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Waymo and Hyundai enter multi-year, strategic partnership
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- coffee-- 2y agoGonna miss those nice Jaguars
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoThey didn’t mention cancelling their relationship with Jaguar. I think this is just to get more scale and another car supplier?
- alephnerd 2y agoJaguar Land Rover is deprecating the I-Pace (and almost every other model) in order to concentrate on the F-Pace EV SUV along with newer greenfield EV models. JLR is also owned by India's Tata Group, and most of the upcoming EV models share components with Tata Motor's EVs (eg. Batteries, power electronics, etc). It can be treated as part of JLR's long term pivot towards the India market, where SUVs and CUVs tend to have strong PMF unlike Sedans, and I-Pace, being manufactured in Austria, is difficult to operate in for an Indian company because of the lack of EU-India FTA.
- jitl 2y agoJaguar discontinued the I-Pace model https://www.topgear.com/car-news/business/jaguar-has-stopped-building-xe-xf-and-f-type-i-pace-and-e-pace-stop-dec https://www.topgear.com/car-news/business/jaguar-has-stopped...
- ra7 2y agoJaguar has built thousands of new I-Pace vehicles for Waymo. It’s probably Waymo buying the full remaining capacity before I-Pace production is shut down. https://x.com/mike_is_typing/status/1827431086990962983 https://x.com/mike_is_typing/status/1827431086990962983
- refulgentis 2y agoWhat is it?
- Fricken 2y agoIt was 6 years ago Waymo announced it would acquire 20,000 I-pace vehicles. It's probably some amount less than 20k they'll actually be acquiring. https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/27/17165992/waymo-jaguar-i-pace-self-driving-ny-auto-show-2018 https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/27/17165992/waymo-jaguar-i-p...
- ra7 2y agoMy guess is they shelved plans for procuring all 20,000 I-Pace vehicles, but then saw 10x ride growth in a year and with tariffs looming over Zeekr vehicles, they bought out I-Pace production capacity to meet short-term demand.
- jeffbee 2y agoIt might be a little more accurate to say that the contract manufacturer which made the I-Pace also made a lot of them for Waymo.
- ra7 2y agoTrue. Magna, the contract manufacturer, is also a Waymo investor interestingly.
- xnx 2y agoI think this is a vehicle diversification/hedge workaround for their initially planned Zeekr vehicle (https://waymo.com/blog/2021/12/expanding-our-waymo-one-fleet-with/ https://waymo.com/blog/2021/12/expanding-our-waymo-one-fleet...) being subject to 100% tariffs.
- fotta 2y agoI hope they’re not getting rid of the Zeekr because as far as I know Hyundai doesn’t make any vehicles that have wheelchair ramp conversions and Waymo was planning a wheelchair accessible version of the Zeekr. If Cruise hadn’t so colossally screwed the pooch their next-gen custom vehicle was going to have an accessible version too which I was excited for because they were already testing it.
- NullHypothesist 2y agoDoesn't seem like getting rid so much as optionality... Makes a lot of sense for Waymo to partner multiple OEMs. I'd imagine, barring an outright ban, some Zeekrs will likely find their way to US streets. I'm curious if this will accelerate Waymo's expansion into international markets, as they've doubtlessly agreed to purchasing some minimum number of Zeekr vehicles. Maybe they launch in Japan, Australia, Singapore, or UAE in the next year or two to put that supply to use?? Shot in the dark, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a "Waymo Launching in Singapore" headline on here sometime before next April.
- jitl 2y agoI think these are two companies in very strong positions: - Hyundai/Genesis has some of the best cars on the market right now between the GV line and Ionic lines, and they seem to be improving faster than other manufacturers - Waymo is now the clear leader in self-driving in my mind after visiting SF recently and opting for Waymo driver over human driver 60% of the time. I have a Mercedes on a short lease now but my hope/expectation is that in 3 years Hyundai will be making my ideal car since the GV80 is so close, but I’d like to see an electric-first design from them in the space. I wish the Waymo deal meant I could buy a Waymo-equipped Hyundai myself though :-(
- kevlened 2y agoThe intent is to eventually make this available to own https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCY214KiwNs&t=1329s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCY214KiwNs&t=1329s
- dageshi 2y agoI'll be honest, I think they're just saying this so as not to spook anyone. But really I think they plan to build a massive, super convenient robot taxi service across the country and by the time their self driving tech is "ready" for sale that service will be completely ubiquitous.
- Hasu 2y agoDoes it matter if you "own" your car if it is part of the Waymo fleet, getting regular updates and communicating with the Waymo network like any other robotaxi in the fleet? You could even opt into having it give people rides while you're working or sleeping. And then Waymo can have you pay for the maintenance, insurance, and cleaning. It's like having Uber drivers who don't have to drive!
