5 ms·

It seems like getting projectors to run is really the hardest problem in computer science.

by trustno2 2y ago

Maken 2y ago
Harder than getting printers to print?
- mschuster91 2y ago
  At least printers give you some sort of error message. EDID negotiation or signal integrity issues in HDMI, good luck diagnosing actual causes without highly specialized (and expensive...) equipment.
  - npongratz 2y ago
    > At least printers give you some sort of error message. Inscrutable, and infamous, though they may be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER
- trustno2 2y ago
  Hey that's what we get CUPS auto-discovery for.
  - Propelloni 2y ago
    Good one!
- high_na_euv 2y ago
  It is unreal how tech as mature as printers is so fucking unreliable
  - makeitdouble 2y ago
    Arguably it still hasn't matured yet. Or at least it's nowhere near to be a solved problem and we'll probably sidestep it before ever coming up with a real solution. I'd put it in the same bucket as TODO lists. After centuries we're still not set.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    Depends on the printer. I still remember the LaserJet 4000 series with great fondness. They were absolute tanks that almost never broke. You did have to replace wear items like rollers, but that was it.
- eka1 2y ago
  Typically, you aren't trying to print in front of a large audience
netsharc 2y ago
Meanwhile, "this scratchy audio is fine!". I guess it's something one can throw AI at. It probably doesn't need GPUs, just some audio filters.
jimbokun 2y ago
I've been in Computer Science graduate courses and lectures in one of the top programs in the US where it seemed like every week the first 5 to 10 minutes was spent trying to get the projector to work with the lecturers laptop.
- mlyle 2y ago
  I just have a ChromeCast in each room that I lecture in. Easy to bounce a tab over to the big screen, and it turns on the TV/projector. It also helps prevent notification or other screen sharing related mishaps. My biggest complaints about this approach are that I can't easily see speaker notes (I have a fiddly workaround that I can use if I need it, but it would be nice if Google Slides would support the ChromeCast use case a little better..) and that the TVs/projectors tend to screw around for 10-15 seconds before automatically choosing the right source.
  - dvngnt_ 2y ago
    would phone work?
    - mlyle 2y ago
      I know I can open other tabs to look at the presentation, so I assume it would. But it's not good optics for me to have a phone out when I ask my students not to do so. I can get a speaker notes and a normal presentation tab open and cast one of them, but they all jump around and do the wrong thing on my screen (wanting to maximize, etc) and require a lot of coercion; too much time to start a normal lecture.
- zikduruqe 2y ago
  What amazes me on conference calls is how no one can explain audio issues. Really, really smart people on a call that can explain registers, cryptography, kernel tuning. Sounds like you are having network issues/bit errors? You are breaking up. Sounds like your bluetooth is having issues? You are breaking up. Sounds like they are mobile, and in a weak service area? You are breaking up.
troupo 2y ago
I used to joke it was ironic how people in management would always have their presentations up and running almost immediately while programmers seemed to always struggle with projectors. These days however nothing seems to work for anyone.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
  Management is typically running a stock Windows Dell/HP/Lenovo or a Mac. Programmers are running some custom Linux distro with a custom window manager and other customizations.
  - asveikau 2y ago
    The window manager won't matter at all in the HDMI/EDID negotiation with the projector. Windows vs the X server may make a difference. But which X11 WM you use should be irrelevant.
    - lelandbatey 2y ago
      Technically yes, but since the WM usually comes as part of a desktop environment that also includes utilities and daemons which help with that sort of thing, to many folks "my WM makes a big difference in how easy it is to set up external monitors" is often true. It drives me crazy that there's not a long running named process in e.g. GNOME the DE that if I run will cause my fn-volume keys on my laptop keyboard to change the volume any WM, the same as when I'm running GNOME? Why isn't that piece separated out? Or at least, where is the code so I can separate it out? Questions and experiences like that cause many to conflate behavior and experience with WM/DE.
rqtwteye 2y ago
Right after getting the screen layout right when you move between home office and work office :-)
- a1o 2y ago
  Seriously should be possible to save those in a layouts pane to force adjust the monitors
AndyMcConachie 2y ago
I once helped Andrew Tannenbaum get his laptop to work with the projector in the room. His presentation was only slightly delayed because of it, but the irony ...
jdboyd 2y ago
I've had good luck slapping an Extron IN-1606 in front of a projector to make all the compatibility problems go away.
thefaux 2y ago
This feels like such a fixable problem. Presenters should be required to show up early and test the av or send the conference their slides in advance.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  The burden shouldn't be on users. Why are computer manufacturers putting out a hardware/OS combination that can't work reliably with an external display? Don't they even test this common use case? Even my Mac (which, to Apple's credit, does work 100% reliably with projectors) still struggles when I plug in multiple external monitors, blanking the screen, turning on one external display, blanking them both, turning on the other one, and so on. This is a manufacturer who normally accepts only a smooth, polished user experience, and they still can't get it perfect. What chance do Lenovo or similar garbage-tier plastic box manufacturers have of getting it right?
strunz 2y ago
Say what you want about Apple but I've never had a problem printing or connecting a monitor/project (as long as I have the correct dongle :P )
mbonnet 2y ago
A/V is the final frontier, not P ?= NP

It seems like getting projectors to run is really the hardest problem in computer science.

