14 ms·

Why my apps will soon be gone from the Google Play Store

197 points by grodriguez100 2y ago

resonious 2y ago
This is quite sad, but thankfully it is still fairly easy to just download an APK and install it. This is the primary driver keeping me away from Apple devices. I'll be very sad if Android stops supporting not-from-the-app-store APK files.
- thefounder 2y ago
  Well chances are that Apple will start accepting out of AppStore installs as well. At least in the EU so you don’t have to worry much about Google stopping apps being installed outside of google playstore
- wruza 2y ago
  Few days ago I bought a modern ceiling lamp with bluetooth control. Connected it to my iphone and that was it. My relative had an android though. No playstore option. Downloaded the apk from their site, launched it. Access to your location? Photos? File system? Wifi networks? Etc? ETC? E.T.C.? The thing is, it asks it every time you tap “connect” or “on” despite everything being disabled in settings. And of course it doesn’t work without permissions (bluetooth was on). Idk which are critical because none of them are acceptable. That’s basically my average experience with apks. When you guys celebrate wins over apple, I wonder what future will look like and something tells me I’ve already seen it.
  - chii 2y ago
    > Connected it to my iphone and that was it. either the iphone app already asked for perms and you granted it all, or they didn't try to invade your privacy in iphone land at all (since an app review might scrutinize it). But an apk might want to extract from you maximally, and there's nothing stopping them. That's why the android version is the way it is. The problem isn't android itself, but that an open system is more vulnerable to being abused. However, i still prefer that over the closed garden.
    - wruza 2y ago
      they didn't try to invade your privacy in iphone land at all (since an app review might scrutinize it). Exactly. I prefer my lights to not know my location and photos, and to not even ask for it. With the fall of apple scrutiny, almost everything will work as described above. Cause it demonstrably does when allowed. The problem isn't android itself Android could (1) disallow repeating permissions popups, (2) feed empty or arbitrary data to apks because of the nature of their “habitat”. F-droid and other non-standard firmware is incompatible with banks, other apps and hardware, so this is out of question. an open system is more vulnerable to being abused. However, i still prefer that over the closed garden. I respect your preference. In my case I should explain the situation to my relative and suggest to choose between the two approaches. But I don’t see mutual respect when reading happy celebrations about destroying the protective garden. Not a thing in our conversation, but I hear it often and dread the results, where there will be nothing to choose from.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        >I prefer my lights to not know my location and photos, and to not even ask for it. deny it then. They want location to help with voice commands. Photos are to label your light profile. If you did either on IOS, you already gave permission. If not, you miss those features. I prefer the explicit choice. better yet, Andoid can let you grant the permission for a short time then disable it on demand. >F-droid and other non-standard firmware is incompatible with banks, other apps and hardware Then make those exceptions or don't use them on your phone. This isn't rocket science. Just because there's choice doesn't mean some apps won't choose to stay stuck on google. > I don’t see mutual respect when reading happy celebrations about destroying the protective garden. because that perspecive isn't respectful in and of itself. Your garden isn't damaged, other peple are tilling new land. No one's making you go out of your garden, and if suddenly some killer app isn't in there you have a choice. You're not forever tainted from downloading another store and downloading one more app while 99% are from the App store. Put it another way: jailbreaking has been a thing since IOS was a thing, there are already homebrew and unofficial apps (e.g. emulators) that you cannot access on IOS because you are in the garden. Nothing will change from then to later except Fortnite will not be in the App store. But if you were fine without Fortnite on IOS for 7 years, you aren't suffering now.
  - oniony 2y ago
    Quite why anyone wants ceiling lights that don't just switch on and off with a switch on the wall is beyond me.
    - wruza 2y ago
      It is a LED light with dynamic color temperature, brightness, quick predefined modes (i.e. dim night light mode, evening mode, etc) and a timer.
      - NoGravitas 2y ago
        I have an LED light with those things, but it uses a simple IR remote control. No need to sign away my firstborn to use it.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        that remote conrol will be like all others. disappear until I need it least. I just needed to link a google account and permissions are minimal. nearby devices for the bluetooth/NFCand nothing else. other 5 permissions disabled. worth the convinience since I have control over what it can/'t do.
        wruza 2y ago
        My buddy has a similar story with a boiler control app. First thing the app did was sending an sms to a chinese number.
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      Remote control and automation. Remote control: While climbing into bed, I notice through the window that the lights in the garage are still on. Not a problem: I can turn them off from where I am. Automation: I get up, get around, and leave for work. Did I remember to turn the coffee machine off? The light in the kitchen? Did I remember to dial the thermostat back? I don't have to go back home and check because it doesn't matter: Those things were done for me, automatically, by virtue of leaving. Later, I get home from wherever I went for work today. It's been a long drive, and it's dark outside, and it's dark inside, and my bladder senses the proximity of a familiar toilet and starts screaming at me before I even start to open the door. By the time I set foot inside of my home, the pathway from the back door to the bathroom has become illuminated so I can get there in a hurry without tripping over a cat.
  - resonious 2y ago
    I'm not trying to comment on the average quality of apps available for Android or iPhone. I'll even agree that Apple products tend to be better than their competition for average use. It's more just a personal thing where I feel uncomfortable when I buy a general purpose computer that limits my ability to install and distribute software.
xandrius 2y ago
I'm also a solo dev and while I understand the nuisance the changes are often slow and spread out. It's annoying if you have 1 app but if you have many, it's still the same amount of work. I built a little offline, no frills app for mushroom picking for my dad's birthday and every 2/3 years I need to rebuild it with a new target API. No big deal and it keeps making me think whether it's worth it being there or not: until my dad or I go to mushroom picking then the answer will be yes.
- hu3 2y ago
  Perhaps a PWA web app would be a good fit? It allows for offline functionality and icon on home screen. Much lower maintenance too. Could even host in GitHub pages depending on requirements.
  - xandrius 2y ago
    Maybe but then you're supporting X default browsers instead of 1 platform. I'd still rather open the project, change the minSDK and rebuild than having to mess around with Samsung Browser, UC Browser from hell or else.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      Are they that different since it’s basically just chrome reskins and Firefox?
      - fakedang 2y ago
        And Firefox is 3% of the browser market, and god knows what fraction of the mobile browser market. You only need to worry about Chrome and Safari.
        xandrius 2y ago
        This depends on your user base: their age, their country, etc. If someone with a cheap Xiaomi with a weird default browser comes and tells me that they have an issue with my app/game, I can't get back to them and tell them to fck off because they are not respecting the stats. Or rather, I definitely could but I don't want to.
tekeous 2y ago
Absolutely ridiculous, to require a DUNS number when so many apps are published by a single person, often for fun or hobby.
- KomoD 2y ago
