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91% of polled Amazon staff unhappy with RTO, 3-in-4 want to jump ship
- seydor 2y agobut look at what they do not what they say
- nahname 2y agoWorking as expected. https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/09/rto_quit_study/ https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/09/rto_quit_study/
- bilekas 2y agoIt might be working as expected, even though the number is quite high, maybe higher than expected. The problem I see is when they do need to hire later down the line, it will be much harder to convince people to move when the change in work/life balance is that drastic.
- nahname 2y agoI agree. Usually your best people have an easier time finding new jobs and are the first to go. That will also work against future hiring when you no longer have the talent to draw in great people.
- underseacables 2y agoI think the visibility is important. After 20 years in the workforce, I've learned that it's more important to be liked than it is to do a good job. If people work from home, the managers have trouble knowing who to keep, and who to lay off, because they can't interact with you socially in person.
- MattPalmer1086 2y agoWow, that is wrong on so many levels. Getting rid of good workers because you don't personally like them? Keeping your mates even if they're useless? If a manager can't figure out who is productive from looking at what they deliver and how, then the manager needs to be finding another job.
- RestlessMind 2y ago> Getting rid of good workers because you don't personally like them? Keeping your mates even if they're useless? Things are rarely so clear-cut. Usually there are shades of gray and humans tend to develop affinity for the ones they interact with in person. So if two colleagues are similar in performance, one in office gets preferential treatment due to unconscious bias. That's just human nature and how we have evolved. If you want to learn more about it, here is a pointer - https://www.betterup.com/blog/proximity-bias https://www.betterup.com/blog/proximity-bias
- spicyusername 2y agoBlind isn't exactly a representative sample of the Amazon workforce... These days Blind has become quite an ugly dumping ground for racist, misogynistic, and generally unpleasant ignorant discourse.
- malfist 2y agoIt's always had those elements, but over the last year or two it seems that's all they promote to their front page anymore. Can't even log in anymore without the first page load being full of far right screeds.
- mozman 2y agoIs it really all that or you just disagree? Have to be kind and respectful of others - especially when they are not to you. I think a lot of people are afraid to tell the truth. After years of pretending and keeping it bottled up inside there will be some unhealthy elements.
- brookst 2y agoYou can’t really be saying the bigoted, racist, sexist screeds that dominate Blind are “the truth”… what did I misunderstand in your post?
- delfinom 2y agoKeeping politics out of the workplace was been decorum for decades upon decades. It's only your modern braindead right wingers that can't stfu as their brain is ruined by doomscrolling.
- malfist 2y agoI just logged in to see what showed up first First post shown to me is: Amazon culture is bad because of Indian work culture. Second is: Should Hindi be made the national language? Next is one complaining about dei getting women into high paying tech jobs instead of plumbing. The fourth is the first one that's not racist or sexist and is about openai. So yes, I think it is really "all that"
- PedroBatista 2y agoShort term it doesn’t matter for Amazon, they are printing money but more challenging times are ahead and wouldn’t mind to reduce their headcount. Being “unhappy” has been the staple of most Amazon employees since the beginning - see Yegge blog posts. Tech jobs do not abound right now, so if they are going to do this, the moment is now. The discussion if this is the right move or not ( for the future of the company) is one we could have, but in a way it’s like the peasants discussing the latest drama in the Royal family, at the of the day: who cares? They’ll be fine either way.
- odyssey7 2y agoAbout 250 years ago, some of the peasants in the Americas had beef with the royal family, and it changed the world.
- paulryanrogers 2y agoWere they peasants or land owning gentry?
- odyssey7 2y agoIf I remember correctly, there was a “Continental Army.” It wasn’t drawn from the whole continent, but it was enough to fight a whole war with the British army and win.
- brookst 2y agoWell yeah the peasants always do the actual fighting. But the impetus and leadership of the American Revolution was, I believe, mostly landed gentry.
- lesuorac 2y agoAt a time where the British were fighting an actual continental war in Europe lol. But anyways, the real point to be made is that it's not the peasants that revolted. But a bunch of merchants from NE that were unhappy about giving the crown money.
- markus_zhang 2y agoWe are also going back 2 days per week and next year 3 days a week. Only thing I can do is to work from 10-4. Not gonna pay the 1-hour commute * 2 myself.
- underseacables 2y agoWhy do you still work there?
- markus_zhang 2y agoIt's not really easy to switch jobs right now, and TBH most of them ask for Hybrid at least.
- sandworm101 2y ago>> 91% of polled Amazon staff unhappy with RTO Really? I seriously doubt that 91% of people working for Amazon have ever done a single day of work from home. From drivers to warehouse workers, the vast majority of tasks within the Amazon sphere cannot be done via wifi. This is about the office-working elite of corporate Amazon. The actual company as a whole is very different and will continue regardless of how happy/unhappy the corporate office staff claim to be.
- sumtechguy 2y agoThat is a good point. But 'Amazon' is really a few different companies. You have the warehouse people, the store front people, the AWS people, the twitch people, the movie/tv people, etc etc. So 91% is probably just office workers from a particular part of the company. My 'guess' is the people who own the buildings also are near the top in the company. Low capacity means low valuations of property.
- immibis 2y agoI thought that was the point.
