7 ms·

Gambling is a vice, and we should allow it but make it expensive and somewhat stigmatized. At the very least, ads should be banned or require nasty images like

• changoplatanero 2y ago
  I would also suggest capping the amount that people can bet per week or month to prevent too many weak human minds from ruining their lives and worse than that ruining the lives of their wives and kids.
  • dgoldstein0 2y ago
    But his would those amounts be set? For some people $100/week would be a lot of money; for higher earners it'd be basically nothing.
    • micromacrofoot 2y ago
      that would be a good system, base it on income or wealth — you're limited to $100/week or whatever unless you can validate you can afford more let's means test the rich for once
      • dgoldstein0 2y ago
        100/week is 5200/year. That's probably the difference between making ends meet and being always in debt for a lot of households - the median us household income is about $50k and we're talking 10% of that. That's a huge difference for the median household, and likely pretty catastrophic for the bottom quartile. Which arguably is as much a problem with income inequality as anything else, but the point is, gambling exacerbates existing social problems.
• pclmulqdq 2y ago
  I have participated in a few meetings of some lottery boards, and I have heard that there is a tension here between the illegal market and the pricing of the legal market. Some states charge the (relatively low) commissions that the illegal market charges because they would prefer to stamp out the illegal market, and others take your position but have a thriving black market for gambling. Those are basically the two options.
  • PaulHoule 2y ago
    I think illegal sports gambling was less pernicious. The usual bookie offered bets on the outcome of games which are much harder to manipulate than the stupid prop bets that people get addicted to now. The stigma of being involved in something illegal also slowed things down, you had to actually call up a bookie and not just press a button on an app.
    • pclmulqdq 2y ago
      For what it's worth, I agree with you, but that's the counter-argument: if prices are too high, you're going to essentially get people either circumventing restrictions (eg with VPNs) or turning to gangs. Some of the other games that state lotteries are adopting are almost as bad as sports betting in terms of their availability (look up instant-play gaming), but sports betting feels like a game of skill, which certainly makes it worse from a psychological perspective. I still think it should be legal if people are going to do it anyway. Maybe banning the "specials" on combo bets or requiring them to be labeled as "this is still a bad bet" could help. For the record, I have a vested interest in sports gambling being banned because I sell products involved in instant-play and other forms of gaming that are not involved in sports betting.
      • nerdponx 2y ago
        Did people do illegal online sports gambling before it was legal? Did it do as much harm as it does now?
        • 2y ago
• jayski 2y ago
  There's some evidence ludopathy has a genetic component (aside from obviously environmental). I think it's cruel for us as a society to allow that to be exploited for financial gain.
• neaden 2y ago
  This is basically where I am at. I live in Illinois and it used to be you could bet at the race track or a couple Off Track Betting locations, otherwise you would have to go to a casino which was probably a distance away. Then they legalized Video Gambling and it popped up in a bunch of bars, restaurants, and stand alone places. You even see it in gas stations sometimes. Now with sports betting online there are constant advertisements for it all the time. In just 15 years legalized gambling went from something relatively niche to extremely prevalent.
  • paleotrope 2y ago
    Slippery slopes and all that
  • autoexec 2y ago
    There's a scene in Idiocracy where a the main character goes to a hospital and there are slot machines in the background (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70UdQJDzj4k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70UdQJDzj4k). The last time I saw it I immediately thought of Illinois. Every time I travel to chicagoland I'm shocked to seem them everywhere. Their presence somehow makes otherwise normal places look very sad.
    • shaftway 2y ago
      Higher res and earlier shot where the slot machines are focused on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcYbYhjdUb4&t=69s&ab_channel=Aladeenandaladeen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcYbYhjdUb4&t=69s&ab_channel... Bonus for phrases on them like "Play while you wait" and "Win free medical care"
      • willcipriano 2y ago
        SpongeBob is the voice of the doctor machine.
• lupusreal 2y ago
  Tobacco bans are the way of the future, with existing smokers grandfathered out of the ban to minimize political opposition. If you're born after X date then it will never be legal for you to but it. Opposition to bans is sort of a libertarian dogma, they say bans never work and only make the problem worse or introduce new problems, and usually cite alcohol prohibition in America. But a lot of bans do work, and even that one apparently succeeded in reducing alcohol consumption even if it did empower organized crime. What's more, it's pretty easy to ferment alcohol in your basement but it's a lot harder to hide fields of tobacco. Political dogma never captures the nuance of reality.
  • paleotrope 2y ago
    You seem to have the assumption that libertarian opposition to bans is based on the practicality of such and not the principle of allowing adults to make their own choices
    • inquisitorG 2y ago
      It never ceases to amaze me how much people love to tell other people what to do even when it has absolutely nothing to do with them. I think sports gambling is stupid and has largely ruined sports for me. Most people I know though seem to really love it, gamble completely responsibly and seem to enjoy sports they did not enjoy previously. Unfortunately, there is no story to click on without some kind of moral outrage or "mistake" that the "smart" people need to correct. Especially appealing if it can bent into some kind of political bullshit narrative .
