5 ms·

When my wife and I moved in together, we had a spat about what "sell by" dates actually meant. She had been throwing away loads of perfectly good food because s

When my wife and I moved in together, we had a spat about what "sell by" dates actually meant. She had been throwing away loads of perfectly good food because she misunderstood the meaning of the sell-by date. I don't remember who taught me what they actually mean, but I was able to point her to a USDA site that showed the actual meaning. I'm pretty sure that was the only time I have ever been right when she and I disagreed about something kitchen-related, by the way. I think the ban makes sense when you consider that CA still has a provision for a "best by" date. Some more education is still necessary, though. Certain foods can go months or years past their "best by" date and still be perfectly safe - even if they might taste a little funky.

jessriedel 2y ago
> Some more education is still necessary, though. Certain foods can go months or years past their "best by" date and still be perfectly safe - even if they might taste a little funky. Aren’t safety restrictions the “use by” date? > Switching to language that either says “Best if Used By” or “Use By” will also help minimize ambiguity. The former will establish consistent wording for advising when an item is less fresh (but still okay to eat), while the latter designates food that should no longer be consumed due to safety concerns.
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  > Aren’t safety restrictions the “use by” date? Exactly - people haven't been taught to actually look at the words before the date. They just look at the date, say "oh that was yesterday" and throw stuff away. I guess I didn't make that perfectly clear in the parent comment - my wife didn't know that the difference in wording mattered, so she just ignored it.
sandworm101 2y ago
There is also much confusion about how food actually goes bad. There are some foods that absolutely should be avoided after a specific amount of time. But most will go bad somewhat randomly, mostly after but often before their sell/best by dates. Sometimes a jug of milk will be bad before it even arrives at a store. Sometimes mold will appear on fresh bread very suddenly. Food is more complicated than fixed dates. I was buying eggs recently when I, as my mother taught me, opened the case and checked to see if any had cracked. The person beside me said "I hope you are buying those" as if me touching them somehow made them unsellable. People need to learn more about food.
- moate 2y ago
  I think as a general rule, biology loathes blunt instruments. That's not to say these things aren't more useful than just guessing, but as this legislation (or rather the underlying issue that led to its passing) shows is that a lot of this stuff is very poorly understood.
- freedomben 2y ago
  Geez, that is aggravating. Do they really think that a completely unsealed cardboard box with holes in it is keeping out all the germs? Sometimes I think we've really failed ourselves regarding basic biology and education requirements.
  - riffraff 2y ago
    in Europe it's forbidden to sell washed eggs, so you're literally buying eggs covered in chicken shit, it's an interesting regulatory divergence.
    - teddyh 2y ago
      If you’re buying eggs covered in excrement, that’s on you. That’s what the law is for: for the seller and producer not being able to hide the awful conditions in which the eggs were produced. If you want clean eggs, buy clean eggs, which will then necessarily have been produced in a clean environment, more healthy for the chickens, and also with less risk of contaminated eggs.
      - WD-42 2y ago
        Exactly this. I have chickens and when I collect the eggs they are usually completely clean. Only if I start to slack on cleaning the coop or one of the chickens gets sick do the eggs get dirty. I can imagine most eggs sold in the United States would be horrifying if not washed.