- outime 2y agoI don't work in Amazon nor I have any particular information about this (although I have friends working there) but isn't this the intention in most companies that implement RTO against employees' wishes? There's always some collateral damage when virtually irreplaceable people jump ship but this is definitely planned. It's a cheap way to get rid of headcount. It only works when most big companies agree to do it at roughly the same timeline, otherwise people will just switch companies - RTO is too big of a perk to ignore, specially if you have a family.
- threetonesun 2y agoNot Amazon: back in 2021 we were still completely remote, but for new candidates they insisted they be near an office location. A coworker complained that we were missing out on good candidates when our team was already remote, but I told him what was up - over time you get more people who are ok with the idea of being in an office, and then once you hit some critical mass, you just flip the switch and say "everyone back". Which is, of course, what happened. On the other hand, the company never got good at the idea of "remote" work anyway, it was the same stuff you'd do in an office but over Zoom. IMO truly remote companies are not just a physical difference from in-office companies, there's a whole way of doing business shift as well.
- j-bos 2y ago>IMO truly remote companies are not just a physical difference from in-office companies, there's a whole way of doing business shift as well. Physical companies have office shaped brains and poor async communication skills.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- RestlessMind 2y ago> poor async communication skills Without judging whether it's good or bad, I'd say async communication skills are still not the norm. Very few people are good at those. After all, human brain evolved for in-person communication skills. Collaboration over Zoom is so new that we need proper training. Also add poor async management skills, which also is the norm.
- disambiguation 2y agoI mean do businesses generally even consider employee happiness? I feel like they even get off on the browbeating sometimes.
- brookst 2y agoSure they do. If employees are happy it means you’re paying them too much.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jmyeet 2y agoHere's the lesson I hope people learn from this: your employer is not your friend. Why are they doing this now? Because they can. 2-3 years ago when it was a tight job market, Amazon (and every other tech company) was all about remote work. This started out of necessity (ie the pandemic) but it became a way to lure employees who had moved during the pandemic. I think a lot of us deluded ourselves into thinking tech companies were different to any other employer. They are not. You are a cost they want to reduce. RTO will cause a few to quit and the rest to be more compliant. Those who quit are cheaper than a layoff. When there's a layoff (or people quit), they aren't replaced. Why? Their work is redistributed to those who remain. It's more work done at no extra cost. At some point there is more hiring but that's part of the "natural" 5% layoff rate that is now a permanent feature of your employment. It is all about suppressing wages and getting you to do more for the same or less money.
- underseacables 2y agoThis is going to be very controversial, but I think the technology industry of America is very smug. A lot of people will get very angry about not getting to WFH, but then have an issue when McDonalds's drive through is really somebody working from home. Silicon Valley has a hubris problem and it extends throughout the Wfh debate. How dare you make me come into the office, I'm important. I work for Amazon.
- analognoise 2y agoThis is a crab in a boiling pot pulling the other crabs back rather than let them escape. After we all demonstrated increased productivity during Covid, with record profits, everyone is happier and it’s better for the environment… we all have to go in because otherwise we’re somehow smug about our importance? Does that make any sense? This just reads as jealousy to me; not really a good spot to make calls from.
- squillion 2y agoThe can comply or resign. Or strike.
- underseacables 2y agoI think it's worth exploring the interesting psychology behind WFH. If you ask anybody they would say they would want to work from home. Regardless of the efficiency, the job, all of that, WFH in my opinion has more to do with avoiding work than it does actual work. When you are at work, you can't avoid it, but when you are home, you can walk away, pretend, and make your boss think you are working.
- returnInfinity 2y agoyes, but this is still a loss in quality of life for people who work hard.
- sneed_chucker 2y agoI think there's an element of truth to what you're saying, but there's also lots of work avoidance in office as well.
- cooloo 2y agoSo basically you saying manager need to see people in order to know there stuff is working. If someone pretend to work at home he will pretend to work at work.
- Devasta 2y ago>When you are at work, you can't avoid it lol, as if! People fuck about on reddit as much in the office as they do at home, probably more so. If anything, its easier to avoid work in the office: when everyone is working from home there is a renewed interest in metrics and productivity monitoring, in the office you can just hop around the office catching up with people on endless water cooler chats.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y agoHaven't you read HN in the last year or two?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kkfx 2y agoSo why they not decide ALL UNITED an impromptu sudden strike? Not only Amazon but ALL WORKERS able to WFH, together, with a single message: we are the people who made the tech, be against us and you'll get no tech, good luck with pen and paper.
- josefritzishere 2y agoAmazon is going to experience a brain drain and loss of productivity. There are obvious consequences for these sort of ham-handed decisions.
- amazinteresting 2y ago“Decisions like the one from Jassy are a big reason why I don’t want kids. I don’t need others to impose rules that ruin my quality of life.” Long time lurker but had to sign up and comment on this statement made by the amazon worker. The fact that he is not having kids is precisely due to rules imposed by people like jassy. And so do many workers in the western world. The fear of being controlled is just as bad as being controlled. You truly free once the fear, and the actions caused by said fear, are non existant.
- ajma 2y agoI've always considered Blind to be a a source that's almost exclusively people unhappy with their company so the way I'm seeing this poll is "on a website of people unhappy with their employment, 91% are unhappy about the latest decision" or "in today's news, the sky is blue"