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Swarm, a new agent framework by OpenAI
- mnk47 2y agoedit: They've added a cookbook article at https://cookbook.openai.com/examples/orchestrating_agents https://cookbook.openai.com/examples/orchestrating_agents It's MIT licensed.
- keeeba 2y agoThanks for linking - I know this is pedantic but one might think OpenAI’s models could make their content free of basic errors quite easily? “Conretely, let's define a routine to be a list of instructions in natural langauge (which we'll repreesnt with a system prompt), along with the tools necessary to complete them.” I count 3 in one mini paragraph. Is GPT writing this and being asked to add errors, or is GPT not worth using for their own content?
- nobrains 2y agoIt is a foreshadowing name...
- nsonha 2y agowhere is my llm-compose.yml
- nsonha 2y agohow does this compare to Autogen and LangGraph? As someone new to this space, I tried to look into the other 2 but got pretty overwhelmed. Context is making multi agents, multi steps reasoning workflows
- fkilaiwi 2y agowhat is context?
- 2024user 2y agoWhat is the challenge here? Orchestration/triage to specific assistants seems straight forward.
- llm_trw 2y agoThere isn't one. The real challenge for at scale inference is that the compute for models is too long to keep normal API connections open and you need a message passing system in place. This system also needs to be able to deliver large files for multi-modal models if it's not going to be obsolete in a year or two. I build a proof of concept using email of all things but could never get anyone to fund the real deal which could run at larger than web scale.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ItsSaturday 2y ago" It is not intended to be used in production, and therefore has no official support. (This also means we will not be reviewing PRs or issues!)" Nope this doesn't mean it at all. You decided additionaly and independent from the other statements that you do not allow collaboration at all. Which is fine the sentence is still unlogical
- antfarm 2y agoThere used to be another open-source agentframework by the same name, but it was for multi-agent simulations. For a moment I thought there was a new wave of interest in a deeper understanding of complex systems by means of modelling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_(simulation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_(simulation) https://www.santafe.edu/research/results/working-papers/the-swarm-simulation-system-a-toolkit-for-building https://www.santafe.edu/research/results/working-papers/the-...
- mnky9800n 2y agoI believe there is a new wave of interest in deeper understanding of complex systems through modelling and connecting with machine learning. I organized this conference on exploring system dynamics with AI which you can see most of the lectures here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6zSfYNSRHalAsgIjHHsttpYfxJ_XIPbt&si=4lZdAMdlJHmUulN_ https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6zSfYNSRHalAsgIjHHsttpYf... The idea was to think about it from different directions including academia, industry, and education. Nobody presented multi agent simulations but I agree with you that is a very interesting way of thinking about things. There was a talk on high dimensional systems modelled with networks but the speaker didn't want their talk published online. Anyways I'm happy to chat more about these topics. I'm obsessed with understanding complexity using ai, modelling, and other methods.
- llm_trw 2y agoAn AI conference that isn't bullshit hype? Will wonders never cease? > Nobody presented multi agent simulations but I agree with you that is a very interesting way of thinking about things. To answer your question I did build a simulation of how a multi model agent swarm - agents have different capabilities and run times - would impact the end user wait time based on arbitrary message parsing graphs. After playing with it for an afternoon I realized I was basically doing a very wasteful Markov chain enumeration algorithm and wrote one up accordingly.
- mnky9800n 2y agoYeah I already have loads of people asking when the next one is for this exact reason. Haha. Well, I would love to have people help organise the next one. But I don't know yet
- thawab 2y agoIn the example folder they used qdrant as a vector database, why not use openai’s assistants api? The idea for a vendor lock solution is to make things simpler. Is it because qdrant is faster?
- htrp 2y agoqdrant is part of the openai tech stack for their RAG solutions
- thawab 2y agoWhy use it if you can do RAG with openai's assistants api?
- jeffchuber 2y agoits not
- ac130kz 2y agoLooks kinda poorly written: not even a single async present, print debugging, deepcopy all over the place. Such a shame that there's nothing to replace Langchain with other than writing it all from the ground up yourself.
