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The accusation that WPE is responsible for there not being redundancy in API access to WordPress.org services is absurd. If AWS rents me a server running Window

The accusation that WPE is responsible for there not being redundancy in API access to WordPress.org services is absurd. If AWS rents me a server running Windows, there's not an expectation that they run their own update servers and app store. Automattic cut off API access for users who hosted on WPE. Let that be very clear: Automattic's position is that you can install WordPress on any server and get updates and plugins, so long as it's not WPE's servers. This is Automattic trying to extract rent from the people hosting the servers and preinstalling the software.

BCM43 2y ago
$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main
- Twirrim 2y ago
  Which is run by... who? Debian? AWS? I know from personal experience that Canonical choose to run mirrors for some clouds, on those clouds, for example.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  There's no obligation to do this. AWS chooses to do this for performance/experience/bandwidth reasons (and it enhances the user experience).
bad_user 2y ago
WordPress.org isn't renting anything, it's providing those services for free. The analogy with AWS doesn't work because with WP money doesn't change hands. WP Engine or their users aren't paying for the services provided by WordPress.org and these are services that cost money for continued hosting. Anything provided is a gift and WP.org is under no obligation, moral or contractual, to keep providing those services. There are many issues with how this was handled but this isn't one of them.
- flutas 2y ago
  > WordPress.org isn't renting anything and WP.org isn't being targeted at all by WP Engine. > The analogy with AWS doesn't work because with WP money doesn't change hands. WP Engine or their users aren't paying for the services provided by WordPress.org and these are services that cost money for continued hosting. First of all, the analogy is very good imo. Amazon in this case is WP.com, Windows would be WP.org. They are supposed to be completely separate legal entities. Now on to your "point" > users aren't paying for the services Neither are people hosting it on WP.com (Automattic). Automattic is supposed to be a completely separate legal entity. Is Automattic (again wp.COM, not ORG) paying wp.ORG for this access to the wp.ORG theme/plugin API in a way that can be verified? Is this a requirement for everyone hosting WP now? What are the API rate costs and where do you pay? > There are many issues with how this was handled but this isn't one of them. Yes, this is absolutely one of them. Is wp.ORG and wp.COM the same company or not. Because either way, it smells like a 501c3 getting stripped.
  - bad_user 2y ago
    WP.org isn't independent obviously because it's being funded in large part by Automattic who pays the bills. And this issue of independence is separate, don't move the discussion... Why is WP.org obligated to provide free services to WP Engine and their users? Why the entitlement?
    - chuckadams 2y ago
      Why is WP.org entitled to selectively blacklist one downstream consumer and not others? Have they demonstrated that WPE is putting undue load on the infrastructure? Have they even alleged it until just now? If wp.org is part of the foundation, then they have a legally binding mission, and "acting in Automattic's strategic interests" is not in there. If they're not, then a8c is intentionally obfuscating their ownership of wp.org, thus placing the credibility and legal status of the foundation in jeopardy.
      - batuhanicoz 2y ago
chuckadams 2y ago
It doesn't help that wordpress.org urls are hardwired into the source. WPE of course has the resources to patch them, but making it customizable was clearly not a priority for Automattic, who collects all the telemetry data -- and notably does not share it with plugin devs.

BCM43 2y ago

$ cat /etc/apt/sources.list deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian bookworm main deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian-security bookworm-security main deb http://cdn-aws.deb.debian.org/debian bookworm-updates main

Twirrim 2y ago
Which is run by... who? Debian? AWS? I know from personal experience that Canonical choose to run mirrors for some clouds, on those clouds, for example.
FireBeyond 2y ago
There's no obligation to do this. AWS chooses to do this for performance/experience/bandwidth reasons (and it enhances the user experience).

bad_user 2y ago

WordPress.org isn't renting anything, it's providing those services for free. The analogy with AWS doesn't work because with WP money doesn't change hands. WP Engine or their users aren't paying for the services provided by WordPress.org and these are services that cost money for continued hosting. Anything provided is a gift and WP.org is under no obligation, moral or contractual, to keep providing those services. There are many issues with how this was handled but this isn't one of them.

flutas 2y ago
> WordPress.org isn't renting anything and WP.org isn't being targeted at all by WP Engine. > The analogy with AWS doesn't work because with WP money doesn't change hands. WP Engine or their users aren't paying for the services provided by WordPress.org and these are services that cost money for continued hosting. First of all, the analogy is very good imo. Amazon in this case is WP.com, Windows would be WP.org. They are supposed to be completely separate legal entities. Now on to your "point" > users aren't paying for the services Neither are people hosting it on WP.com (Automattic). Automattic is supposed to be a completely separate legal entity. Is Automattic (again wp.COM, not ORG) paying wp.ORG for this access to the wp.ORG theme/plugin API in a way that can be verified? Is this a requirement for everyone hosting WP now? What are the API rate costs and where do you pay? > There are many issues with how this was handled but this isn't one of them. Yes, this is absolutely one of them. Is wp.ORG and wp.COM the same company or not. Because either way, it smells like a 501c3 getting stripped.
- bad_user 2y ago
  WP.org isn't independent obviously because it's being funded in large part by Automattic who pays the bills. And this issue of independence is separate, don't move the discussion... Why is WP.org obligated to provide free services to WP Engine and their users? Why the entitlement?
  - chuckadams 2y ago
    Why is WP.org entitled to selectively blacklist one downstream consumer and not others? Have they demonstrated that WPE is putting undue load on the infrastructure? Have they even alleged it until just now? If wp.org is part of the foundation, then they have a legally binding mission, and "acting in Automattic's strategic interests" is not in there. If they're not, then a8c is intentionally obfuscating their ownership of wp.org, thus placing the credibility and legal status of the foundation in jeopardy.
    - batuhanicoz 2y ago

chuckadams 2y ago

It doesn't help that wordpress.org urls are hardwired into the source. WPE of course has the resources to patch them, but making it customizable was clearly not a priority for Automattic, who collects all the telemetry data -- and notably does not share it with plugin devs.