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Can you believe that Jared Kushner's father only had to donate $2.5 million to get his son into Harvard? That's chump change for an institution that rich. They

Can you believe that Jared Kushner's father only had to donate $2.5 million to get his son into Harvard? That's chump change for an institution that rich. They should have asked for more.

Scoundreller 2y ago
Harvard could use an international airport.
- mauvehaus 2y ago
  The red line goes right to South Station, from which you can catch the silver line to the airport. The planes departing Logan fly right over Somerville at 60-90 second intervals when the wind is blowing the right direction. I dare say that an international airport is about the last thing Harvard needs.
  - Scoundreller 2y ago
    it's a reference to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNdcdO3_Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNdcdO3_Go
SoftTalker 2y ago
My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes. At that point, why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time? Edit: I guess, though, that the point of degrees from schools like these is not the degree, but the connections. But I'd guess those could be purchased as well.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time? If you do business in the Middle East, you begin to notice the kids of the elites all went to weird no-name Western schools. Turns out they want a Western degree, but don’t want to be away from the capital too long. So they find random universities who will give them a degree for, essentially, no-show remote learning classes. Win-win.
  - Loughla 2y ago
    What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power. They're not learning anything. What's the point?
    - phil21 2y ago
      Pretend prestige. They have the connections and power but not pedigree. As someone without a college degree in tech, and who has attempted but failed to get a tradition “corporate” job based on skills and track record I can sort of understand. Not the same thing at all, but you’d be amazed (or not?) at how much importance some folks put on having a piece of paper even in casual social settings in some circles. Actual skills need not apply.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        It would seem to be hard to convince someone you had skills in a social setting. Hence the use of a proxy.
        lazide 2y ago
        Sometimes it’s also a flex to have to certificate but clearly not have the actual skills.
    - rapidaneurism 2y ago
      The son of the high ranking individual is appointed in a high position in some ministry. Anyone who cries nepotism is quickly reminded that he holds a prestigious western degree, and that is the reason for the appointment.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power One could say the same of a billionaire buying their idiot kid an Ivy League education. They're clearly not going to benefit from it. But it looks good and might fool a person here and there.
- gomerspiles 2y ago
  Grades are almost guaranteed at Harvard Undergrad. A grader who gives out any Bs or less for any properly submitted paper can expect an outraged Professor to make them stop before he has to deal with the backlash which may include a lawyer. This may vary by department or over time, but I think there's no reason to believe a Harvard Undergrad Alumni you meet ever did any college level work.
  - phaerus_iconix 2y ago
    What year did you graduate that you developed this opinion? I received many Bs across a variety of departments while doing my BA from '96-2000. Getting As was significantly harder than it had been in highschool because of how much smarter and more hard-working the average student was at Harvard than they had been at the elite private school I had previously been on a scholarship to. The one time I contested a B I got rejected by the head of department in a meeting that took less than 30 seconds; he was so brutal about my result compared to those who got an A I never dared to contest another grade again - the curve they graded against was very strong in my time...
    - lubujackson 2y ago
      I was roughly the same timeline and didn't go to Harvard (had friends that did), but the grade inflation was already known. It certainly wasn't as pervasive as it is now, but at my school "crying to the professor" was a classic tactic to get grades bumped up. But this was just before all the RateAProfessor sites got big and when I was still proud of my cum laude GPA. About 5 years later is when I started hearing everyone was getting As at Harvard, so I think it was a sudden shift right after your time and certainly not just a Harvard thing.
- skhunted 2y ago
  In the old days Ivy league type schools gave “gentleman C’s”. Harvard rarely fails someone. Grade inflation is highest at Ivy league type schools.
- cvwright 2y ago
  Many years ago, I was a grad TA at a school that is now top 10 in the US. Based on that experience, I think everyone paying full freight at these schools is buying their grades. It was de facto impossible to fail any student for cheating, or to punish them in any real way. Too bad too, since the half of undergrads who weren’t cheaters were the nicest, brightest, salt-of-the-earth people.
- csa 2y ago
  > My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? This made me laugh out loud. There are majors at every university that are easy to graduate from. Often these are aimed precisely at academically unambitious athletes and well-connected mediocre students. Harvard is no exception. Getting into elite schools is the hard part. Graduating is not. > But I'd guess those could be purchased as well. Maybe? Not really? If you’re already part of that social circle and socio-economic status (SES), you don’t have to buy it. If you’re not already in that that SES, then building elite connections requires quite a bit of cultivation that, imho, is not easy for most college-aged kids to pull off, largely due to ignorance of SES/class distinctions in the US.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    I would say that certain majors being easy is a much smaller issue than getting the grades you want in any major.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  > My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes. There's no need to buy grades. All grades are A anyway.
CydeWeys 2y ago
To be fair, and I can't believe I am even defending Jared Kushner of all people, but that $2.5M donation was made in 1998. That was a very high donation for the time. The price of tuition and academic donations has absolutely rocketed in the nearly three decades since then (way ahead of general inflation). That's equivalent to at least a $10M donation nowadays.