- alchemist1e9 2y agoTake a look at txtai as an alternative more flexible and more professional framework for this problem space.
- d4rkp4ttern 2y agoYou can have a look at Langroid, an agent-oriented LLM framework from CMU/UW-Madison researchers (I am the lead dev). We are seeing companies using it in production in preference to other libs mentioned here. https://github.com/langroid/langroid https://github.com/langroid/langroid Among many other things, we have a mature tools implementation, especially tools for orchestration (for addressing messages, controlling task flow, etc) and recently added XML-based tools that are especially useful when you want an LLM to return code via tools -- this is much more reliable than returning code in JSON-based tools.
- dartos 2y agoI hold no love for openai, but to be fair (and balanced) they put this right in the start of their readme. > Swarm is currently an experimental sample framework intended to explore ergonomic interfaces for multi-agent systems. It is not intended to be used in production, and therefore has no official support. (This also means we will not be reviewing PRs or issues!) It’s literally not meant to replace anything. IMO the reason there’s no langchain replacement is because everything langchain does is so darn easy to do yourself, there’s hardly a point in taking on another dependency. Though griptape.ai also exists.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- arnaudsm 2y agoOpenAI's code quality leaves to be desired, which is surprising considering how well compensated their engineers are. Their recent realtime demo had so many race conditions, function calling didn't even work, and the patch suggested by the community hasn't been merged for a week. https://github.com/openai/openai-realtime-api-beta/issues/14 https://github.com/openai/openai-realtime-api-beta/issues/14
- htrp 2y agoDoes anyone else feel like these are Google-style 20% time projects from the OpenAI team members looking to leave and trying to line up VC funding?
- exitb 2y agoDoesn’t working on a venture on company time put you at an enormous disadvantage in terms of ownership?
- johntash 2y agoNot just company time, but company resources and the company's github org. But yeah, I'd assume they have no ownership themselves unless they signed something explicit?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- siscia 2y agoI am not commenting on the specific framework, as I just skimmed the readme. But I find this approach working well overall. Moreover it is easily debuggable and testable in isolation which is one of the biggest selling point. (If anyone is building ai products feel free to hit me.)
- Quizzical4230 2y agoAnyone see the drama here: https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50 https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50
- seanhunter 2y agoI would be pretty astonished if the complainer manages to get the trademark they think they have on "swarms" enforced. People have been using the word "swarm" in connection with simulations of various kinds for as long as I have been interested in simulations (I mean I think I first heard the word swarm in connection with a simulation in relation to something done by the santa fe institute in the 80s if memory serves correctly - it's been a long time).[1] Most likely outcome is if they try to actually pursue this they lose their "trademark" and the costs drive them out of business. [1] I didn't misremember https://www.swarm.org/wiki/Swarm:Software_main_page https://www.swarm.org/wiki/Swarm:Software_main_page
- Quizzical4230 2y agoAre they trying to advertise swarm.ai? Bad press is still press XD
- sunnybeetroot 2y agoYou may be interested in seeing a reply by the creator in these comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41819866 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41819866
- seanhunter 2y agoYeah I saw it after posting my thing. So cool to have folks like that on this forum.
- thawab 2y agoThis dude has issues, the reddit post in /r/MachineLearning top comment: > Yes, basically. Delete any kyegomez link on sight. He namesquats recent papers for the clout, though the code never actually runs, much less replicates the paper results. We've had problems in /r/mlscaling with people unwittingly linking his garbage - we haven't bothered to set up an Automod rule, though. [0] https://github.com/princeton-nlp/tree-of-thought-llm/issues/17 https://github.com/princeton-nlp/tree-of-thought-llm/issues/... [1] https://x.com/ShunyuYao12/status/1663946702754021383 https://x.com/ShunyuYao12/status/1663946702754021383
- segmondy 2y agoThere's absolutely nothing new in this framework that you won't find in a dozen other agent frameworks on github.