        RoyalHenOil 2y ago
bigstrat2003 2y ago
My wife does the same thing, and I've been unable to convince her. Not talking perishable stuff, either - she'll throw out something like a bottle of hot sauce because it is a few months past the "best by" date. No matter how much I try to tell her that these things are shelf stable and will be good for even a year or more after the date, she doesn't believe me. I think that the show Kim's Convenience said it perfectly, myself. "See this date? It say 'best by'. After date - not best, but still pretty good."
- pseudosavant 2y ago
  My ex was like this two, but was fairly binary about it. The day before the "sell by date" = totally good, not in any way ruined. The day after = clearly dangerously unsafe food.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  Hot Sauce is kind of annoying because it lasts so long after the best by dates. Like it could just be kicking around in then fridge for a couple years and not grow anything on it, but it is probably time to toss it out eventually?
  - Waterluvian 2y ago
    Many hot sauces are so acidic they’re pretty much a preservative!
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Vinegar based hot sauces, and/or hot sauces that are very high in sodium, usually yes, but not always. Particularly if the sauce includes unstrained organic bits such as garlic or onions, or includes oils - botulism (odorless, tasteless) can be a non-zero risk. At some point, that crusty $5 bottle of hot sauce you found in the back of the fridge should just get tossed out instead of taking the risk.
      - ghaff 2y ago
noduerme 2y ago
When I first started dating my ex, I was at her place and she asked if I was hungry. I said yes, so she made me a tuna melt with mayo. As she had it in the oven I looked in the fridge. The tub of mayo was enormous and mostly empty. It was Kirkland mayonnaise. I said, "oh, you have a Costco membership?" "No," she said, "my ex used to." "The guy you broke up with 2 years ago?" I looked at the date on the mayonnaise. Expired 5 years earlier. She didn't use it very often. Not wanting to offend her, hesitantly, I ate the tuna melt. And nothing happened. It was fine.
- akira2501 2y ago
  To me that just sounds like a good way to end up in a Chubby Emu video.
- heelix 2y ago
  I had no idea that mayo expired. I had dragged a tub of mayo through several university housing locations and two apartment moves before my new bride noticed the long expired container's date as we combined refrigerators. I'm not a mayo fan, so was a condiment for guests. Whoops.
  - ffsm8 2y ago
    Anything with oil in it can get rancid. Including nuts.
- tiffanyh 2y ago
  > As she had it in the oven ... Cooking food typically kills off any bacteria.
  - xp84 2y ago
    This isn't an argument that you should turn into a 'throw away food after the best by date' person or anything, but it's important to understand one key point: Suppose you have a piece of meat out on the counter for 12 hours. Then you put it in the oven and broil the heck out of it (say the whole thing gets to 190°F and zero of the bacteria in it survive). Is it hazardous? Yes, it can be hazardous, because the compounds made by the bacteria while they were alive all day can themselves give you food poisoning even after you've sent the bacteria to a firy grave. Disclaimer/note: I have zero idea about all the various specifics such as whether you're much safer depending if the left-out meat was cooked vs raw, what types of foods are risky or unlikely to harbor harmful bacteria, or how long it is probably safe at what temperature. I have only had food poisoning like 1-2 times, but it was awful so I just try not to do anything too careless.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jessriedel 2y ago