Can you believe that Jared Kushner's father only had to donate $2.5 million to get his son into Harvard? That's chump change for an institution that rich. They should have asked for more.

Scoundreller 2y ago

Harvard could use an international airport.

mauvehaus 2y ago
The red line goes right to South Station, from which you can catch the silver line to the airport. The planes departing Logan fly right over Somerville at 60-90 second intervals when the wind is blowing the right direction. I dare say that an international airport is about the last thing Harvard needs.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  it's a reference to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNdcdO3_Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbNdcdO3_Go

SoftTalker 2y ago

My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes. At that point, why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time? Edit: I guess, though, that the point of degrees from schools like these is not the degree, but the connections. But I'd guess those could be purchased as well.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> why not just buy the degree and save everyone a lot of time? If you do business in the Middle East, you begin to notice the kids of the elites all went to weird no-name Western schools. Turns out they want a Western degree, but don’t want to be away from the capital too long. So they find random universities who will give them a degree for, essentially, no-show remote learning classes. Win-win.
- Loughla 2y ago
  What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power. They're not learning anything. What's the point?
  - phil21 2y ago
    Pretend prestige. They have the connections and power but not pedigree. As someone without a college degree in tech, and who has attempted but failed to get a tradition “corporate” job based on skills and track record I can sort of understand. Not the same thing at all, but you’d be amazed (or not?) at how much importance some folks put on having a piece of paper even in casual social settings in some circles. Actual skills need not apply.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      It would seem to be hard to convince someone you had skills in a social setting. Hence the use of a proxy.
      - lazide 2y ago
        Sometimes it’s also a flex to have to certificate but clearly not have the actual skills.
  - rapidaneurism 2y ago
    The son of the high ranking individual is appointed in a high position in some ministry. Anyone who cries nepotism is quickly reminded that he holds a prestigious western degree, and that is the reason for the appointment.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > What is the point of that? They already have the connections and power One could say the same of a billionaire buying their idiot kid an Ivy League education. They're clearly not going to benefit from it. But it looks good and might fool a person here and there.
gomerspiles 2y ago
Grades are almost guaranteed at Harvard Undergrad. A grader who gives out any Bs or less for any properly submitted paper can expect an outraged Professor to make them stop before he has to deal with the backlash which may include a lawyer. This may vary by department or over time, but I think there's no reason to believe a Harvard Undergrad Alumni you meet ever did any college level work.
- phaerus_iconix 2y ago
  What year did you graduate that you developed this opinion? I received many Bs across a variety of departments while doing my BA from '96-2000. Getting As was significantly harder than it had been in highschool because of how much smarter and more hard-working the average student was at Harvard than they had been at the elite private school I had previously been on a scholarship to. The one time I contested a B I got rejected by the head of department in a meeting that took less than 30 seconds; he was so brutal about my result compared to those who got an A I never dared to contest another grade again - the curve they graded against was very strong in my time...
  - lubujackson 2y ago
    I was roughly the same timeline and didn't go to Harvard (had friends that did), but the grade inflation was already known. It certainly wasn't as pervasive as it is now, but at my school "crying to the professor" was a classic tactic to get grades bumped up. But this was just before all the RateAProfessor sites got big and when I was still proud of my cum laude GPA. About 5 years later is when I started hearing everyone was getting As at Harvard, so I think it was a sudden shift right after your time and certainly not just a Harvard thing.
skhunted 2y ago
In the old days Ivy league type schools gave “gentleman C’s”. Harvard rarely fails someone. Grade inflation is highest at Ivy league type schools.
cvwright 2y ago
Many years ago, I was a grad TA at a school that is now top 10 in the US. Based on that experience, I think everyone paying full freight at these schools is buying their grades. It was de facto impossible to fail any student for cheating, or to punish them in any real way. Too bad too, since the half of undergrads who weren’t cheaters were the nicest, brightest, salt-of-the-earth people.
csa 2y ago
> My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? This made me laugh out loud. There are majors at every university that are easy to graduate from. Often these are aimed precisely at academically unambitious athletes and well-connected mediocre students. Harvard is no exception. Getting into elite schools is the hard part. Graduating is not. > But I'd guess those could be purchased as well. Maybe? Not really? If you’re already part of that social circle and socio-economic status (SES), you don’t have to buy it. If you’re not already in that that SES, then building elite connections requires quite a bit of cultivation that, imho, is not easy for most college-aged kids to pull off, largely due to ignorance of SES/class distinctions in the US.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  I would say that certain majors being easy is a much smaller issue than getting the grades you want in any major.
thaumasiotes 2y ago
> My question is can donors buy not only admission but also grades? My guess is yes. There's no need to buy grades. All grades are A anyway.

CydeWeys 2y ago

To be fair, and I can't believe I am even defending Jared Kushner of all people, but that $2.5M donation was made in 1998. That was a very high donation for the time. The price of tuition and academic donations has absolutely rocketed in the nearly three decades since then (way ahead of general inflation). That's equivalent to at least a $10M donation nowadays.