4 ms·

Popping miracle pills while still eating garbage, and avoiding any physical activity, will kill you alike. Obesity is not a disease, it's a symptom of other iss

by a5c11 2y ago

Popping miracle pills while still eating garbage, and avoiding any physical activity, will kill you alike. Obesity is not a disease, it's a symptom of other issues, like: bad diet, bad habits, mental illness. It's like trying to cure a broken bone with morphine - because it doesn't hurt, it doesn't mean the problem went away.

loeg 2y ago
Actually, obesity is (also) a disease and treating it improves all kinds of outcomes even without other interventions.
tptacek 2y ago
The "miracle pills" work by preventing you from eating garbage. They don't magically make you lose weight; they make you lose appetite, and also (as I understand it) get super sick if you eat garbage.
- Elinvynia 2y ago
  They literally temporary induce gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying), that is why some people may vomit food they ate 2-3 days ago. Fun fact: this side effect can become permanent, even if you stop taking the drug!
  - tptacek 2y ago
    Sounds like a super fun miracle pill people are just taking for funsies.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > literally temporary induce gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying) Can induce. We don't know "the precise prevalence of gastroparesis caused by semaglutide," though we know it's "unusual" [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10874596/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10874596/
- a5c11 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
Daishiman 2y ago
Obesity is a symptom of being constantly exposed to hyper palatable foods that for most people require massive force of will to abstain from them in a way never before seen by humans. Eating crap is bad, but eating less crap is actually far better than obesity from “good” foods.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  Yeah, this "epidemic" isn't a worldwide phenomenon. There's definitely societal factors of environment and lobbying that helped get it to this point. Telling someone to "eat less" is about as helpful as telling someone depressed to "get better".
  - Rinzler89 2y ago
    The question is why aren't people in India, China, Japan, Vietnam, Africa, SE-Asia fat? It's not like hyper palatable foods don't exist in all cultures. Why only some rich western countries with large disposable incomes and cushy lifestyles have a problem with people eating way too much? Why do some people in the west (especially the US) always need to outsource the responsibility of their own bad actions and lifestyle choices to "societal factors and culture"? Am I fat because I'm a lazy pig? No, it's obviously society's and the food's fault lol.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - Rinzler89 2y ago
        What a lazy garbage answer. Would you be OK if I also answered you with an AI generated answer and we just keep going back and forth with AI generated trash? That's why I'm flagging your comment. Either provide an original answer based on your own opinion on the topic so we can have a constructive discussion even if we disagree on it, or don't write anything at all instead of outsourcing your critical thinking and personal opinions to ML bots.
cjbgkagh 2y ago
I think cadence of eating is probably more important than quality, which is not to say that quality is unimportant. I think we just eat too often. I think people were steered away from fasting with the notion that fasting will impair your metabolism - skipping meals used to be quite common.
- corysama 2y ago
  For a long time eating many small meals throughout the day was advised to keep your metabolism high. Looks like that was completely counterproductive… Now the advice is to limit eating to an 8 hour range of the day, and possibly fast for a whole day occasionally to decrease your insulin resistance.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    Many older people have a laugh at fasting as they describe it as young people finding out about skipping meals and calling it a new thing. But such fasting was pretty much successfully stamped out of the culture so it did have to be rediscovered. Fasting was tied to vanity and corporate corrupted science conspired to successfully frame fasting as counter productive and bad for your health. When I was a 8yo child the government sent in health advisors to teach children about low salt and low fat diets that are high in carbs. The two health advisors were the most unhealthy looking people I had seen in my entire life up to that point. One was the fattest person I had ever seen and the other was the skinniest - both looked like they were knocking on deaths door. I wondered if they ate lunch together and how that would look. I figured, as a start, I should do the opposite of whatever these two suggest - I dismissed the food pyramid guidelines and resolved to eat a more traditional diet on the basis that people who ate such a diet looked like they lived longer and healthier lives. One of the many instances that instilled my general mistrust of the government. I would find out later that it was corporate corruption of food science that inspired these teachings and my simple heuristic held me in good stead.
stavros 2y ago
I work for a company that does (among other things) weight loss. I will tell our patients about this immediately, as none of them has ever tried diet or exercise, they just went from being overweight to "might as well shoot myself up with some stuff", thank you for the amazing insight.
- fragmede 2y ago
  Why is it always people feel like this is their moment to shine, and go through the trouble of creating an account, just to say other people shouldn't take medicine to cure what ails them?
  - stavros 2y ago
    Since around a year ago, my go-to answer for this question is now "propaganda", aka "some marketing department somewhere astroturfing".
  - Gibbon1 2y ago
    There is always this unshakable belief that whatever process causes people to gain weight is totally reversible with some gumption and will power.
    - ddmf 2y ago
      Absolutely, and there is a very noticeable divide between people for whom exercise and CICO work: "just eat less and exercise more, bro" - and those, like me, where you will absolutely try anything and everything for many years with little affect until you eventually give in and try something that finally kills that little voice that appears on waking that constantly tells you that you want food, need food, need this specific food.
DrScientist 2y ago
I tend to agree - much more needs to be done to tackle poor nutrition - however just like controlled use of morphine in serious pain situations - they do have there place. The key is to use them as a catalyst, rather than a crutch. So I would only allow them to be prescribed in the cases of very serious obesity as part of a plan than moves them on to diet and exercise.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
fragmede 2y ago
> It's like trying to cure a broken bone with morphine it's not like that. it's like trying to cure obesity by having fat people eat less, because that's what it is.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
mattmanser 2y ago
Doesn't work like that. Firstly, you can't eat junk when you're on this stuff, it makes you feel really sick. So you're spectacularly wrong about that. Having taken it myself, what it actually did was fix my fuel gauge. It stopped me craving high-carb food when I was already full. I felt what other people had described as feeling full for the first time in over a decade. On the other hand, the side effects can be horrid. Be careful taking this stuff. It is easy to get dehydrated, drink plenty of fluids. So stop your high-horsing and I say this emphatically, go away. Never, ever, say that again. And I'm being deliberately harsh here because people like you are part of the problem. You are not helping. We've tried guilt shaming people for decades now and IT DOES NOT WORK. It is actually some sort of problem with the body. Commonly known as a disease. I now KNOW that I'm not weak or without willpower. I KNOW you are wrong. Whatever crap a scientist came up with and put in high carb food, that now infests all our food, destroys the body's ability to feel full on a portion of the population. Before this I have tried, and stuck to for long periods, low carb, calorie counting, lots of exercise. Didn't work. Wegovy was a true eye opener that something's wrong with my "sated" and "full" body fuel indicators. I couldn't stay on it as it was making me feel too ill, but even being on it for 6 months seems to have help change my 'baseline'. It doesn't work for everyone, it can make some people really ill, and I did it a bit too casually and it is in reality strong stuff so I would definitely recommend talking to a doctor first.