> Some more education is still necessary, though. Certain foods can go months or years past their "best by" date and still be perfectly safe - even if they might taste a little funky. Aren’t safety restrictions the “use by” date? > Switching to language that either says “Best if Used By” or “Use By” will also help minimize ambiguity. The former will establish consistent wording for advising when an item is less fresh (but still okay to eat), while the latter designates food that should no longer be consumed due to safety concerns.

ryukoposting 2y ago
> Aren’t safety restrictions the “use by” date? Exactly - people haven't been taught to actually look at the words before the date. They just look at the date, say "oh that was yesterday" and throw stuff away. I guess I didn't make that perfectly clear in the parent comment - my wife didn't know that the difference in wording mattered, so she just ignored it.

sandworm101 2y ago

There is also much confusion about how food actually goes bad. There are some foods that absolutely should be avoided after a specific amount of time. But most will go bad somewhat randomly, mostly after but often before their sell/best by dates. Sometimes a jug of milk will be bad before it even arrives at a store. Sometimes mold will appear on fresh bread very suddenly. Food is more complicated than fixed dates. I was buying eggs recently when I, as my mother taught me, opened the case and checked to see if any had cracked. The person beside me said "I hope you are buying those" as if me touching them somehow made them unsellable. People need to learn more about food.

moate 2y ago
I think as a general rule, biology loathes blunt instruments. That's not to say these things aren't more useful than just guessing, but as this legislation (or rather the underlying issue that led to its passing) shows is that a lot of this stuff is very poorly understood.
freedomben 2y ago
Geez, that is aggravating. Do they really think that a completely unsealed cardboard box with holes in it is keeping out all the germs? Sometimes I think we've really failed ourselves regarding basic biology and education requirements.
- riffraff 2y ago
  in Europe it's forbidden to sell washed eggs, so you're literally buying eggs covered in chicken shit, it's an interesting regulatory divergence.
  - teddyh 2y ago
    If you’re buying eggs covered in excrement, that’s on you. That’s what the law is for: for the seller and producer not being able to hide the awful conditions in which the eggs were produced. If you want clean eggs, buy clean eggs, which will then necessarily have been produced in a clean environment, more healthy for the chickens, and also with less risk of contaminated eggs.
    - WD-42 2y ago
      Exactly this. I have chickens and when I collect the eggs they are usually completely clean. Only if I start to slack on cleaning the coop or one of the chickens gets sick do the eggs get dirty. I can imagine most eggs sold in the United States would be horrifying if not washed.
      - RoyalHenOil 2y ago

bigstrat2003 2y ago

My wife does the same thing, and I've been unable to convince her. Not talking perishable stuff, either - she'll throw out something like a bottle of hot sauce because it is a few months past the "best by" date. No matter how much I try to tell her that these things are shelf stable and will be good for even a year or more after the date, she doesn't believe me. I think that the show Kim's Convenience said it perfectly, myself. "See this date? It say 'best by'. After date - not best, but still pretty good."

pseudosavant 2y ago
My ex was like this two, but was fairly binary about it. The day before the "sell by date" = totally good, not in any way ruined. The day after = clearly dangerously unsafe food.
bee_rider 2y ago
Hot Sauce is kind of annoying because it lasts so long after the best by dates. Like it could just be kicking around in then fridge for a couple years and not grow anything on it, but it is probably time to toss it out eventually?
- Waterluvian 2y ago
  Many hot sauces are so acidic they’re pretty much a preservative!
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Vinegar based hot sauces, and/or hot sauces that are very high in sodium, usually yes, but not always. Particularly if the sauce includes unstrained organic bits such as garlic or onions, or includes oils - botulism (odorless, tasteless) can be a non-zero risk. At some point, that crusty $5 bottle of hot sauce you found in the back of the fridge should just get tossed out instead of taking the risk.
    - ghaff 2y ago

noduerme 2y ago

When I first started dating my ex, I was at her place and she asked if I was hungry. I said yes, so she made me a tuna melt with mayo. As she had it in the oven I looked in the fridge. The tub of mayo was enormous and mostly empty. It was Kirkland mayonnaise. I said, "oh, you have a Costco membership?" "No," she said, "my ex used to." "The guy you broke up with 2 years ago?" I looked at the date on the mayonnaise. Expired 5 years earlier. She didn't use it very often. Not wanting to offend her, hesitantly, I ate the tuna melt. And nothing happened. It was fine.

akira2501 2y ago
To me that just sounds like a good way to end up in a Chubby Emu video.
heelix 2y ago
I had no idea that mayo expired. I had dragged a tub of mayo through several university housing locations and two apartment moves before my new bride noticed the long expired container's date as we combined refrigerators. I'm not a mayo fan, so was a condiment for guests. Whoops.
- ffsm8 2y ago
  Anything with oil in it can get rancid. Including nuts.
tiffanyh 2y ago
> As she had it in the oven ... Cooking food typically kills off any bacteria.
- xp84 2y ago
  This isn't an argument that you should turn into a 'throw away food after the best by date' person or anything, but it's important to understand one key point: Suppose you have a piece of meat out on the counter for 12 hours. Then you put it in the oven and broil the heck out of it (say the whole thing gets to 190°F and zero of the bacteria in it survive). Is it hazardous? Yes, it can be hazardous, because the compounds made by the bacteria while they were alive all day can themselves give you food poisoning even after you've sent the bacteria to a firy grave. Disclaimer/note: I have zero idea about all the various specifics such as whether you're much safer depending if the left-out meat was cooked vs raw, what types of foods are risky or unlikely to harbor harmful bacteria, or how long it is probably safe at what temperature. I have only had food poisoning like 1-2 times, but it was awful so I just try not to do anything too careless.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]