- croes 2y agoSimulating progress.
- xrd 2y agoWhich ones do you suggest considering?
- adamdiy 2y agoone mentioned elsewhere in thread: https://github.com/crewAIInc/crewAI https://github.com/crewAIInc/crewAI
- meadhikari 2y agoI have noticed that CrewAI burns too much token for anything significant
- AIFounder 2y ago[dead]
- sebnun 2y agoI immediately thought of Docker Swarm. Naming things is one of the hardest problems in computer science.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 2y agoOr https://www.perforce.com/products/helix-swarm https://www.perforce.com/products/helix-swarm if you’re in the game dev world
- Reclaimer 2y ago[flagged]
- NicolasKixely 2y agoI wish I could say I'm surprised they didn't even attempt to hide it with a name change, but after the 'her' incident I'm not that surprised.
- thawab 2y agoHere is more context about OP: https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/15sq2v1/d_potential_scammer_on_github_stealing_work_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/15sq2v1/d_...
- warkanlock 2y agoA classic of self-promotion. So, with your own criteria, technically, we can say also you “copied?" the name, concept, style of this previous application developed by the Santa Fe Institute https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_(simulation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarm_(simulation)
- henrysg 2y agoIsn't their project called Swarm and yours called Swarms?
- codekisser 2y agoAren't you this clown? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41818961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41818961
- Technetium 2y agoThe title of this issue is: "Notorious namesquatter is threatening legal action" https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50 https://github.com/openai/swarm/issues/50
- hubraumhugo 2y agoHas anyone seen AI agents working in production at scale? It doesn't matter if you're using Swarm, langchain, or any other orchestration framework if the underlying issue is that AI agents too slow, too expensive, and too unreliable. I wrote about AI agent hype vs. reality[0] a while ago, and I don't think it has changed yet. [0] https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality https://www.kadoa.com/blog/ai-agents-hype-vs-reality
- xrd 2y agoI want hear more about this. I'm playing with langroid, crew.ai, and dspy and they all layer so many abstractions on top of a shifting LLM landscape. I can't believe anyone is really using them in the way their readme goals profess.
- d4rkp4ttern 2y agoNot you in particular, but I hear this common refrain that the "LLM landscape is shifting", but what exactly is shifting? Yes new models are constantly announced, but at the end of the day, interacting with the LLMs involves making calls to an API, and the OpenAI API (and perhaps Anthropic's variant) has become fairly established, and this API will obviously not change significantly any time soon. Given that there is (a fairly standard) API to interact with LLMs, the next question is, what abstractions and primitives help easily build applications on top of these, while giving enough flexibility for complex use cases. The features in Langroid have evolved in response to the requirements of various use-cases that arose while building applications for clients, or companies that have requested them.
- xrd 2y agoI appreciate your comment. I suppose my comment is reserved more for the documentation than the actual models in the wild? I do worry that LLM service providers won't do any better than rest API providers in versioning their backend. Even if we specify the model in the call to the API, it feels like it will silently be upgraded behind the scenes. There are so many parameters that could be adjusted to "improve" the experience for users even if the weights don't change. I prefer to use open weight models when possible. But so many agentic frameworks, like this one (to be fair, I would not expect OpenAI to offer a framework that work local first), treat the local LLM experience as second class, at best.
- kgc 2y agoI feel like there's a motivation here to generate a lot of inference demand. Having multiple o1 style agents churning tokens with each other seems like a great demand driver.
- arach 2y agoWorth noting there is an interesting multi-agent open source project named Swarms. When I saw this on X earlier I thought maybe the team had joined OpenAI but there's no connection between these projects > "Swarms: The Enterprise-Grade Production-Ready Multi-Agent Orchestration Framework" [0] https://github.com/kyegomez/swarms https://github.com/kyegomez/swarms [1] https://docs.swarms.world/en/latest/ https://docs.swarms.world/en/latest/
- sidcool 2y agoELI5 anyone?