  Then you don't need a DUNS number... just like the post says: > The D-U-N-S number is only needed if your Play Store publisher account is for an organization, not an individual. Same with the requirements for public email and public phone number, these are only requirements if you are an organization
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - cynicalsecurity 2y ago
    Would you trust Google with a scan of your passport?
    - sanswork 2y ago
      More than almost any other company in the world. I trust Google to protect my data well from external and internal snooping. I don't have that faith in many companies.
      - xbmcuser 2y ago
        Yeah to me this is something people don't get about Google. Google was built around the notion that data is valuable so they do their best to keep it to themselves and not share with anyone. They do know who is who by tracking you but it is in their interest to allow their customers to utilise the data but not access it directly. Funnily enough all the actions against Google advertising business monopoly if work out would probably make privacy on the web worse in my opinion.
        sulandor 2y ago
alexey-salmin 2y ago
> And even if you don’t want to update the app, Google will eventually start hiding apps from users if the app doesn’t target some minimum API version. This means you can’t just publish an app and leave it at that; it’s several days of work per app per year to keep up with the latest rug-pulls from Google. That's something I just can't understand. If the old API is insecure or whatever, then surely the OS can put some sort of a secure emulator sandbox around old apps. You can run 35 years old NES games but not a 5 years old app? This doesn't make sense. I never particularly liked Microsoft but userspace compatibility is something they got right and Google got wrong.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  >I never particularly liked Microsoft but userspace compatibility is something they got right and Google got wrong. they both have their ups and downs. Windows 11 still has parts of the base OS that feel like they never updated from XP. and I'm sure there's a lot of legacy cruft that ultimately slows down the boot process or many low level OS management. you add a .lot of cruft to make sure you can support 30+ years of legacy software.
- lynx23 2y ago
  All the smartphone vendors do that. I have lost several iOS apps I once bought, because the developer chased to regularily update his app, which eventually killed it.
  - fsflover 2y ago
    > All the smartphone vendors do that. Except those selling GNU/Linux phones running desktop operating systems. Sent from my Librem 5.
    - stackghost 2y ago
      I don't think the Librem 5 is good enough at being a phone to be properly referred to as a phone.
eviks 2y ago
Don't understand this comparison > While [paid company ID] may be just some paperwork and a small expense, the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”. I’m fine showing an email address, but I absolutely do not want my phone number to be available to anyone on the internet. It's exactly the same, only cheaper and faster - some dumb extra cost/paperwork: get an extra phone number for this form and never use it/forward everything to voicemail, keeping your main phone private. The same goes for email, although that one would be free
- thekevan 2y ago
  I also wondered why not just use a Google voice number. I have about 3 of them out the 10 or random gmail addresses I own.
  - mikelward 2y ago
    OP is in the Netherlands. GV is US only. But yeah, good idea if you're in the US.
    - thekevan 2y ago
      I was not aware of that
- kreyenborgi 2y ago
  Can Europeans get Google Voice numbers?
  - eviks 2y ago
    Does it have to be a Google voice number?
  - londons_explore 2y ago
    no
  - sschueller 2y ago
lun4r 2y ago
You can find your DUNS number for free through Apple.
- Jnr 2y ago
  Yes, I signed up for DUNS as I was creating a developer account for Apple. If I remember correctly, a year ago it did not cost anything when going through apple systems. And I think it was before the step where you have to pay the Apple developer fee.
- sschueller 2y ago
  DUNS numbers are free, anyone charging for lookup is not DnB but a 3rd party trying to bank from it. > If your organization does not yet have a DUNS number, or no one knows it, visit the Dun & Bradstreet (D&B) website or call 1-866-705-5711 to register or search for a DUNS number. Registering for a DUNS number is free of charge, so if you encounter any organizations or websites soliciting a fee to acquire a DUNS number it is likely a scam or fraudulent. [1] https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/Documents/iepa/grants-loans/state-revolving-fund/duns-number-requirement-obtaining.pdf https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/Documents/iepa/grants-loans/st...
ramshanker 2y ago
Last I looked into publishing on App/Play Stores, the thing scarring me away most was some verbose declaration on exporting encryption from US etc. Couldn't wrap my head around it.
FerretFred 2y ago
Would F-Droid work for you? I'm installing an increasing number of apps from there and donating as well.
- bambax 2y ago
  Yes the OP should try alternative app stores. I wonder why he doesn't mention it.
  - rini17 2y ago
    He would have to implement payments. Which is another nightmare.
  - 2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
    because those options are not relevant if you intend to make some money with apps.
    - bambax 2y ago
      But he does mention webapps, which are arguably worse if your goal is to make money.
newaccount74 2y ago
It's the same thing with Apple App Store. And with 3rd party merchants like Fastspring, Mycommerce, Paddle, Paypro, etc. It's not just the EU, the US money laundering KYC rules are also pretty annoying.
p0w3n3d 2y ago
Related article: never build your castle on someone's ground https://howtomarketagame.com/2021/11/01/dont-build-your-castle-in-other-peoples-kingdoms/ https://howtomarketagame.com/2021/11/01/dont-build-your-cast... This happens so quickly: 1. you are not allowed to root your phone or your bank apps will stop working 2. you are not allowed to take the screenshot of a move/cartoon (for meme purposes) because of policy 3. you are no longer allowed to use MHL to send video to your HDMI screen (use some smart-sh* itv) etc. if someone has his new kingdom filled, they will quickly build walls, introduce taxes and start oppression — same with Spotify artists, youtube ads etc etc.
- kelseydh 2y ago
  This advice reads as easier said than done. They have the eyeballs and the distribution channel.
  - S0y 2y ago
    You're not supposed to stop using other peoples castle, You're just supposed to have a castle of your own to bring people to.
- raincole 2y ago
  That article reads almost like a comedy/parody piece, considering it is posted on a site mostly about Steam marketing strategies.
openrisk 2y ago
The digital economy is supposed to benefit from the "long tail" effect, where countless niche operators provide all sorts of diverse products that serve potentially only very small audiences. The long tail concept was conceived before the development of central gatekeepers. As this post demonstrates, frictions introduced at these choke points (for valid or invalid reasons) can demolish that long tail in an instant.
clumsysmurf 2y ago
> the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”. It's even worse: if you are an individual with paid apps, Google will publish the physical address from your merchant account to your Storefront page. You will not be able to use a PO box / UPS Store box etc.
hacsky 2y ago
I have a larger question. I know there is no answer now but i'll leave it here for posterity. Everyone seems to have a love/hate relationship with app/play stores and these stores have a stranglehold on developers. "This is our new policy. Accept it or we'll kick you out." The TOS we enter into with app/play store is fully in their favor with no rights to the developers. For android, worstcase, i can have people download the apk from my website. For iphone there's no way around.
- fsflover 2y ago
  But where is the question?
  - eviks 2y ago
    "There is no answer"
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      nor was there a question. This was just an odd comparison framed as curiosity.
miohtama 2y ago
Duns is a scam. Once I had to register my company there and they wanted to "verify" the information. They did it by randomly calling me 2 weeks later and asked if it is real and asked me to give a phone to someone next to me to confirm I am not lying.