  • csomar 2y ago
    [flagged]
  • golergka 2y ago
    > they say bans never work and only make the problem worse or introduce new problems No, that's not what we say. The primary argument for it is because we do not subscribe to a utilitarian morality. If we know that some decision leads to better outcomes from the POV of general quality of life and the like, we still wouldn't support it if it trampled individual freedoms, because we consider the latter to be more important. It's not a difference of opinion over whether a certain theorem proves true or false. It's a matter of different set of axioms altogether.
• bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Expensive in terms of effort, yes. There must be several opportunities for higher brain function to over-ride the reptile brain before a bet is placed.
  • nerdponx 2y ago
    New federal law: all gambling bets must be placed by fax or mail accompanied by a legible signature, with results to be released no less than 24 hours after betting closes.
    • chillydawg 2y ago
      You jest but a serious proposal on the table in Brasil right now is constant/ongoing facial recognition on online betting sites to authorise the session.
  • tgv 2y ago
    Indeed. Expensive in terms of money it already is, and it's not effective.
    • bryanlarsen 2y ago
      Sports betting sites generally have margins well under 10%. That's not expensive IMO.
• ravenstine 2y ago
  Just about everything that's fun is a "vice".
  • thefifthsetpin 2y ago
    There might be someone hopelessly addicted to amateur astronomy, frequently disrupting their sleep schedule and taking out usurious loans to pay for their equipment. But, that's not happening on a scale that we need societal regulation. Gambling is a different sort of vice than many fun activities.
  • wavemode 2y ago
    Playing tennis is a vice?
    • ravenstine 2y ago
      Tennis can certainly be viewed that way. It's done recreationally, costs money, costs time, can cause injuries and joint problems, and is not productive. There are health benefits, but nothing that can't be had by much safer and less costly means of exercise.
      • wavemode 2y ago
        Well, anything "can be viewed" in any way. That doesn't mean the view is correct or commonly used or accepted. So criticizing the concept of vice on the grounds that "everything that's fun is a vice" is somewhat of a semantic strawman - you're criticizing the word by changing its meaning.
        • ravenstine 2y ago
          No it isn't. It's an opinion as to whether something is a vice. There is no theoretical model of what makes a vice; no piece of kit to measure the viceness of something. There is no morality particle to reference. It's also an opinion whether a vice is actually something negative or just a necessary aspect of the human experience.
• lnxg33k1 2y ago
  I'm not sure it would work to make it expensive, I've lived in London for a while, and tobacco products are very expensive there, they were expensive for me, I knew few Ukrainian guys I would buy cigarettes from, for 2-3 pounds a packet, while I had enough money to buy 13 pounds cigarettes after I found a better job. I know a lot of people from when I was there, they were still buying cigarettes from those Ukrainians. You make gambling expensive? I'm sure lower classes can find someone who can let them gamble for cheap. I am no libertarian, but I think when it comes to vices, it's a lost battle, prohibition works for a the better-off part of the population, it leaves the one who need government the most, outside the government reach. I'd say things should be legalised, but money shouldn't be spent for anything except help programs, social programs, better working conditions for those who suffer and find peace in gambling and/or drugs. Legalising gambling was probably a mistake, but it was a way to keep it out of reach of organised crime. I think being born and raised in Naples, I've lived all my life in direct contact with organised crime, but many people live in places and don't make the connection, but I'd suggest everyone who think about regulating or not, to keep in mind that in any place you're in, there are 2 governments, one you can see, and one you can not
• avazhi 2y ago
  It’s already stigmatised - have you seen the quintessential meth addict/crack whores that hang around gambling/gaming joints? There has to be a lower class. Not all but most of the people who inhabit it are just where they belong. Interventionist states with paternal social policies can’t magically raise the IQs of the dumbest 20% of their populations by 50 points, alas. No respectable person goes to a casino except as a gag to throw away expendable income. Some labourer spending 80% of his wages at Ladbroke’s is a symptom of his stupidity, not the cause of it.
  • lotsofpulp 2y ago
    I see so many younger cousins/niblings casually gambling on their phones all the time. And these are not poor kids/men, easily top 20% in the US. The sheer amount of advertising for gambling and revenue growth for these companies indicates there is little stigma.
  • aiisjustanif 2y ago
    This is not the case in the US.
  • rblatz 2y ago
    That may be true for the UK, but in America it’s very different. Most casinos are big fancy places, the local casino by me on the Indian reservation has world famous DJ’s playing pool parties, an amazing restaurant, and valet parking with supercars out front every time I have been. Every football game has an announcer giving his lock of the week pick for DraftKings. Every stadium has a brand new fancy looking sports book attached or next door. Hell they built a draft kings attached to the local PGA course. Most people do it all via an app, no need to even leave your couch. People openly share their bets with friends. I don’t even do sports betting, but it’s basically all over and constantly in my face.
    • chillydawg 2y ago
      What state is that? Sounds pretty bad.
• batushka5 2y ago
  As a step one online betting should be banned. Make access to it more difficult as with all substances.
• pushupentry1219 2y ago
  Its already expensive as it is, is it not? Like in a "people are losing heaps of money from their sour bets" kind of way. My thought is it being more expensive is not going to stop gambling addicts since they are already willing to lose heaps of money by making the bet in the first place. I agree about banning ads 100%.
  • XlA5vEKsMISoIln 2y ago
    It should be expensive to make business out of it.