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There are also basically no wagons anymore. Apparently everything has to be a high-off-the-ground poor-visibility pedestrian murder machine to be profitable for

There are also basically no wagons anymore. Apparently everything has to be a high-off-the-ground poor-visibility pedestrian murder machine to be profitable for the auto industry anymore. Fuel economy standards should be fixed so that vehicles with truck chassis are treated the same as cars, tax loopholes advantaging truck chassis should be closed, there should be much stricter legal requirements for driver view of nearby low objects, possibly urban areas should have special 10 mph lower speed limits for SUV-sized vehicles, and there should be much higher financial liability for pedestrian/cyclist injuries, possibly piercing through directly to manufacturers. Otherwise, car design has been a race to the bottom.

iamthepieman 2y ago
Subaru still makes them. I would buy something else since I hate the anti privacy of the company and cars but it's all I can easily get
- xattt 2y ago
  Volvo, MB, Audi and BMW continue to make them too.
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    Not very well, though (and I don't think BMW sells wagons in the US anymore). They are positioned as "cool & snobby", rather than "useful". Peak wagon was the P3 Volvo V70/XC70, built on the Ford EUCD platform [1], which had amazing utility via tie-down rails, 40/20/40 fold-flat middle seats, and a front passenger seat that folded flat to create a uniform load floor for carrying 10 foot long boards. They were better at being useful than the Subaru Outback and yet had higher quality leather and carpets. And don't forget the vertical rear hatch, giving more interior space with a larger window (and larger rear wiper!) that gave them excellent rearward visibility. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EUCD_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EUCD_platform
  - sickofparadox 2y ago
    BMW does not sell a wagon in the US since 2019. My dad got the last generation they sold and its a joy to drive honestly.
- nytesky 2y ago
  They don’t make any 3 row wagons right? Only lux like BMW and Mercedes do I think.
  - jacobolus 2y ago
    VW has a new wagon, but it's only available in Europe, not the US.
gruez 2y ago
>Fuel economy standards should be fixed so that vehicles with truck chassis are treated the same as cars Subjecting big trucks to the same standards as small cars either makes the fuel standards pointless (as they cater to trucks), or outlaws trucks entirely, which is political suicide. People already pay extra for big trucks, which suggests it's something they intrinsically like, and will oppose efforts to ban them.
- spondylosaurus 2y ago
  You're not wrong about how (either directly or indirectly) outlawing trucks would be political suicide, but man, that's a grim thing to think about. The fate of the world hangs in the balance of people whose top concerns include being able to drive monstrously huge cars.
  - twiceaday 2y ago
    If you want grim realize its the same with guns.
    - grues-dinner 2y ago
      Guns is just the fate of the US, no other developed country has that problem. This obsession with SUVs and blobby crossovers affects everywhere.
      - fakedang 2y ago
        To add to that, in Europe I've seen a lot more folks now preferring SUVs because in an accident, many buyers approach it with an "it's better to be alive in your SUV, even if it was responsible for killing the small car passengers" mentality.
        grues-dinner 2y ago
        I think the problem is that everyone assumes an accident would be the other vehicle's fault, so they're buying protection against someone else hitting them. In that mindset's hypothetical, the small car is acceptable damage because the small car caused the accident. Again in that mindset, why would you volunteer to die in an accident you didn't cause? I'm not really sure what you can do to fix it, and anything you could do would be political suicide. I'd like to think if i were in charge, I'd have them banned for urban use by the end of the week, but I'd also be out of office by next Monday.
xattt 2y ago
An EV station wagon would be amazing for range, utility and safety.
- schrectacular 2y ago
  Prius V! Hybrid, not fully EV, and they don't make them anymore.
- bzzzt 2y ago
  In Europe, there's the MG5 EV station. Seems to be the only EV station wagon on the market here.
uuddlrlrbaba 2y ago
> There are also basically no wagons anymore. Apparently everything has to be a high-off-the-ground poor-visibility pedestrian murder machine to be profitable for the auto industry anymore. Honestly this just indicates that you haven't seriously driven a modern CUV. What you describe sounds like a 1990 suburban. CUVs wouldn't be so popular without being safe and easy to drive. Sure, I'm opposed to daily driving trucks and truck frame SUVs. But thats an important distinction. The popular cars in the US today are CUVs which are built on a car chassis and generally speaking have good visibility and safety features. They are essentially scaled up wagons with awd.
- dmd 2y ago
  The Forester is basically perfect, IMO. (Though it would be more perfect as a hybrid.)
  - otteromkram 2y ago
    Found the Coloradan!
    - dmd 2y ago
      ???
      - DCH3416 2y ago
        Subaru at one point was the most popular automotive brand in Colorado.
        dmd 2y ago
        OK, but it's also one of the most common cars in the whole country, so it's just a weird statement.
        DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        They were making a joke about how everyone in Colorado seems to drive a Forester. That's all.
ToDougie 2y ago
Every time I see posts like this, I just know the poster has no concept of daily life in the interior of America. Trucks suck in urban environments, but then CAFE standards destroyed the small truck.
squidgedcricket 2y ago
> urban areas should have special 10 mph lower speed limits for SUV-sized vehicles This is such a good idea that I've never heard before. Are there any good blog posts ot whatever that explore it?
- yencabulator 2y ago
  Here's a precedent, UK limits heavier vehicle upper speeds: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/speed-limits/ https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/speed-limits/
hermitcrab 2y ago
Even in the UK market everything is starting to look like an SUV or an SUV 'crossover'. 95%+ of UK drivers do not need a truck or SUV. But, if everyone else is buying pedestrian/bike killer tanks, there is a temptation to get one yourself. Just to stand a chance of surviving a head on with another tank. Definitely a race to the bottom. :0(