- andimm 2y ago
  If you are like me and did not know what Duns stands for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Universal_Numbering_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Universal_Numbering_Syste...
- acka 2y ago
  IMO nothing can ever be as bad as having to deal with Broadcom's Support Portal (after finding out that this is the place you 're supposed to get VMware software). An hour fighting the account registration process because it refuses to play ball with your password manager, followed by the site insisting that you "build your profile" in order to receive the proper entitlements to download the software. Building your profile then sticks you in a loop where you have to provide a "Site ID" which is totally unneccessary and indeed not available to non-corporate users who just want to get their free for personal use copy of VMware Workstation Pro.
- silverliver 2y ago
  How would responding to a phone number, one given by the initiator himself, verify that he represents a company? Couldn't a fraudster just give them his or her a own phone number? I would have expected that the money they siphon thanks to the likes of Apple and google would be sufficient for them to verify the numbers with a reputable third-party broker.
  - miohtama 2y ago
    > Couldn't a fraudster just give them his or her a own phone number? Shh.
- mckn1ght 2y ago
  They’re basically a data broker for businesses, like Experian/Equifax/Transunion except more self-reporting based. The amount of spam I received after registering with them was so annoying.
IvanK_net 2y ago
I am the creator of a photo editor www.photopea.com, used by around 1 million people every day (of which 300,000 use Android, 150,000 use iOS). After reading this article, I am so happy that I never spent a single hour trying to publish my tool at the "mobile stores" :D
- zwnow 2y ago
  Amazing tool, use it every week! Buuuut reading the main article it just sounds like the autor didn't want to take responsibility for their games. Like it's even required by law to provide your address, email and so on in Germany if you only own a website. Continuing, it's to me very obvious to target the latest Android releases. I don't see the issue this person has.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    many obvious reasons (I'm in the US and the last thing I want to provide to the world is my phone number for MORE stupid spam. My address is absolutely out of the question, not in these times. It sounds alarmist until you get physical death threats from people that may or may not have to even do with your app). But for reference, this author is in the Neverlands and things that seem trivial for US businesses are apparently more involved over there. These small 30 euro costs aren't worth it to update some 10 year old app you'd only update if you just needed some trivial migration updates.
  - immibis 2y ago
    This is only for commercial websites.
    - zwnow 2y ago
      Sure but it's considered a commercial website pretty quickly. It's enough to recommend something to make it possibly commercial.
- ioulian 2y ago
  Can't thank you enough for photopea. Very good (and impressive) job that you've done with it! It's very useful as a frontend developer that wants to quickly edit an image!
londons_explore 2y ago
Mine too, for the same reason.
welder 2y ago
Hope author decides to open source the apps if they no longer plans to make money from them and they're going to be delisted anyway
stackghost 2y ago
>Again this is no problem for a company for whom the app is their core business, but bad news for indie and hobbyist developers who just want to make something cool, put it out there, and move on to the next project. Is it not obvious that Google does not want "indie developers who make something cool, out it out there, and move onto the next project"?
HenryBemis 2y ago
TLDR: I nag a lot, the rules change so I don't want to play any more. Why does bureaucracy happen? I don't know where the writer writes from (don't care to look it up). From experience, in the UK there are companies were you can outsource (at little cost) most of your admin stuff, and/or you can also mark them as the 'HQ' of your company, using their address instead of yours. I will go ahead and assume that everywhere in the civilized world similar companies exist. Also "is only right morally, but not legally" is very BS. These are the rules, take them or leave them. You can escalate, but not break them, otherwise if YOU pick which rules YOU want to break, then I will pick the rules that I want to break, and then it goes only downhill. DUNS: I remember when I created an app for Apple Store, they were requesting the same. I did it. It took me 10mins, nothing to see here, move on. For reference, I had my own Ltd in the UK, I was contracting and was using the same Ltd for my app, so I've actually done this. Doing business has costs. If the writer doesn't want the costs of doing business, perhaps he/she is in the wrong business (?). But "screw the rules" is not cool.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  > I don't know where the writer writes from (don't care to look it up). didn't care to read the article either but provided a dismissive TLDR. The article mentions they are from the Netherlands. >in the UK there are companies were you can outsource (at little cost) most of your admin stuff, and/or you can also mark them as the 'HQ' of your company, using their address instead of yours. for a minimimal update on an app you finished 11 years ago that probbably isn't making money? No thanks. I think it's important to remember that this isn't some active business, but a hobbyist that made something at a completely different phase of life. >DUNS: I remember when I created an app for Apple Store, they were requesting the same. I did it. It took me 10mins, nothing to see here, move on. Also in the article. Feel free to correct me since you're closer, but apparerntly the Netherlands needs to pay to find the DUNS number that was already registered to the CoC. >Doing business has costs.\ They aren't a business past adding migration updates to an old app. Yes, it is a big deal to give a private middleman your passport and let them post your address/phone number to the world. It's absurd to get on a high horse to a single dev, especially in a community that I thought valued privacy.
antman 2y ago
I am personally very happy that developers need to add a phone number and contact email. Most of the apps I use on a daily basis are Google apps looking forward to start calling them for support, thanks Google!
- KetoManx64 2y ago
  Google is a big believer in "Rules for thee but not for me"
alex_duf 2y ago
> Maybe it could be in the form of a web app. We’ll see. I think this is, (and maybe always has been) the way forward. With more and more languages being able to either compile down to js or even wasm, I feel like the bar might be a little lower than before.
Havoc 2y ago
The official document is pretty standard KYC/AML. Number for users to phone sounds like a nightmare though
sschueller 2y ago
Even if you want to comply. Google's system is broken: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thread/206281945/we-can-t-verify-your-phone-number-right-now-try-again-later-play-console?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thre... --> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41647234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41647234 I spent days trying to get my numbers verified. I tried using 3 different internet providers (init7, Swisscom, Yallo/Sunrise) and still received the 429 (Too many requests). It took me a 4th connection (cyberlink) and using my private cell phone which is now publicly visible on my Google play company profile. I still have an open case at Google Support which is over a week old with no reply. When I try to edit my number now to set my business phone number I still get 429. On a second note. DO NOT PAY for your DUNS number. DnB does not charge for this number, only 3rd parties do. Contact DnB directly and they will issue you the number or send you your current number. I am in Switzerland and I can not lookup my number online but I can fill out a form at DUNS at which point a few days later you get your number via email. I used this link: https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/duns-request.html https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/duns-request.html As for official company document. Google accepted a PDF copy my Swiss Companies registration entry in the official register which you can just download online at no cost. And as a final note. Google will re-review your apps. One of mine has now been removed from the app store and I am waiting for the appeal..: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667488
