6 ms·

Giving T cells extra batteries supercharges them against cancer

193 points by peutetre 2y ago

ugh123 2y ago
Great! When can I buy Mitochondria Supplements at the grocery store? /s
dazzlevolta 2y ago
For what type(s) of cancer does this seem to be promising?
- adamredwoods 2y ago
  Mostly blood cancers. It's not quite there for solid tumors. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/types/immunotherapy/t-cell-transfer-therapy https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/types/immunoth...
alexey-salmin 2y ago
> Intriguingly, Mito+ cells could multiply quickly and pass their extra mitochondria to the new cells. Is this accurate? I thought T cells can't multiply.
- JPLeRouzic 2y ago
  It seems T cells do not continuously divide by mitosis in their mature state but can undergo controlled proliferation when activated by an antigen: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868360/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868360/
euroderf 2y ago
Given the American penchant for productizing anything even vaguely health-related, I expect to soon see on supermarket shelves some sort of "Mitochondria Milkshake", jam-packed with mitochondria.
M95D 2y ago
> Intriguingly, Mito+ cells could multiply quickly and pass their extra mitochondria to the new cells. Isn't that a risk of leukemia? One that could've killed the mice, but after more than the 60 days of the study? But even 60+ days vs. 20 days is better, so...
randito 2y ago
For people who want to learn biochemsistry and subsequently be in awe and the complexity and mechanisms, there's a great beginner book, The Machinery of Life. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6601267-the-machinery-of-life https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6601267-the-machinery-of... I found my way there after an Alan Kay video -- OPSLA 1997 - The computer revolution hasnt happened yet: https://youtu.be/oKg1hTOQXoY?t=1787 https://youtu.be/oKg1hTOQXoY?t=1787 On the subject of awe, here's another from Kurszsegat - The Most Complex Language in the World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPFenJQciw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPFenJQciw
zackmorris 2y ago
Related, a seventh person has been "cured" (article quotes) of HIV/AIDS after a stem cell transplant: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seventh-person-cured-of-hiv-after-stem-cell-transplant/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seventh-person-cu... The donor had 2 copies of the CCR5 gene, which resulted in HIV not being able to enter immune cells (like T cells) as efficiently, giving them time to fight it off.
Zelphyr 2y ago
This is why good quality nutrition is so important. It's like giving all of our cells--not just T cells--extra batteries.
- vaylian 2y ago
  How is this related to the number of mitochondria in a cell?
  - agumonkey 2y ago
    I believe that the opposite is useful, fasting -> autophagy -> improved mitochondrial health (not sure). Maybe that's what parent tried to say.
- tjohns 2y ago
  To be fair, I'd prefer not to give the cancer cells extra batteries.
  - adamredwoods 2y ago
    A common goal, but tumors mutate and bypass a lot of normal cell functions. Keep in mind that when dying cancer patients starve in the end, the tumors don't slow. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/study-unveils-new-way-starve-tumors-death/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/study-unveils-new-way-starve... https://news.feinberg.northwestern.edu/2024/05/02/drug-shows-promise-for-starving-out-cancer-cells/ https://news.feinberg.northwestern.edu/2024/05/02/drug-shows... https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/01/30/starving-cancer-into-submission/ https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/01/30/starving-cancer...
    - alexey-salmin 2y ago
      > Keep in mind that when dying cancer patients starve in the end, the tumors don't slow. That's something I don't understand. If cancer cells grow faster then I suppose they should be more affected by the lack of nutrients. I know that this model is too simplistic to be true, but I don't know what exactly is missing from it.
Laaas 2y ago
> The team cultured BMSCs and T cells together, and after 48 hours found that up to a quarter of the T cells had gained extra mitochondria. The researchers dubbed these juiced up immune cells Mito+. What an incredibly simple idea. Just scale it up.
- gorkish 2y ago
  How many do you have to have before you can start using the Force?
  - tomrod 2y ago
    A more direct reference, though maybe obscure these days, is _Parasite_ _Eve_
  - ImHereToVote 2y ago
    "The midichlorian is the forcehouse of the cell."
  - CoastalCoder 2y ago
    "Whatever the stupid, lazy writers at Disney needed it to be this week." - The Critical Drinker* * I imagine
    - rpmisms 2y ago
      That's probably what he would say. The actual minimum to be able to use the force is a 7000 midichlorian count.
      - politician 2y ago
        I thought it was over 9000.
        rpmisms 2y ago
        Wrong franchise
gl-prod 2y ago
Come on, T cells, you can do it
1970-01-01 2y ago
..in mice
dopylitty 2y ago
>Previous studies have shown that cancer cells can use nanotubes like “tiny tentacles” to slurp up mitochondria from immune cells. Biology is nuts. Regarding messing with T-cells I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell. Usually with these things there's some kind of push and pull between the benefits of something and the drawbacks. Or sometimes it's just whatever works. I know mitochondria can have some negative impacts on cells sometimes by releasing the byproducts of metabolism (reactive oxygen species) or triggering programmed cell death.
- ceedan 2y ago
  > Regarding messing with T-cells I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell. Cells can increase their number of mitochondria in response to things (mitochondrial biogenesis). I don't know anything about how that works out in the immune system, but have read about it related to fat cells and exercise. This was also my first thought, and it seems like "giving them extra batteries" accomplishes the same outcome
- ben_w 2y ago
  > I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell One of my probably-wrong ideas that I can't usefully ask* is if chronic fatigue/post-acute infection syndromes may be due to insufficient mitochondria for whatever reason. * if I ask StackExchange, I'll probably phrase it wrong enough to have it closed; if I ask an LLM then it will probably make something up because if the answer exists at all it is probably behind a paywall, and even if it isn't they do that 10-20% of them time anyway.
  - wizzwizz4 2y ago
    Closure on a Stack Exchange site isn't supposed to be permanent: it just means "this question isn't answerable (by us) yet". Maybe try, and see what happens?
- agumonkey 2y ago
  > Biology is nuts. for this particular case I 100% agree. I grew up to accept a wide range of complexity at the cell level, but this blew through the roof.
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
Incredible result, but my god do I hate this kind of headline.
- kthartic 2y ago
  Why? As a laymen (who knows nothing about "T cells") the analogy helps
phkahler 2y ago
Batteries == Mitochondira So I wondered how one could increase the number of mitochondria and quickly found this nice piece from 2017 about promoting mitochondrial fission in mid-life (ok in fruit flys): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00525-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00525-4 I'm pretty sure maintaining mitochondrial health will help a lot of health problems. They seem to come up every little while in regard to many different pathologies.
- anigbrowl 2y ago
  Completely spitballing here, but if bone marrow cells help charge up mitochondria (as this new study suggests), then strong healthy bones are a good defense against cancer. Resistance training (weightlifting being the most common variety) is well known to improve bone health so maybe this is another reason to practice it.
  - amelius 2y ago
    Maybe the reason elephants don't get more cancer despite their comparatively large cell count.
    - privacyking 2y ago
      They don't get cancer because they have a metric f ton of tumour suppressor genes copies, and we have relatively few and so it's easier for all of ours to get knocked off to form a cancer
- M95D 2y ago
  Or maybe you want to create Parasite Eve? :-)
- rKarpinski 2y ago
  > So I wondered how one could increase the number of mitochondria Lots of Zone-2 training. Inigo San-Milan & George Brooks are the two researchers to look at this for in humans.
aidenn0 2y ago
In America, batteries are have cells. In Soviet Russa^W^W Poorly Written Headlines, cells have batteries.

