4 ms·

One of the wilder long-term ideas I've had is this as a third alternative to abortion: give the baby up for adoption before they are born. Of course nobody wou

by api 2y ago

One of the wilder long-term ideas I've had is this as a third alternative to abortion: give the baby up for adoption before they are born. Of course nobody would like it and nobody would want to pay for it. The pro-choice people don't think it's necessary and the anti-abortion people would react to it in a knee-jerk aesthetic way because it's weird and artificial. (I also don't think the anti-abortion people really care about what they say they care about, but that's another matter.)

throw49sjwo1 2y ago
Some countries effectively have exactly that: There are "baby boxes" on the public facing walls of hospitals where you can put a newborn (sometimes older children too) and walk away, no questions asked. The child is assigned a name and put into social care together with other people who have no parents or other guardians.
- klipt 2y ago
  > no questions asked So what happens if one parent drops off the baby without the other parent's consent (which is technically child abduction)?
  - throw49sjwo1 2y ago
    No idea, but this all happens within a larger social framework, I'm sure it's possible to reverse it.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_Haven_Baby_Boxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_Haven_Baby_Boxes
mustyoshi 2y ago
Realistically, what will happen is once this technology becomes cheaper than a natural birth, you won't be able to have a natural pregnancy paid for by insurance. Probably through the form of "discounts" for having vasectomies or tubal litigation. We'll probably develop better extraction methods so having physical BC becomes less of a stigma because you'll still be able to get the gametes.
LtWorf 2y ago
In italy after birth you can just not recognise the kid as your own.
wingspar 2y ago
I presume you mean some new technology to transfer the fetus? As it is now, people ‘adopt’ babies before they’re born, all the time. Mother wants to give baby up for adoption. Couple is matched up with the mother and they help the mother during the pregnancy, physically, emotionally and financially. I’ve known several people involved in adoption.
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  This is the plot of the excellent movie Juno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(film)
ralfd 2y ago
I think you model Pro-Lifers incorrect. Do you know any dedicated catholics in real life? And yes, while it is a weird/artificial sci-fi tech, per definition unnatural, even people opposed seem to agree that the unborn child is innocent and did nothing wrong. Anyway, I see more cautious interest for artificial wombs by anti-abortion advocates than by pro-abortion advocates. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2579952/anti-abortion-advocates-see-promise-in-artificial-womb-technology/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2579952/anti-abortio... > “The term ‘artificial wombs’ is misleading about this technology,” Catholic policy expert Leah Libresco Sargeant told the Washington Examiner. “A [neonatial intensive care unit] incubator is already a kind of artificial womb, trying to provide some of the support the baby would have otherwise gotten from his or her mother. If we’re able to provide better support to extremely premature babies, I’m all for it.” While my feeling currently is that pro-phoicers see it as a “threat to abortion rights”, because it challenges the viability standard. That alone makes pro-lifers want to embrace it! See a typical discussion here among pro-lifers: https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/1886k8z/abortion_isnt_about_killing_anything_its_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/1886k8z/abortion_i... > Artificial wombs are the easiest way to test if someone actually views abortion as simply ending a pregnancy or ending a life. Most of the time, PC don’t want to admit they support the ending a life because it contradicts all their arguments that abortion is simply ending a pregnancy. > It’s the most pro-choice thing ever for us to give them a solution that should be a compromise between our viewpoints, and them to still whine about wanting to kill their babies instead.
- eggsome 2y ago
  I think api may have been alluding to the potential end state, where conception is performed in the lab.

by api 2y ago

throw49sjwo1 2y ago

Some countries effectively have exactly that: There are "baby boxes" on the public facing walls of hospitals where you can put a newborn (sometimes older children too) and walk away, no questions asked. The child is assigned a name and put into social care together with other people who have no parents or other guardians.

klipt 2y ago
> no questions asked So what happens if one parent drops off the baby without the other parent's consent (which is technically child abduction)?
- throw49sjwo1 2y ago
  No idea, but this all happens within a larger social framework, I'm sure it's possible to reverse it.
AStonesThrow 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_Haven_Baby_Boxes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_Haven_Baby_Boxes

mustyoshi 2y ago

Realistically, what will happen is once this technology becomes cheaper than a natural birth, you won't be able to have a natural pregnancy paid for by insurance. Probably through the form of "discounts" for having vasectomies or tubal litigation. We'll probably develop better extraction methods so having physical BC becomes less of a stigma because you'll still be able to get the gametes.

LtWorf 2y ago

In italy after birth you can just not recognise the kid as your own.

wingspar 2y ago

I presume you mean some new technology to transfer the fetus? As it is now, people ‘adopt’ babies before they’re born, all the time. Mother wants to give baby up for adoption. Couple is matched up with the mother and they help the mother during the pregnancy, physically, emotionally and financially. I’ve known several people involved in adoption.

shepherdjerred 2y ago
This is the plot of the excellent movie Juno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(film) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(film)

ralfd 2y ago

I think you model Pro-Lifers incorrect. Do you know any dedicated catholics in real life? And yes, while it is a weird/artificial sci-fi tech, per definition unnatural, even people opposed seem to agree that the unborn child is innocent and did nothing wrong. Anyway, I see more cautious interest for artificial wombs by anti-abortion advocates than by pro-abortion advocates. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2579952/anti-abortion-advocates-see-promise-in-artificial-womb-technology/ https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2579952/anti-abortio... > “The term ‘artificial wombs’ is misleading about this technology,” Catholic policy expert Leah Libresco Sargeant told the Washington Examiner. “A [neonatial intensive care unit] incubator is already a kind of artificial womb, trying to provide some of the support the baby would have otherwise gotten from his or her mother. If we’re able to provide better support to extremely premature babies, I’m all for it.” While my feeling currently is that pro-phoicers see it as a “threat to abortion rights”, because it challenges the viability standard. That alone makes pro-lifers want to embrace it! See a typical discussion here among pro-lifers: https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/1886k8z/abortion_isnt_about_killing_anything_its_about/ https://www.reddit.com/r/prolife/comments/1886k8z/abortion_i... > Artificial wombs are the easiest way to test if someone actually views abortion as simply ending a pregnancy or ending a life. Most of the time, PC don’t want to admit they support the ending a life because it contradicts all their arguments that abortion is simply ending a pregnancy. > It’s the most pro-choice thing ever for us to give them a solution that should be a compromise between our viewpoints, and them to still whine about wanting to kill their babies instead.

eggsome 2y ago
I think api may have been alluding to the potential end state, where conception is performed in the lab.