pabs3 2y ago
You could release them on F-Droid instead, or even just your personal site.
jonathanstrange 2y ago
I suspect this is another symptom of a universal slow "Myspace" death of native applications. Apple's compliance rules become more and more strict, Windows flags basically every executable as virus unless you pay for the most expensive types of signatures, and now Google is requiring all kinds of documentation including phone numbers and home addresses. Are those companies not aware that they're slowly destroying their own infrastructure? I'm planning to build a small software company but so far everyone I've asked has strongly suggested to create web applications instead. Can a solo developer publish an app for all major platforms in 2025, or is this a completely crazy idea?
- sschueller 2y ago
  The problem is that for certain things you can not get away from an app. With MySpace you could visit another website. For example I make an IoT device (https://www.stationdisplay.com/ https://www.stationdisplay.com/) that gets configured via Bluetooth LE. I can not access BLE via mobile browser because most don't support it (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetooth_API#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetoo...). Of course there are alternative methods like starting a wifi access point and having users connect to that but this makes it a lot more complicated for the end user. That results in un-happy customers and a lot of extra support costs.
  - jonathanstrange 2y ago
    I totally agree. My software is essentially a digital asset manager, though with a bit of extra functionality and project management built-in. I don't see how a web app could efficiently index millions of files on the local file system. However, based on all the horror stories I've heard, I'm seriously thinking about re-considering my approach and settling for a different, simpler web-only product. It's frustrating to think that the majority of development time is not going to be spent on the app & cool technology but rather on bureaucracy, platform distribution,integration into app stores, and setting up cross-platform CI.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  This. I built a cross platform app. You pay the yearly dev fee to apple and you can sign your apps for macos in and out of the store. MS do let you do signing for their store, but for outside distribution you need EV certs that are very expensive and a pain to manage. For a small business it's probably fine but for a solo dev it's really shit. And yeah, it flagged one version of my installer as a virus leaving me scrambling and anxious thinking my build could have been compromised and then oh no it's just based on predictive ml and it's actually fine.
andrewstuart 2y ago
Google is not interested.
silverliver 2y ago
Very much a tangent, but is it still impossible to build apps for android using 100% open source tools? I haven't jumped on the android bandwagon, but I've been thinking about developing an android app and host it on f-droid provided that I am not forced to use proprietary/NDA crap.
- gsck 2y ago
  When have you ever been required to sign an NDA to make an Android app?
  - silverliver 2y ago
    Fair point, but doesn't answer my question. Is it still impossible to practically develop apps, even basic ones, using only open source tools/libs?
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I mean, nothing in particular is stopping you. the IDE is the obvious bottleneck but someone this adamant can make VS code work. Everything else is trivial. Fork AOSP for an environment to test in, find a non-Oracle Java to build the app for (if that fails, the NDK in c++ will work, but complicate matters), figure out the buildchain to produce your APK, and upload to a store like F-Droid. Your limitations will come based on potential phone features you require. I imagine camera access or permissions may hit a few pitfalls, and I'm unsure in 2025 how easy those are to overcome (they were nearly impossible the last time I professionally developed in 2013). But Google open sources more than you'd think, so you have a lot of tools at your disposal. ------- Now, is it practical? No, not really. You're playing on hard mode and will probably fall into a lot of non/underdocumented behavior. You're gonna be a trailblazer for all sorts of issues only the largest, most ambitious companies run into (and probably fix inhouse, so good luck researching others' solutions). Monetization opportunities will be shot, and any attempts to expand platforms will have you hit brick walls as Windows/Apple OS's require non-FOSS apis. You would only be doing this either for a hell of an impressive portfolio piece, or for ideaological reasons. Otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot.
sdk77 2y ago
Mine as well. Sucks that I just went through the required updating of the build (minimum sdk) of my only app on there, a 2016 Java string art app below 2MB with no data collection, advertising or monetization whatsoever. Now they want to publish my full address too, because they believe I make money off of it, and I can't contest this in any way. Fine. I'll let them delete my account and I'll open source that app and put it on F-Droid then.
erremerre 2y ago
I imagine that is what Google wants. They don't want solo developers. They just want a company making apps. And dealing with companies is easier than with a solo developer. One could argue that a single employee company and a solo developer is the same, but again, the intention is to burden a solo developer single company, so that only small companies are the ones creating apps. If they have not gone to the route of directly banning solo developers is just to avoid the pushback.
- jonathanstrange 2y ago
  The problem is how much founding a company varies by countries. For example, I live in Portugal. Setting up a one-person company (Unipessoal LDA) is fairly cheap and easy here, but you're still required to have a certified accountant with certified accounting software. This increases the costs to around 100 €/mo minimally, just for running the company even if it has zero income. That's quite some bullshit if you just want to publish an app. But I guess Google doesn't care.
  - erremerre 2y ago
    Yes, but they don't want unipersonal companies either. They want companies with certain size, and legal department, so if any issue arises, it will be between the legal teams to resolves, rather than support.
anal_reactor 2y ago
It's a feature, not a bug. Of course Google would rather partner with five companies bringing a billion dollars than a billion indie developers bringing five dollars. From business perspective, there's no need to host all these indie apps when 99% of your users only download TikTok and Facebook. Sure, the 1% of users will get mad, but these people actually cost Google more money than they bring in, so having them mad and potentially leave the platform is a good thing. Times have changed.
daniel1969 2y ago
Open source your apps, publish them on F-Droid, or allow downloads from your website—that's what I've been doing.
miniBill 2y ago
My apps will be gone because Google wants to publish my home address for the world to see. What the hell, I'm an individual, not a company.
joshstrange 2y ago
The requirement to publish phone/email suck but can be worked around with something like Google Voice and any free or very cheap email provider. The more galling aspect is the home address. I just went through this as well and I don’t at all like my home address being available on the Play Store for my apps. Especially since my apps are local (specific to events in my city).
2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
wasn't there also something about very strict requirement with regard to having an app (that is applying for being listed in gps) being tested by a dozen or so people over something like 3 weeks?
rockskon 2y ago
Removing apps pegged to an old API version as opposed to only apps that use a no-longer-supported API call needlessly removes useful apps that don't need regular maintenance and updates.