iamthepieman 2y ago

Subaru still makes them. I would buy something else since I hate the anti privacy of the company and cars but it's all I can easily get

xattt 2y ago
Volvo, MB, Audi and BMW continue to make them too.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  Not very well, though (and I don't think BMW sells wagons in the US anymore). They are positioned as "cool & snobby", rather than "useful". Peak wagon was the P3 Volvo V70/XC70, built on the Ford EUCD platform [1], which had amazing utility via tie-down rails, 40/20/40 fold-flat middle seats, and a front passenger seat that folded flat to create a uniform load floor for carrying 10 foot long boards. They were better at being useful than the Subaru Outback and yet had higher quality leather and carpets. And don't forget the vertical rear hatch, giving more interior space with a larger window (and larger rear wiper!) that gave them excellent rearward visibility. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EUCD_platform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_EUCD_platform
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  BMW does not sell a wagon in the US since 2019. My dad got the last generation they sold and its a joy to drive honestly.
nytesky 2y ago
They don’t make any 3 row wagons right? Only lux like BMW and Mercedes do I think.
- jacobolus 2y ago
  VW has a new wagon, but it's only available in Europe, not the US.

gruez 2y ago

>Fuel economy standards should be fixed so that vehicles with truck chassis are treated the same as cars Subjecting big trucks to the same standards as small cars either makes the fuel standards pointless (as they cater to trucks), or outlaws trucks entirely, which is political suicide. People already pay extra for big trucks, which suggests it's something they intrinsically like, and will oppose efforts to ban them.

spondylosaurus 2y ago
You're not wrong about how (either directly or indirectly) outlawing trucks would be political suicide, but man, that's a grim thing to think about. The fate of the world hangs in the balance of people whose top concerns include being able to drive monstrously huge cars.
- twiceaday 2y ago
  If you want grim realize its the same with guns.
  - grues-dinner 2y ago
    Guns is just the fate of the US, no other developed country has that problem. This obsession with SUVs and blobby crossovers affects everywhere.
    - fakedang 2y ago
      To add to that, in Europe I've seen a lot more folks now preferring SUVs because in an accident, many buyers approach it with an "it's better to be alive in your SUV, even if it was responsible for killing the small car passengers" mentality.
      - grues-dinner 2y ago
        I think the problem is that everyone assumes an accident would be the other vehicle's fault, so they're buying protection against someone else hitting them. In that mindset's hypothetical, the small car is acceptable damage because the small car caused the accident. Again in that mindset, why would you volunteer to die in an accident you didn't cause? I'm not really sure what you can do to fix it, and anything you could do would be political suicide. I'd like to think if i were in charge, I'd have them banned for urban use by the end of the week, but I'd also be out of office by next Monday.

xattt 2y ago

An EV station wagon would be amazing for range, utility and safety.

schrectacular 2y ago
Prius V! Hybrid, not fully EV, and they don't make them anymore.
bzzzt 2y ago
In Europe, there's the MG5 EV station. Seems to be the only EV station wagon on the market here.

uuddlrlrbaba 2y ago

> There are also basically no wagons anymore. Apparently everything has to be a high-off-the-ground poor-visibility pedestrian murder machine to be profitable for the auto industry anymore. Honestly this just indicates that you haven't seriously driven a modern CUV. What you describe sounds like a 1990 suburban. CUVs wouldn't be so popular without being safe and easy to drive. Sure, I'm opposed to daily driving trucks and truck frame SUVs. But thats an important distinction. The popular cars in the US today are CUVs which are built on a car chassis and generally speaking have good visibility and safety features. They are essentially scaled up wagons with awd.

dmd 2y ago
The Forester is basically perfect, IMO. (Though it would be more perfect as a hybrid.)
- otteromkram 2y ago
  Found the Coloradan!
  - dmd 2y ago
    ???
    - DCH3416 2y ago
      Subaru at one point was the most popular automotive brand in Colorado.
      - dmd 2y ago
        OK, but it's also one of the most common cars in the whole country, so it's just a weird statement.
        DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        They were making a joke about how everyone in Colorado seems to drive a Forester. That's all.

ToDougie 2y ago

Every time I see posts like this, I just know the poster has no concept of daily life in the interior of America. Trucks suck in urban environments, but then CAFE standards destroyed the small truck.

squidgedcricket 2y ago

> urban areas should have special 10 mph lower speed limits for SUV-sized vehicles This is such a good idea that I've never heard before. Are there any good blog posts ot whatever that explore it?

yencabulator 2y ago
Here's a precedent, UK limits heavier vehicle upper speeds: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/speed-limits/ https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/speed-limits/

hermitcrab 2y ago

Even in the UK market everything is starting to look like an SUV or an SUV 'crossover'. 95%+ of UK drivers do not need a truck or SUV. But, if everyone else is buying pedestrian/bike killer tanks, there is a temptation to get one yourself. Just to stand a chance of surviving a head on with another tank. Definitely a race to the bottom. :0(