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Or maybe, the limiting factor in one's ability to create art will be... creativity rather than the technical skills necessary to make movies, draw, or pluck str

Or maybe, the limiting factor in one's ability to create art will be... creativity rather than the technical skills necessary to make movies, draw, or pluck strings.

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Nah, creativity cannot be separated from the means. "The medium is the message". It is precisely the interaction of technical skill and the mind that creates something truly wonderful.
- farts_mckensy 2y ago
  That's not exactly what McLuhan meant by that statement. "The medium is the message" refers more to how the medium itself influences the way a message is perceived by an audience. It is not an assessment of the creative process itself. It's not as though I disagree entirely with what you're saying though. There are certainly ways in which the medium is highly influential over the process of creating something. But it's a mixed bag, and technical skill is not something to be celebrated in all cases. A technically accurate painting is oftentimes quite dull and uninspired. One could argue that creativity isn't just the interaction of skill and mind, but rather the ability to think beyond the medium, to embrace accidents, imperfections, and impulsive decisions.
judge2020 2y ago
The issue is that the human performance of those things is precisely how creativity is expressed. You can tell an AI to write a story you envision but if there’s nothing unique in the presentation (or it copies the presentation from existing media to a large extent) you still end up with boring output.
ativzzz 2y ago
A lot of creativity is generated by spending countless hours sharpening > the technical skills necessary to make movies, draw, or pluck strings AI will (hopefully) be an accelerator for the people still putting in the hours. At least it is for coding
sonofhans 2y ago
Creativity isn’t magic, it’s a skill. There is no creativity without the application of it. By definition creativity produces something. Without skills it’s not possible to produce anything. The act of creating teaches you to be better at creating, in that way and in that context. This is why people with practice and expertise (e.g., professional artists, like screenwriters and musicians) can reliably create new things.
- farts_mckensy 2y ago
  I'm not sure I completely agree. In some ways, developing technical skills can drill creativity out of you and condition you to think in ways that are really quite rigid and formulaic.
- consteval 2y ago
  > Creativity isn’t magic, it’s a skill I don't agree. There's some skill, some theory, behind it. But mastering this alone is almost worthless. There's a huge overlap between creatives and mental illness, particularly bipolar disorder. It seems perfectly mentally stable people lack that edge and insight. To me, that signals there is some magic behind it. And it's magic because then it must not be rationale and it must not make sense, because the neurotypical can't see it. I think it's sort of like how you can beat professional poker players with an algorithm that's nonsensical. They're professionals so they're only looking at rationale moves; they don't consider the nonsensical.
  - spookie 2y ago
    All artists I have known have spent most of their lives practicing. Just as I have practiced programming. That's the biggest edge, commitment. To think that you _need_ to be neurodivergent to be an artist is non-sensical and stating mastering the craft itself is worthless is indicative of a lack of respect for their work. I'm baffled by this type of comment here in all honesty. Really, broaden your horizons.
    - consteval 2y ago
mattgreenrocks 2y ago
The discipline and care to get good at it are what the things that spur creativity.
adventured 2y ago
99% of humanity have very little interest in creating. They're mimics, they're fine with copying, hitting repost, et al. You see this across all social media without exception (TikTok being the most obvious mimic example, but it's the same on Reddit as well). You see it in day to day life. You see it in how people spend their time. You see it in how people spend their money. And none of this is new. The public can create vast amounts of spectacular original content right now using Dalle, MidJourney, Stable Diffusion - they have very little interest in doing so. Only a tiny fraction of the population has demonstrated that it cares what-so-ever about generative media. It's a passing curiosity for a flicker of an instant for the masses. The hilariously fantastical premise of: if we just give people massive amounts of time, they'll dedicate their brains to creativity and exploration and live exceptionally fulfilling lives - we already know that's a lie for the masses. That is not what they do at all if you give them enormous amounts of time, they sit around doing nothing much at all (and if you give them enormous amounts of money to go with it, they do really dumb things with it, mostly focused on rampant consumerism). The reason it doesn't work is because all people are not created equal, all people are not the same, all brains are not wired the same, the masses are mimics, they are unable & unwilling to originate as a prime focus (and nothing can change that).
- farts_mckensy 2y ago
  That's simply untrue. Children have a natural inclination to create art. It is slowly drilled out of them by various factors, in large part, economic pressures. One of my best friends has a natural talent for drawing. He even made a children's book. Guess what? He became a cop because being a graphic artist is too precarious. If we alleviate the pressures that cause people to become closed off to the possibility of creating art, more people will be open to it.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jancsika 2y ago
You: escape the oppressive technical limitations of scoring a piece for an orchestra through novel use of technology. Csound: To make a sine tone, we'll describe the oscillator in a textfile as if it were a musical instrument. You can think of this textfile as a blueprint for a kind of digital orchestra. Later we'll specify how to "play" this orchestra using another text file, called the score.
Fricken 2y ago
You don't need any special technical skills to write the next great American novel. Few people actually do it. Talent and dedication are as elusive as ever.