Maken 2y ago

Harder than getting printers to print?

mschuster91 2y ago
At least printers give you some sort of error message. EDID negotiation or signal integrity issues in HDMI, good luck diagnosing actual causes without highly specialized (and expensive...) equipment.
- npongratz 2y ago
  > At least printers give you some sort of error message. Inscrutable, and infamous, though they may be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC_LOAD_LETTER
trustno2 2y ago
Hey that's what we get CUPS auto-discovery for.
- Propelloni 2y ago
  Good one!
high_na_euv 2y ago
It is unreal how tech as mature as printers is so fucking unreliable
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Arguably it still hasn't matured yet. Or at least it's nowhere near to be a solved problem and we'll probably sidestep it before ever coming up with a real solution. I'd put it in the same bucket as TODO lists. After centuries we're still not set.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  Depends on the printer. I still remember the LaserJet 4000 series with great fondness. They were absolute tanks that almost never broke. You did have to replace wear items like rollers, but that was it.
eka1 2y ago
Typically, you aren't trying to print in front of a large audience

netsharc 2y ago

Meanwhile, "this scratchy audio is fine!". I guess it's something one can throw AI at. It probably doesn't need GPUs, just some audio filters.

jimbokun 2y ago

I've been in Computer Science graduate courses and lectures in one of the top programs in the US where it seemed like every week the first 5 to 10 minutes was spent trying to get the projector to work with the lecturers laptop.

mlyle 2y ago
I just have a ChromeCast in each room that I lecture in. Easy to bounce a tab over to the big screen, and it turns on the TV/projector. It also helps prevent notification or other screen sharing related mishaps. My biggest complaints about this approach are that I can't easily see speaker notes (I have a fiddly workaround that I can use if I need it, but it would be nice if Google Slides would support the ChromeCast use case a little better..) and that the TVs/projectors tend to screw around for 10-15 seconds before automatically choosing the right source.
- dvngnt_ 2y ago
  would phone work?
  - mlyle 2y ago
    I know I can open other tabs to look at the presentation, so I assume it would. But it's not good optics for me to have a phone out when I ask my students not to do so. I can get a speaker notes and a normal presentation tab open and cast one of them, but they all jump around and do the wrong thing on my screen (wanting to maximize, etc) and require a lot of coercion; too much time to start a normal lecture.
zikduruqe 2y ago
What amazes me on conference calls is how no one can explain audio issues. Really, really smart people on a call that can explain registers, cryptography, kernel tuning. Sounds like you are having network issues/bit errors? You are breaking up. Sounds like your bluetooth is having issues? You are breaking up. Sounds like they are mobile, and in a weak service area? You are breaking up.

troupo 2y ago

I used to joke it was ironic how people in management would always have their presentations up and running almost immediately while programmers seemed to always struggle with projectors. These days however nothing seems to work for anyone.

RcouF1uZ4gsC 2y ago
Management is typically running a stock Windows Dell/HP/Lenovo or a Mac. Programmers are running some custom Linux distro with a custom window manager and other customizations.
- asveikau 2y ago
  The window manager won't matter at all in the HDMI/EDID negotiation with the projector. Windows vs the X server may make a difference. But which X11 WM you use should be irrelevant.
  - lelandbatey 2y ago
    Technically yes, but since the WM usually comes as part of a desktop environment that also includes utilities and daemons which help with that sort of thing, to many folks "my WM makes a big difference in how easy it is to set up external monitors" is often true. It drives me crazy that there's not a long running named process in e.g. GNOME the DE that if I run will cause my fn-volume keys on my laptop keyboard to change the volume any WM, the same as when I'm running GNOME? Why isn't that piece separated out? Or at least, where is the code so I can separate it out? Questions and experiences like that cause many to conflate behavior and experience with WM/DE.

rqtwteye 2y ago

Right after getting the screen layout right when you move between home office and work office :-)

a1o 2y ago
Seriously should be possible to save those in a layouts pane to force adjust the monitors

AndyMcConachie 2y ago

I once helped Andrew Tannenbaum get his laptop to work with the projector in the room. His presentation was only slightly delayed because of it, but the irony ...

jdboyd 2y ago

I've had good luck slapping an Extron IN-1606 in front of a projector to make all the compatibility problems go away.

thefaux 2y ago

This feels like such a fixable problem. Presenters should be required to show up early and test the av or send the conference their slides in advance.

ryandrake 2y ago
The burden shouldn't be on users. Why are computer manufacturers putting out a hardware/OS combination that can't work reliably with an external display? Don't they even test this common use case? Even my Mac (which, to Apple's credit, does work 100% reliably with projectors) still struggles when I plug in multiple external monitors, blanking the screen, turning on one external display, blanking them both, turning on the other one, and so on. This is a manufacturer who normally accepts only a smooth, polished user experience, and they still can't get it perfect. What chance do Lenovo or similar garbage-tier plastic box manufacturers have of getting it right?

strunz 2y ago

Say what you want about Apple but I've never had a problem printing or connecting a monitor/project (as long as I have the correct dongle :P )

mbonnet 2y ago

A/V is the final frontier, not P ?= NP