193 points by peutetre 2y ago

ugh123 2y ago

Great! When can I buy Mitochondria Supplements at the grocery store? /s

dazzlevolta 2y ago

For what type(s) of cancer does this seem to be promising?

adamredwoods 2y ago
Mostly blood cancers. It's not quite there for solid tumors. https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/types/immunotherapy/t-cell-transfer-therapy https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/types/immunoth...

alexey-salmin 2y ago

> Intriguingly, Mito+ cells could multiply quickly and pass their extra mitochondria to the new cells. Is this accurate? I thought T cells can't multiply.

JPLeRouzic 2y ago
It seems T cells do not continuously divide by mitosis in their mature state but can undergo controlled proliferation when activated by an antigen: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868360/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5868360/

euroderf 2y ago

Given the American penchant for productizing anything even vaguely health-related, I expect to soon see on supermarket shelves some sort of "Mitochondria Milkshake", jam-packed with mitochondria.

M95D 2y ago

> Intriguingly, Mito+ cells could multiply quickly and pass their extra mitochondria to the new cells. Isn't that a risk of leukemia? One that could've killed the mice, but after more than the 60 days of the study? But even 60+ days vs. 20 days is better, so...

randito 2y ago

For people who want to learn biochemsistry and subsequently be in awe and the complexity and mechanisms, there's a great beginner book, The Machinery of Life. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6601267-the-machinery-of-life https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6601267-the-machinery-of... I found my way there after an Alan Kay video -- OPSLA 1997 - The computer revolution hasnt happened yet: https://youtu.be/oKg1hTOQXoY?t=1787 https://youtu.be/oKg1hTOQXoY?t=1787 On the subject of awe, here's another from Kurszsegat - The Most Complex Language in the World: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPFenJQciw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPFenJQciw

zackmorris 2y ago

Related, a seventh person has been "cured" (article quotes) of HIV/AIDS after a stem cell transplant: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seventh-person-cured-of-hiv-after-stem-cell-transplant/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/seventh-person-cu... The donor had 2 copies of the CCR5 gene, which resulted in HIV not being able to enter immune cells (like T cells) as efficiently, giving them time to fight it off.