197 points by grodriguez100 2y ago

This is quite sad, but thankfully it is still fairly easy to just download an APK and install it. This is the primary driver keeping me away from Apple devices. I'll be very sad if Android stops supporting not-from-the-app-store APK files.

thefounder 2y ago
Well chances are that Apple will start accepting out of AppStore installs as well. At least in the EU so you don’t have to worry much about Google stopping apps being installed outside of google playstore
wruza 2y ago
Few days ago I bought a modern ceiling lamp with bluetooth control. Connected it to my iphone and that was it. My relative had an android though. No playstore option. Downloaded the apk from their site, launched it. Access to your location? Photos? File system? Wifi networks? Etc? ETC? E.T.C.? The thing is, it asks it every time you tap “connect” or “on” despite everything being disabled in settings. And of course it doesn’t work without permissions (bluetooth was on). Idk which are critical because none of them are acceptable. That’s basically my average experience with apks. When you guys celebrate wins over apple, I wonder what future will look like and something tells me I’ve already seen it.
- chii 2y ago
  > Connected it to my iphone and that was it. either the iphone app already asked for perms and you granted it all, or they didn't try to invade your privacy in iphone land at all (since an app review might scrutinize it). But an apk might want to extract from you maximally, and there's nothing stopping them. That's why the android version is the way it is. The problem isn't android itself, but that an open system is more vulnerable to being abused. However, i still prefer that over the closed garden.
  - wruza 2y ago
    they didn't try to invade your privacy in iphone land at all (since an app review might scrutinize it). Exactly. I prefer my lights to not know my location and photos, and to not even ask for it. With the fall of apple scrutiny, almost everything will work as described above. Cause it demonstrably does when allowed. The problem isn't android itself Android could (1) disallow repeating permissions popups, (2) feed empty or arbitrary data to apks because of the nature of their “habitat”. F-droid and other non-standard firmware is incompatible with banks, other apps and hardware, so this is out of question. an open system is more vulnerable to being abused. However, i still prefer that over the closed garden. I respect your preference. In my case I should explain the situation to my relative and suggest to choose between the two approaches. But I don’t see mutual respect when reading happy celebrations about destroying the protective garden. Not a thing in our conversation, but I hear it often and dread the results, where there will be nothing to choose from.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      >I prefer my lights to not know my location and photos, and to not even ask for it. deny it then. They want location to help with voice commands. Photos are to label your light profile. If you did either on IOS, you already gave permission. If not, you miss those features. I prefer the explicit choice. better yet, Andoid can let you grant the permission for a short time then disable it on demand. >F-droid and other non-standard firmware is incompatible with banks, other apps and hardware Then make those exceptions or don't use them on your phone. This isn't rocket science. Just because there's choice doesn't mean some apps won't choose to stay stuck on google. > I don’t see mutual respect when reading happy celebrations about destroying the protective garden. because that perspecive isn't respectful in and of itself. Your garden isn't damaged, other peple are tilling new land. No one's making you go out of your garden, and if suddenly some killer app isn't in there you have a choice. You're not forever tainted from downloading another store and downloading one more app while 99% are from the App store. Put it another way: jailbreaking has been a thing since IOS was a thing, there are already homebrew and unofficial apps (e.g. emulators) that you cannot access on IOS because you are in the garden. Nothing will change from then to later except Fortnite will not be in the App store. But if you were fine without Fortnite on IOS for 7 years, you aren't suffering now.
- oniony 2y ago
  Quite why anyone wants ceiling lights that don't just switch on and off with a switch on the wall is beyond me.
  - wruza 2y ago
    It is a LED light with dynamic color temperature, brightness, quick predefined modes (i.e. dim night light mode, evening mode, etc) and a timer.
    - NoGravitas 2y ago
      I have an LED light with those things, but it uses a simple IR remote control. No need to sign away my firstborn to use it.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        that remote conrol will be like all others. disappear until I need it least. I just needed to link a google account and permissions are minimal. nearby devices for the bluetooth/NFCand nothing else. other 5 permissions disabled. worth the convinience since I have control over what it can/'t do.
      - wruza 2y ago
        My buddy has a similar story with a boiler control app. First thing the app did was sending an sms to a chinese number.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Remote control and automation. Remote control: While climbing into bed, I notice through the window that the lights in the garage are still on. Not a problem: I can turn them off from where I am. Automation: I get up, get around, and leave for work. Did I remember to turn the coffee machine off? The light in the kitchen? Did I remember to dial the thermostat back? I don't have to go back home and check because it doesn't matter: Those things were done for me, automatically, by virtue of leaving. Later, I get home from wherever I went for work today. It's been a long drive, and it's dark outside, and it's dark inside, and my bladder senses the proximity of a familiar toilet and starts screaming at me before I even start to open the door. By the time I set foot inside of my home, the pathway from the back door to the bathroom has become illuminated so I can get there in a hurry without tripping over a cat.
- resonious 2y ago
  I'm not trying to comment on the average quality of apps available for Android or iPhone. I'll even agree that Apple products tend to be better than their competition for average use. It's more just a personal thing where I feel uncomfortable when I buy a general purpose computer that limits my ability to install and distribute software.

xandrius 2y ago

I'm also a solo dev and while I understand the nuisance the changes are often slow and spread out. It's annoying if you have 1 app but if you have many, it's still the same amount of work. I built a little offline, no frills app for mushroom picking for my dad's birthday and every 2/3 years I need to rebuild it with a new target API. No big deal and it keeps making me think whether it's worth it being there or not: until my dad or I go to mushroom picking then the answer will be yes.

hu3 2y ago
Perhaps a PWA web app would be a good fit? It allows for offline functionality and icon on home screen. Much lower maintenance too. Could even host in GitHub pages depending on requirements.
- xandrius 2y ago
  Maybe but then you're supporting X default browsers instead of 1 platform. I'd still rather open the project, change the minSDK and rebuild than having to mess around with Samsung Browser, UC Browser from hell or else.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Are they that different since it’s basically just chrome reskins and Firefox?
    - fakedang 2y ago
      And Firefox is 3% of the browser market, and god knows what fraction of the mobile browser market. You only need to worry about Chrome and Safari.
      - xandrius 2y ago
        This depends on your user base: their age, their country, etc. If someone with a cheap Xiaomi with a weird default browser comes and tells me that they have an issue with my app/game, I can't get back to them and tell them to fck off because they are not respecting the stats. Or rather, I definitely could but I don't want to.

tekeous 2y ago

Absolutely ridiculous, to require a DUNS number when so many apps are published by a single person, often for fun or hobby.