Or maybe, the limiting factor in one's ability to create art will be... creativity rather than the technical skills necessary to make movies, draw, or pluck strings.

vouaobrasil 2y ago

Nah, creativity cannot be separated from the means. "The medium is the message". It is precisely the interaction of technical skill and the mind that creates something truly wonderful.

farts_mckensy 2y ago
That's not exactly what McLuhan meant by that statement. "The medium is the message" refers more to how the medium itself influences the way a message is perceived by an audience. It is not an assessment of the creative process itself. It's not as though I disagree entirely with what you're saying though. There are certainly ways in which the medium is highly influential over the process of creating something. But it's a mixed bag, and technical skill is not something to be celebrated in all cases. A technically accurate painting is oftentimes quite dull and uninspired. One could argue that creativity isn't just the interaction of skill and mind, but rather the ability to think beyond the medium, to embrace accidents, imperfections, and impulsive decisions.

judge2020 2y ago

The issue is that the human performance of those things is precisely how creativity is expressed. You can tell an AI to write a story you envision but if there’s nothing unique in the presentation (or it copies the presentation from existing media to a large extent) you still end up with boring output.

ativzzz 2y ago

A lot of creativity is generated by spending countless hours sharpening > the technical skills necessary to make movies, draw, or pluck strings AI will (hopefully) be an accelerator for the people still putting in the hours. At least it is for coding

sonofhans 2y ago

Creativity isn’t magic, it’s a skill. There is no creativity without the application of it. By definition creativity produces something. Without skills it’s not possible to produce anything. The act of creating teaches you to be better at creating, in that way and in that context. This is why people with practice and expertise (e.g., professional artists, like screenwriters and musicians) can reliably create new things.

farts_mckensy 2y ago
I'm not sure I completely agree. In some ways, developing technical skills can drill creativity out of you and condition you to think in ways that are really quite rigid and formulaic.
consteval 2y ago
> Creativity isn’t magic, it’s a skill I don't agree. There's some skill, some theory, behind it. But mastering this alone is almost worthless. There's a huge overlap between creatives and mental illness, particularly bipolar disorder. It seems perfectly mentally stable people lack that edge and insight. To me, that signals there is some magic behind it. And it's magic because then it must not be rationale and it must not make sense, because the neurotypical can't see it. I think it's sort of like how you can beat professional poker players with an algorithm that's nonsensical. They're professionals so they're only looking at rationale moves; they don't consider the nonsensical.
- spookie 2y ago
  All artists I have known have spent most of their lives practicing. Just as I have practiced programming. That's the biggest edge, commitment. To think that you _need_ to be neurodivergent to be an artist is non-sensical and stating mastering the craft itself is worthless is indicative of a lack of respect for their work. I'm baffled by this type of comment here in all honesty. Really, broaden your horizons.
  - consteval 2y ago

mattgreenrocks 2y ago

The discipline and care to get good at it are what the things that spur creativity.

adventured 2y ago

99% of humanity have very little interest in creating. They're mimics, they're fine with copying, hitting repost, et al. You see this across all social media without exception (TikTok being the most obvious mimic example, but it's the same on Reddit as well). You see it in day to day life. You see it in how people spend their time. You see it in how people spend their money. And none of this is new. The public can create vast amounts of spectacular original content right now using Dalle, MidJourney, Stable Diffusion - they have very little interest in doing so. Only a tiny fraction of the population has demonstrated that it cares what-so-ever about generative media. It's a passing curiosity for a flicker of an instant for the masses. The hilariously fantastical premise of: if we just give people massive amounts of time, they'll dedicate their brains to creativity and exploration and live exceptionally fulfilling lives - we already know that's a lie for the masses. That is not what they do at all if you give them enormous amounts of time, they sit around doing nothing much at all (and if you give them enormous amounts of money to go with it, they do really dumb things with it, mostly focused on rampant consumerism). The reason it doesn't work is because all people are not created equal, all people are not the same, all brains are not wired the same, the masses are mimics, they are unable & unwilling to originate as a prime focus (and nothing can change that).

farts_mckensy 2y ago
That's simply untrue. Children have a natural inclination to create art. It is slowly drilled out of them by various factors, in large part, economic pressures. One of my best friends has a natural talent for drawing. He even made a children's book. Guess what? He became a cop because being a graphic artist is too precarious. If we alleviate the pressures that cause people to become closed off to the possibility of creating art, more people will be open to it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

jancsika 2y ago

You: escape the oppressive technical limitations of scoring a piece for an orchestra through novel use of technology. Csound: To make a sine tone, we'll describe the oscillator in a textfile as if it were a musical instrument. You can think of this textfile as a blueprint for a kind of digital orchestra. Later we'll specify how to "play" this orchestra using another text file, called the score.

Fricken 2y ago

You don't need any special technical skills to write the next great American novel. Few people actually do it. Talent and dedication are as elusive as ever.