Zelphyr 2y ago

This is why good quality nutrition is so important. It's like giving all of our cells--not just T cells--extra batteries.

vaylian 2y ago
How is this related to the number of mitochondria in a cell?
- agumonkey 2y ago
  I believe that the opposite is useful, fasting -> autophagy -> improved mitochondrial health (not sure). Maybe that's what parent tried to say.
tjohns 2y ago
To be fair, I'd prefer not to give the cancer cells extra batteries.
- adamredwoods 2y ago
  A common goal, but tumors mutate and bypass a lot of normal cell functions. Keep in mind that when dying cancer patients starve in the end, the tumors don't slow. https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/study-unveils-new-way-starve-tumors-death/ https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/study-unveils-new-way-starve... https://news.feinberg.northwestern.edu/2024/05/02/drug-shows-promise-for-starving-out-cancer-cells/ https://news.feinberg.northwestern.edu/2024/05/02/drug-shows... https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/01/30/starving-cancer-into-submission/ https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2023/01/30/starving-cancer...
  - alexey-salmin 2y ago
    > Keep in mind that when dying cancer patients starve in the end, the tumors don't slow. That's something I don't understand. If cancer cells grow faster then I suppose they should be more affected by the lack of nutrients. I know that this model is too simplistic to be true, but I don't know what exactly is missing from it.

Laaas 2y ago

> The team cultured BMSCs and T cells together, and after 48 hours found that up to a quarter of the T cells had gained extra mitochondria. The researchers dubbed these juiced up immune cells Mito+. What an incredibly simple idea. Just scale it up.

gorkish 2y ago
How many do you have to have before you can start using the Force?
- tomrod 2y ago
  A more direct reference, though maybe obscure these days, is _Parasite_ _Eve_
- ImHereToVote 2y ago
  "The midichlorian is the forcehouse of the cell."
- CoastalCoder 2y ago
  "Whatever the stupid, lazy writers at Disney needed it to be this week." - The Critical Drinker* * I imagine
  - rpmisms 2y ago
    That's probably what he would say. The actual minimum to be able to use the force is a 7000 midichlorian count.
    - politician 2y ago
      I thought it was over 9000.
      - rpmisms 2y ago
        Wrong franchise

gl-prod 2y ago

Come on, T cells, you can do it

1970-01-01 2y ago

..in mice

dopylitty 2y ago

>Previous studies have shown that cancer cells can use nanotubes like “tiny tentacles” to slurp up mitochondria from immune cells. Biology is nuts. Regarding messing with T-cells I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell. Usually with these things there's some kind of push and pull between the benefits of something and the drawbacks. Or sometimes it's just whatever works. I know mitochondria can have some negative impacts on cells sometimes by releasing the byproducts of metabolism (reactive oxygen species) or triggering programmed cell death.

ceedan 2y ago
> Regarding messing with T-cells I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell. Cells can increase their number of mitochondria in response to things (mitochondrial biogenesis). I don't know anything about how that works out in the immune system, but have read about it related to fat cells and exercise. This was also my first thought, and it seems like "giving them extra batteries" accomplishes the same outcome
ben_w 2y ago
> I wonder how evolution came up with the current number of mitochondria per cell One of my probably-wrong ideas that I can't usefully ask* is if chronic fatigue/post-acute infection syndromes may be due to insufficient mitochondria for whatever reason. * if I ask StackExchange, I'll probably phrase it wrong enough to have it closed; if I ask an LLM then it will probably make something up because if the answer exists at all it is probably behind a paywall, and even if it isn't they do that 10-20% of them time anyway.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Closure on a Stack Exchange site isn't supposed to be permanent: it just means "this question isn't answerable (by us) yet". Maybe try, and see what happens?
agumonkey 2y ago
> Biology is nuts. for this particular case I 100% agree. I grew up to accept a wide range of complexity at the cell level, but this blew through the roof.

VyseofArcadia 2y ago

Incredible result, but my god do I hate this kind of headline.

kthartic 2y ago
Why? As a laymen (who knows nothing about "T cells") the analogy helps

phkahler 2y ago

Batteries == Mitochondira So I wondered how one could increase the number of mitochondria and quickly found this nice piece from 2017 about promoting mitochondrial fission in mid-life (ok in fruit flys): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00525-4 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-017-00525-4 I'm pretty sure maintaining mitochondrial health will help a lot of health problems. They seem to come up every little while in regard to many different pathologies.

anigbrowl 2y ago
Completely spitballing here, but if bone marrow cells help charge up mitochondria (as this new study suggests), then strong healthy bones are a good defense against cancer. Resistance training (weightlifting being the most common variety) is well known to improve bone health so maybe this is another reason to practice it.
- amelius 2y ago
  Maybe the reason elephants don't get more cancer despite their comparatively large cell count.
  - privacyking 2y ago
    They don't get cancer because they have a metric f ton of tumour suppressor genes copies, and we have relatively few and so it's easier for all of ours to get knocked off to form a cancer
M95D 2y ago
Or maybe you want to create Parasite Eve? :-)
rKarpinski 2y ago
> So I wondered how one could increase the number of mitochondria Lots of Zone-2 training. Inigo San-Milan & George Brooks are the two researchers to look at this for in humans.

aidenn0 2y ago

In America, batteries are have cells. In Soviet Russa^W^W Poorly Written Headlines, cells have batteries.