KomoD 2y ago
Then you don't need a DUNS number... just like the post says: > The D-U-N-S number is only needed if your Play Store publisher account is for an organization, not an individual. Same with the requirements for public email and public phone number, these are only requirements if you are an organization
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cynicalsecurity 2y ago
  Would you trust Google with a scan of your passport?
  - sanswork 2y ago
    More than almost any other company in the world. I trust Google to protect my data well from external and internal snooping. I don't have that faith in many companies.
    - xbmcuser 2y ago
      Yeah to me this is something people don't get about Google. Google was built around the notion that data is valuable so they do their best to keep it to themselves and not share with anyone. They do know who is who by tracking you but it is in their interest to allow their customers to utilise the data but not access it directly. Funnily enough all the actions against Google advertising business monopoly if work out would probably make privacy on the web worse in my opinion.
      - sulandor 2y ago

alexey-salmin 2y ago

> And even if you don’t want to update the app, Google will eventually start hiding apps from users if the app doesn’t target some minimum API version. This means you can’t just publish an app and leave it at that; it’s several days of work per app per year to keep up with the latest rug-pulls from Google. That's something I just can't understand. If the old API is insecure or whatever, then surely the OS can put some sort of a secure emulator sandbox around old apps. You can run 35 years old NES games but not a 5 years old app? This doesn't make sense. I never particularly liked Microsoft but userspace compatibility is something they got right and Google got wrong.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
>I never particularly liked Microsoft but userspace compatibility is something they got right and Google got wrong. they both have their ups and downs. Windows 11 still has parts of the base OS that feel like they never updated from XP. and I'm sure there's a lot of legacy cruft that ultimately slows down the boot process or many low level OS management. you add a .lot of cruft to make sure you can support 30+ years of legacy software.
lynx23 2y ago
All the smartphone vendors do that. I have lost several iOS apps I once bought, because the developer chased to regularily update his app, which eventually killed it.
- fsflover 2y ago
  > All the smartphone vendors do that. Except those selling GNU/Linux phones running desktop operating systems. Sent from my Librem 5.
  - stackghost 2y ago
    I don't think the Librem 5 is good enough at being a phone to be properly referred to as a phone.

eviks 2y ago

Don't understand this comparison > While [paid company ID] may be just some paperwork and a small expense, the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”. I’m fine showing an email address, but I absolutely do not want my phone number to be available to anyone on the internet. It's exactly the same, only cheaper and faster - some dumb extra cost/paperwork: get an extra phone number for this form and never use it/forward everything to voicemail, keeping your main phone private. The same goes for email, although that one would be free

thekevan 2y ago
I also wondered why not just use a Google voice number. I have about 3 of them out the 10 or random gmail addresses I own.
- mikelward 2y ago
  OP is in the Netherlands. GV is US only. But yeah, good idea if you're in the US.
  - thekevan 2y ago
    I was not aware of that
kreyenborgi 2y ago
Can Europeans get Google Voice numbers?
- eviks 2y ago
  Does it have to be a Google voice number?
- londons_explore 2y ago
  no
- sschueller 2y ago

lun4r 2y ago

You can find your DUNS number for free through Apple.

Jnr 2y ago
Yes, I signed up for DUNS as I was creating a developer account for Apple. If I remember correctly, a year ago it did not cost anything when going through apple systems. And I think it was before the step where you have to pay the Apple developer fee.
sschueller 2y ago
DUNS numbers are free, anyone charging for lookup is not DnB but a 3rd party trying to bank from it. > If your organization does not yet have a DUNS number, or no one knows it, visit the Dun & Bradstreet (D&B) website or call 1-866-705-5711 to register or search for a DUNS number. Registering for a DUNS number is free of charge, so if you encounter any organizations or websites soliciting a fee to acquire a DUNS number it is likely a scam or fraudulent. [1] https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/Documents/iepa/grants-loans/state-revolving-fund/duns-number-requirement-obtaining.pdf https://www2.illinois.gov/epa/Documents/iepa/grants-loans/st...

ramshanker 2y ago

Last I looked into publishing on App/Play Stores, the thing scarring me away most was some verbose declaration on exporting encryption from US etc. Couldn't wrap my head around it.

FerretFred 2y ago

Would F-Droid work for you? I'm installing an increasing number of apps from there and donating as well.

bambax 2y ago
Yes the OP should try alternative app stores. I wonder why he doesn't mention it.
- rini17 2y ago
  He would have to implement payments. Which is another nightmare.
- 2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago
  because those options are not relevant if you intend to make some money with apps.
  - bambax 2y ago
    But he does mention webapps, which are arguably worse if your goal is to make money.

newaccount74 2y ago

It's the same thing with Apple App Store. And with 3rd party merchants like Fastspring, Mycommerce, Paddle, Paypro, etc. It's not just the EU, the US money laundering KYC rules are also pretty annoying.

p0w3n3d 2y ago

Related article: never build your castle on someone's ground https://howtomarketagame.com/2021/11/01/dont-build-your-castle-in-other-peoples-kingdoms/ https://howtomarketagame.com/2021/11/01/dont-build-your-cast... This happens so quickly: 1. you are not allowed to root your phone or your bank apps will stop working 2. you are not allowed to take the screenshot of a move/cartoon (for meme purposes) because of policy 3. you are no longer allowed to use MHL to send video to your HDMI screen (use some smart-sh* itv) etc. if someone has his new kingdom filled, they will quickly build walls, introduce taxes and start oppression — same with Spotify artists, youtube ads etc etc.

kelseydh 2y ago
This advice reads as easier said than done. They have the eyeballs and the distribution channel.
- S0y 2y ago
  You're not supposed to stop using other peoples castle, You're just supposed to have a castle of your own to bring people to.
raincole 2y ago
That article reads almost like a comedy/parody piece, considering it is posted on a site mostly about Steam marketing strategies.

openrisk 2y ago

The digital economy is supposed to benefit from the "long tail" effect, where countless niche operators provide all sorts of diverse products that serve potentially only very small audiences. The long tail concept was conceived before the development of central gatekeepers. As this post demonstrates, frictions introduced at these choke points (for valid or invalid reasons) can demolish that long tail in an instant.

clumsysmurf 2y ago

> the next requirement is more insidious: “a phone number and email address for Google Play users to contact you”. It's even worse: if you are an individual with paid apps, Google will publish the physical address from your merchant account to your Storefront page. You will not be able to use a PO box / UPS Store box etc.

hacsky 2y ago

I have a larger question. I know there is no answer now but i'll leave it here for posterity. Everyone seems to have a love/hate relationship with app/play stores and these stores have a stranglehold on developers. "This is our new policy. Accept it or we'll kick you out." The TOS we enter into with app/play store is fully in their favor with no rights to the developers. For android, worstcase, i can have people download the apk from my website. For iphone there's no way around.