- dageshi 2y agoI think the key issue is that "owning" a car comes with a lot of expectations on behalf of existing customers. People are going to say that if they own it they should be able to mod it as they please, is that actually practical with a self driving car? What if they mod it in some way that makes it dangerous? Who's liable? There's a whole host of issues like this and most of them go away completely if you can't buy a self driving car but you can rent it per ride. Plus, if they do run it as a taxi service I think they can iterate everything from hardware, software and even infrastructure that supports it much faster than if they're selling it. I think google will be content to run a taxi service and let others sell self driving cars if and when they catch up because honestly it's a better business than outright selling cars.
- drpossum 2y agoI will never consider buying a Hyundai for several decades after their inexcusable security practices led to my insurer jacking up my insurance rates just for owning a Hyundai, despite being an earlier model.
- BossingAround 2y agoReally? I thought it was mainly KIA who had security problems. Hyundai as well? Is there a car company that's known for good security practices?
- Workaccount2 2y agoThey are the same company
- BossingAround 2y agoOh, I had no idea. So it's similar to Lexus/Toyota. TIL, thank you.
- JoelEinbinder 2y agoSeems like Hyundai own 33% of Kia, rather than it just being a brand under the same company like Lexus/Toyota. They share some things and compete on others.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoIt's a lot more complicated than that. They also have some common owners, and Kia owns parts of some Hyundai subsidiaries. Chaebol's are complicated beasts.
- bryanlarsen 2y agoHyundai and Kia were two separate companies that merged in 1998. Genesis is their premium brand, their Lexus equivalent. They claim to differentiate the three brands with: Hyundai: bold, Kia: sporty, Genesis: premium. Your guess is as good as mine what the difference between bold and sporty is.
- azinman2 2y agoI very much look forward to owning a car with the Waymo stack. Hope this comes sooner than later! Just don’t want it to be a Hyundai, but this feature would cause me to overlook everything else about the car.
- lucianbr 2y agoI don't think Waymo will sell you one. Every corporation out there is trying to move to a subscription model, even legacy car manufacturers (subscription for heated seats anyone?). Operating a robotaxi fleet is much more profitable than selling robotaxis, if they actually work well.
- keenmaster 2y agoThe nice thing about capitalism is that it doesn’t care what a company wants (in a properly functioning non-monopolistic market. I’d say that the international market for automobiles is more functional than not, despite some degree of subsidisation and tariffs). I’m sure Ford wishes it could charge you $100k for a Ford Explorer but it can’t because it’s not part of an oligopolistic centralized pricing mafia. If self-driving tech becomes cheap enough, and there’s enough demand for it, then competitive pressures will ensure that people can own self-driving cars. That being said, the same competitive forces can make using a fleet much cheaper than owning a car, and you might want a subscription to the Mercedes fleet rather than owning an autonomous mid-tier car if those things are equivalently priced and you live in a fleet-dense area.
- isx726552 2y agoSadly collusion among market leaders is rampant even though there are (poorly enforced) laws against it, so it’s not too far fetched for companies to all lock arms and say they won’t do something. It’s all too easy to get away with that, especially when there are high barriers to entry (as with cars).
- mitthrowaway2 2y agoCapitalism isn't so friendly to people who find themselves in a shrinking market segment. If competitive forces do make using a fleet much cheaper than owning a car, then individually-owned cars lose the economies of scale that keep them affordable for the middle class. The costs of supporting and distributing to private owners go way up; the risk of liabilities from private owners making unlicensed modifications to their vehicles becomes a heavy burden, and eventually privately-owned cars becomes a luxury market only available to the very top. They become impractical even for the people who own them, as homes and destinations gradually stop being built with parking lots and garages, as most vehicles drive off after dropping off their riders. Changes in the equilibrium can really shift things, and when a replacement comes into the market, it can also make things expensive that used to be cheap. For example, public payphones used to be ubiquitous; now they're rare and expensive to maintain relative to the income they bring in, and their rarity has made the remaining ones become targets for vandalism. The segment of people who would use them has shrank, and the supply of parts has decreased too, and that means that it becomes unaffordable to provide them at all. Now even if you prefer payphones, and even if your phone company would gladly provide them for you for the right price, you can no longer find a price point that makes that deal work out, merely because of the shift in preferences of a sufficient quantity of third-party individuals.
- _hark 2y agoI think self-driving technology is really cool, and I hope it reaches high-reliability as soon as possible. But I would rather it is distributed in personally-owned cars than in fleet models. Would be a shame if the only access is through effectively "renting" rides from big corporations. Rooting for Comma and Tesla to get there and put it in vehicles which individuals own. Don't want some corporation to control mobility--their use policy could be restrictive to individual freedoms.
- andrewmcwatters 2y agoComma isn't interested in anything beyond SAE Level 2, as a few engineers have spoken to their team.
- bloppe 2y agoIf you're going to buy and maintain your own car, why not just drive it yourself? A monopoly on self driving technology sounds scary, but I don't see it being actually harmful to anyone given how many ways there are to get around in cities
- wcunning 2y agoThis is an interesting move given Hyundai's position in funding Motional, who didn't seem totally incapable of creating AV tech. Does anyone know what their future looks like after this partnership?
- aramova 2y agoWell shit, now Waymos will be getting stolen by scanning the license plate for a USB thumbdrive.