output on its Pixel 8 series.

nubinetwork 2y ago

I'm not sure why I would want a local terminal (or a VM) on my phone... Sure, it runs Linux, but at the end of the day, it's a phone. The only thing I could find a use for it, would be to run adb to uninstall bloat without needing a computer.

exe34 2y ago
I run a simple python server on a directory of html files, these are generated whenever I save something in emacs on my laptop (and get synced by mgit). I sometimes use ssh to log into my laptop from another room on my phone to check something. you might not use these things, but some of us like our computers to serve us, not the other way round.
- nubinetwork 2y ago
  > I sometimes use ssh to log into my laptop from another room on my phone to check something. While Connectbot can connect to the local terminal, using it to connect to another computer is rather trivial... > I run a simple python server on a directory of html files, these are generated whenever I save something in emacs on my laptop (and get synced by mgit). And you do that on your phone? Openly accessible to your carrier, and the rest of the internet?
  - exe34 2y ago
    it's because "opening" an html file only means it remains open for a few minutes and then the file manager gets garbage collected and if you close the web browser and reopen it, the page is not accessible. They intentionally gimp local file access, because they make money from selling cloud services. My threat model does not include nation states/carrier attacks, the information I hold is not considered illegal yet.
seba_dos1 2y ago
At the end of the day, it's a general purpose pocket computer with phone capabilities. But I can see that if all you ever ran on your "smartphones" was Android or iOS, then you may think about them as merely appliances.

squarefoot 2y ago

I will happily give up any Linux compatibility under Android in exchange of a unlocked bootloader.

npteljes 2y ago
Their own Pixel phones have unlocked bootloaders by default, in fact, it's very user friendly to put another OS on them, like Graphene. I can only recommend.
- squarefoot 2y ago
  This. I've been using a refurbished Pixel 7 Pro with GrapheneOS for some months and couldn't be more happy, although I still prefer to do everything on the PC. I'm too used to the big screen and real keyboard; even this 12" Thinkpad is on a different planet compared to any cellphone wrt usability. Pixels are expensive however, and so many cheap old tablets could be converted to run native Linux and be reused for a lot of tasks, from IoT/home controllers to instrumentation panels, but keeping them tight closed only makes sure they're thrown away once the OS is too old to be upgraded or run new apps.

itohihiyt 2y ago

Can anyone tell me why you'd want to do this? What use case is there for running Linux apps on android beyond curiosity or just because? Personally if I need to do work that requires this I'd use a computer instead of a tablet or phone. This might just be me though since I don't do banking or shopping on my phone either as I don't like the restricted nature of the small screen. Working from a desktop or laptop is a much freer experience. Now running android app from a desktop, that is a killer feature for me!

transpute 2y ago
Pixel 8+ supports USB-c DisplayPort Alt mode output to desktop monitor, i.e. you can have the full desktop keyboard, mouse and video experience.
- zb3 2y ago
  If you want to be able to access both your desktop and the android one, you can use adb with size commands + scrcpy.
ykonstant 2y ago
I don't have a very small laptop, but I do have a tablet with a keyboard cover. Although the keyboard is hideous, absolutely hideous (Samsung, it is also Swedish layout fml), it is still a keyboard. With termux I can do basically all local and remote tasks I need, plus I can read pdfs nicely on the tablet, take notes with the stylus etc.
highwaylights 2y ago
Desktop mode is the main one I can think of. Set your phone on your desk, plugin in USB-C cable, now you can run whatever "real" app you need under Linux while still only owning/maintaining/syncing a single device. DeX is pretty popular for this on Samsung devices (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8RGMF2m3fA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8RGMF2m3fA), but a native-Android desktop mode is slowly coming together.
openrisk 2y ago
> the restricted nature of the small screen Android is not restricted to small screens. With modern responsive UI designs one can address any screen size with a little extra effort. Ofcourse current Android apps are typically designed for small screens / touch (small screens make little sense for complex mouse or keyboard oriented UI's such as Blender or DAW's or IDE's etc.). Conceptually Android offers a convoluted way to package linux for mass-market devices (with the objective, among others, to lock-down various "dangerous" functionalities etc.). While purist hackers will cringe, if its a means for open source linux apps to reach much wider audiences thats a good thing. It depends on what other small print gets associated with it :p

dotcoma 2y ago

I’d rather be able to run a small number of Android apps on a privacy-protecting Linux phone, but I imagine Google is less interested in this…

fsflover 2y ago
Waydroid already exists.

zb3 2y ago

This brings us one step closer to being able to carry a portable linux desktop os in your pocket - you could then use it on any computer that has chrome installed (majority), through something similar to scrcpy but using WebUSB.. I hope one day that will be possible.

seba_dos1 2y ago
Why wouldn't it be possible now? I've been carrying a portable Linux desktop OS in my pocket for years. There's no WebUSB screen sharing solution that I'm aware of, but it's just a matter of writing one if that's what you wish to use.

karmakaze 2y ago

Android is weird in that it has to "let" Linux apps run on its Linux OS. Somehow Android turned Linux into Windows and we need support like WSL or somesuch to run Linux apps on it. I know that it's techically different of course, but the outcome is similar.

bubblesnort 2y ago

But... Can you run Android in an emulator in Linux in an emulator on Android?

jhallenworld 2y ago

Google News directly linked to this page (on Hacker News)- I've not seen that before.

lostemptations5 2y ago

We already have Termux, I don't get it.