fsflover 2y ago
But where is the question?
- eviks 2y ago
  "There is no answer"
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    nor was there a question. This was just an odd comparison framed as curiosity.

miohtama 2y ago

Duns is a scam. Once I had to register my company there and they wanted to "verify" the information. They did it by randomly calling me 2 weeks later and asked if it is real and asked me to give a phone to someone next to me to confirm I am not lying.

andimm 2y ago
If you are like me and did not know what Duns stands for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Universal_Numbering_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Universal_Numbering_Syste...
acka 2y ago
IMO nothing can ever be as bad as having to deal with Broadcom's Support Portal (after finding out that this is the place you 're supposed to get VMware software). An hour fighting the account registration process because it refuses to play ball with your password manager, followed by the site insisting that you "build your profile" in order to receive the proper entitlements to download the software. Building your profile then sticks you in a loop where you have to provide a "Site ID" which is totally unneccessary and indeed not available to non-corporate users who just want to get their free for personal use copy of VMware Workstation Pro.
silverliver 2y ago
How would responding to a phone number, one given by the initiator himself, verify that he represents a company? Couldn't a fraudster just give them his or her a own phone number? I would have expected that the money they siphon thanks to the likes of Apple and google would be sufficient for them to verify the numbers with a reputable third-party broker.
- miohtama 2y ago
  > Couldn't a fraudster just give them his or her a own phone number? Shh.
mckn1ght 2y ago
They’re basically a data broker for businesses, like Experian/Equifax/Transunion except more self-reporting based. The amount of spam I received after registering with them was so annoying.

IvanK_net 2y ago

I am the creator of a photo editor www.photopea.com, used by around 1 million people every day (of which 300,000 use Android, 150,000 use iOS). After reading this article, I am so happy that I never spent a single hour trying to publish my tool at the "mobile stores" :D

zwnow 2y ago
Amazing tool, use it every week! Buuuut reading the main article it just sounds like the autor didn't want to take responsibility for their games. Like it's even required by law to provide your address, email and so on in Germany if you only own a website. Continuing, it's to me very obvious to target the latest Android releases. I don't see the issue this person has.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  many obvious reasons (I'm in the US and the last thing I want to provide to the world is my phone number for MORE stupid spam. My address is absolutely out of the question, not in these times. It sounds alarmist until you get physical death threats from people that may or may not have to even do with your app). But for reference, this author is in the Neverlands and things that seem trivial for US businesses are apparently more involved over there. These small 30 euro costs aren't worth it to update some 10 year old app you'd only update if you just needed some trivial migration updates.
- immibis 2y ago
  This is only for commercial websites.
  - zwnow 2y ago
    Sure but it's considered a commercial website pretty quickly. It's enough to recommend something to make it possibly commercial.
ioulian 2y ago
Can't thank you enough for photopea. Very good (and impressive) job that you've done with it! It's very useful as a frontend developer that wants to quickly edit an image!

londons_explore 2y ago

Mine too, for the same reason.

welder 2y ago

Hope author decides to open source the apps if they no longer plans to make money from them and they're going to be delisted anyway

stackghost 2y ago

>Again this is no problem for a company for whom the app is their core business, but bad news for indie and hobbyist developers who just want to make something cool, put it out there, and move on to the next project. Is it not obvious that Google does not want "indie developers who make something cool, out it out there, and move onto the next project"?

HenryBemis 2y ago

TLDR: I nag a lot, the rules change so I don't want to play any more. Why does bureaucracy happen? I don't know where the writer writes from (don't care to look it up). From experience, in the UK there are companies were you can outsource (at little cost) most of your admin stuff, and/or you can also mark them as the 'HQ' of your company, using their address instead of yours. I will go ahead and assume that everywhere in the civilized world similar companies exist. Also "is only right morally, but not legally" is very BS. These are the rules, take them or leave them. You can escalate, but not break them, otherwise if YOU pick which rules YOU want to break, then I will pick the rules that I want to break, and then it goes only downhill. DUNS: I remember when I created an app for Apple Store, they were requesting the same. I did it. It took me 10mins, nothing to see here, move on. For reference, I had my own Ltd in the UK, I was contracting and was using the same Ltd for my app, so I've actually done this. Doing business has costs. If the writer doesn't want the costs of doing business, perhaps he/she is in the wrong business (?). But "screw the rules" is not cool.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
> I don't know where the writer writes from (don't care to look it up). didn't care to read the article either but provided a dismissive TLDR. The article mentions they are from the Netherlands. >in the UK there are companies were you can outsource (at little cost) most of your admin stuff, and/or you can also mark them as the 'HQ' of your company, using their address instead of yours. for a minimimal update on an app you finished 11 years ago that probbably isn't making money? No thanks. I think it's important to remember that this isn't some active business, but a hobbyist that made something at a completely different phase of life. >DUNS: I remember when I created an app for Apple Store, they were requesting the same. I did it. It took me 10mins, nothing to see here, move on. Also in the article. Feel free to correct me since you're closer, but apparerntly the Netherlands needs to pay to find the DUNS number that was already registered to the CoC. >Doing business has costs.\ They aren't a business past adding migration updates to an old app. Yes, it is a big deal to give a private middleman your passport and let them post your address/phone number to the world. It's absurd to get on a high horse to a single dev, especially in a community that I thought valued privacy.

antman 2y ago

I am personally very happy that developers need to add a phone number and contact email. Most of the apps I use on a daily basis are Google apps looking forward to start calling them for support, thanks Google!

KetoManx64 2y ago
Google is a big believer in "Rules for thee but not for me"

alex_duf 2y ago

> Maybe it could be in the form of a web app. We’ll see. I think this is, (and maybe always has been) the way forward. With more and more languages being able to either compile down to js or even wasm, I feel like the bar might be a little lower than before.

Havoc 2y ago

The official document is pretty standard KYC/AML. Number for users to phone sounds like a nightmare though

sschueller 2y ago

Even if you want to comply. Google's system is broken: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thread/206281945/we-can-t-verify-your-phone-number-right-now-try-again-later-play-console?hl=en https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/thre... --> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41647234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41647234 I spent days trying to get my numbers verified. I tried using 3 different internet providers (init7, Swisscom, Yallo/Sunrise) and still received the 429 (Too many requests). It took me a 4th connection (cyberlink) and using my private cell phone which is now publicly visible on my Google play company profile. I still have an open case at Google Support which is over a week old with no reply. When I try to edit my number now to set my business phone number I still get 429. On a second note. DO NOT PAY for your DUNS number. DnB does not charge for this number, only 3rd parties do. Contact DnB directly and they will issue you the number or send you your current number. I am in Switzerland and I can not lookup my number online but I can fill out a form at DUNS at which point a few days later you get your number via email. I used this link: https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/duns-request.html https://www.dnb.com/en-ch/duns-request.html As for official company document. Google accepted a PDF copy my Swiss Companies registration entry in the official register which you can just download online at no cost. And as a final note. Google will re-review your apps. One of mine has now been removed from the app store and I am waiting for the appeal..: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41667488

pabs3 2y ago

You could release them on F-Droid instead, or even just your personal site.

jonathanstrange 2y ago

I suspect this is another symptom of a universal slow "Myspace" death of native applications. Apple's compliance rules become more and more strict, Windows flags basically every executable as virus unless you pay for the most expensive types of signatures, and now Google is requiring all kinds of documentation including phone numbers and home addresses. Are those companies not aware that they're slowly destroying their own infrastructure? I'm planning to build a small software company but so far everyone I've asked has strongly suggested to create web applications instead. Can a solo developer publish an app for all major platforms in 2025, or is this a completely crazy idea?

sschueller 2y ago
The problem is that for certain things you can not get away from an app. With MySpace you could visit another website. For example I make an IoT device (https://www.stationdisplay.com/ https://www.stationdisplay.com/) that gets configured via Bluetooth LE. I can not access BLE via mobile browser because most don't support it (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetooth_API#browser_compatibility https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Web_Bluetoo...). Of course there are alternative methods like starting a wifi access point and having users connect to that but this makes it a lot more complicated for the end user. That results in un-happy customers and a lot of extra support costs.
- jonathanstrange 2y ago
  I totally agree. My software is essentially a digital asset manager, though with a bit of extra functionality and project management built-in. I don't see how a web app could efficiently index millions of files on the local file system. However, based on all the horror stories I've heard, I'm seriously thinking about re-considering my approach and settling for a different, simpler web-only product. It's frustrating to think that the majority of development time is not going to be spent on the app & cool technology but rather on bureaucracy, platform distribution,integration into app stores, and setting up cross-platform CI.
jemmyw 2y ago
This. I built a cross platform app. You pay the yearly dev fee to apple and you can sign your apps for macos in and out of the store. MS do let you do signing for their store, but for outside distribution you need EV certs that are very expensive and a pain to manage. For a small business it's probably fine but for a solo dev it's really shit. And yeah, it flagged one version of my installer as a virus leaving me scrambling and anxious thinking my build could have been compromised and then oh no it's just based on predictive ml and it's actually fine.

andrewstuart 2y ago

Google is not interested.

silverliver 2y ago

Very much a tangent, but is it still impossible to build apps for android using 100% open source tools? I haven't jumped on the android bandwagon, but I've been thinking about developing an android app and host it on f-droid provided that I am not forced to use proprietary/NDA crap.

gsck 2y ago
When have you ever been required to sign an NDA to make an Android app?
- silverliver 2y ago
  Fair point, but doesn't answer my question. Is it still impossible to practically develop apps, even basic ones, using only open source tools/libs?
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I mean, nothing in particular is stopping you. the IDE is the obvious bottleneck but someone this adamant can make VS code work. Everything else is trivial. Fork AOSP for an environment to test in, find a non-Oracle Java to build the app for (if that fails, the NDK in c++ will work, but complicate matters), figure out the buildchain to produce your APK, and upload to a store like F-Droid. Your limitations will come based on potential phone features you require. I imagine camera access or permissions may hit a few pitfalls, and I'm unsure in 2025 how easy those are to overcome (they were nearly impossible the last time I professionally developed in 2013). But Google open sources more than you'd think, so you have a lot of tools at your disposal. ------- Now, is it practical? No, not really. You're playing on hard mode and will probably fall into a lot of non/underdocumented behavior. You're gonna be a trailblazer for all sorts of issues only the largest, most ambitious companies run into (and probably fix inhouse, so good luck researching others' solutions). Monetization opportunities will be shot, and any attempts to expand platforms will have you hit brick walls as Windows/Apple OS's require non-FOSS apis. You would only be doing this either for a hell of an impressive portfolio piece, or for ideaological reasons. Otherwise you're shooting yourself in the foot.

sdk77 2y ago

Mine as well. Sucks that I just went through the required updating of the build (minimum sdk) of my only app on there, a 2016 Java string art app below 2MB with no data collection, advertising or monetization whatsoever. Now they want to publish my full address too, because they believe I make money off of it, and I can't contest this in any way. Fine. I'll let them delete my account and I'll open source that app and put it on F-Droid then.

erremerre 2y ago

I imagine that is what Google wants. They don't want solo developers. They just want a company making apps. And dealing with companies is easier than with a solo developer. One could argue that a single employee company and a solo developer is the same, but again, the intention is to burden a solo developer single company, so that only small companies are the ones creating apps. If they have not gone to the route of directly banning solo developers is just to avoid the pushback.

jonathanstrange 2y ago
The problem is how much founding a company varies by countries. For example, I live in Portugal. Setting up a one-person company (Unipessoal LDA) is fairly cheap and easy here, but you're still required to have a certified accountant with certified accounting software. This increases the costs to around 100 €/mo minimally, just for running the company even if it has zero income. That's quite some bullshit if you just want to publish an app. But I guess Google doesn't care.
- erremerre 2y ago
  Yes, but they don't want unipersonal companies either. They want companies with certain size, and legal department, so if any issue arises, it will be between the legal teams to resolves, rather than support.

anal_reactor 2y ago

It's a feature, not a bug. Of course Google would rather partner with five companies bringing a billion dollars than a billion indie developers bringing five dollars. From business perspective, there's no need to host all these indie apps when 99% of your users only download TikTok and Facebook. Sure, the 1% of users will get mad, but these people actually cost Google more money than they bring in, so having them mad and potentially leave the platform is a good thing. Times have changed.

daniel1969 2y ago

Open source your apps, publish them on F-Droid, or allow downloads from your website—that's what I've been doing.

miniBill 2y ago

My apps will be gone because Google wants to publish my home address for the world to see. What the hell, I'm an individual, not a company.

joshstrange 2y ago

The requirement to publish phone/email suck but can be worked around with something like Google Voice and any free or very cheap email provider. The more galling aspect is the home address. I just went through this as well and I don’t at all like my home address being available on the Play Store for my apps. Especially since my apps are local (specific to events in my city).

2-3-7-43-1807 2y ago

wasn't there also something about very strict requirement with regard to having an app (that is applying for being listed in gps) being tested by a dozen or so people over something like 3 weeks?

rockskon 2y ago

Removing apps pegged to an old API version as opposed to only apps that use a no-longer-supported API call needlessly removes useful apps that don't need regular maintenance and updates.