by a5c11 2y ago

loeg 2y ago

Actually, obesity is (also) a disease and treating it improves all kinds of outcomes even without other interventions.

tptacek 2y ago

The "miracle pills" work by preventing you from eating garbage. They don't magically make you lose weight; they make you lose appetite, and also (as I understand it) get super sick if you eat garbage.

Elinvynia 2y ago
They literally temporary induce gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying), that is why some people may vomit food they ate 2-3 days ago. Fun fact: this side effect can become permanent, even if you stop taking the drug!
- tptacek 2y ago
  Sounds like a super fun miracle pill people are just taking for funsies.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > literally temporary induce gastroparesis (slow stomach emptying) Can induce. We don't know "the precise prevalence of gastroparesis caused by semaglutide," though we know it's "unusual" [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10874596/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10874596/
a5c11 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

Daishiman 2y ago

Obesity is a symptom of being constantly exposed to hyper palatable foods that for most people require massive force of will to abstain from them in a way never before seen by humans. Eating crap is bad, but eating less crap is actually far better than obesity from “good” foods.

johnnyanmac 2y ago
Yeah, this "epidemic" isn't a worldwide phenomenon. There's definitely societal factors of environment and lobbying that helped get it to this point. Telling someone to "eat less" is about as helpful as telling someone depressed to "get better".
- Rinzler89 2y ago
  The question is why aren't people in India, China, Japan, Vietnam, Africa, SE-Asia fat? It's not like hyper palatable foods don't exist in all cultures. Why only some rich western countries with large disposable incomes and cushy lifestyles have a problem with people eating way too much? Why do some people in the west (especially the US) always need to outsource the responsibility of their own bad actions and lifestyle choices to "societal factors and culture"? Am I fat because I'm a lazy pig? No, it's obviously society's and the food's fault lol.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - Rinzler89 2y ago
      What a lazy garbage answer. Would you be OK if I also answered you with an AI generated answer and we just keep going back and forth with AI generated trash? That's why I'm flagging your comment. Either provide an original answer based on your own opinion on the topic so we can have a constructive discussion even if we disagree on it, or don't write anything at all instead of outsourcing your critical thinking and personal opinions to ML bots.

cjbgkagh 2y ago

I think cadence of eating is probably more important than quality, which is not to say that quality is unimportant. I think we just eat too often. I think people were steered away from fasting with the notion that fasting will impair your metabolism - skipping meals used to be quite common.

corysama 2y ago
For a long time eating many small meals throughout the day was advised to keep your metabolism high. Looks like that was completely counterproductive… Now the advice is to limit eating to an 8 hour range of the day, and possibly fast for a whole day occasionally to decrease your insulin resistance.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  Many older people have a laugh at fasting as they describe it as young people finding out about skipping meals and calling it a new thing. But such fasting was pretty much successfully stamped out of the culture so it did have to be rediscovered. Fasting was tied to vanity and corporate corrupted science conspired to successfully frame fasting as counter productive and bad for your health. When I was a 8yo child the government sent in health advisors to teach children about low salt and low fat diets that are high in carbs. The two health advisors were the most unhealthy looking people I had seen in my entire life up to that point. One was the fattest person I had ever seen and the other was the skinniest - both looked like they were knocking on deaths door. I wondered if they ate lunch together and how that would look. I figured, as a start, I should do the opposite of whatever these two suggest - I dismissed the food pyramid guidelines and resolved to eat a more traditional diet on the basis that people who ate such a diet looked like they lived longer and healthier lives. One of the many instances that instilled my general mistrust of the government. I would find out later that it was corporate corruption of food science that inspired these teachings and my simple heuristic held me in good stead.

stavros 2y ago

I work for a company that does (among other things) weight loss. I will tell our patients about this immediately, as none of them has ever tried diet or exercise, they just went from being overweight to "might as well shoot myself up with some stuff", thank you for the amazing insight.

fragmede 2y ago
Why is it always people feel like this is their moment to shine, and go through the trouble of creating an account, just to say other people shouldn't take medicine to cure what ails them?
- stavros 2y ago
  Since around a year ago, my go-to answer for this question is now "propaganda", aka "some marketing department somewhere astroturfing".
- Gibbon1 2y ago
  There is always this unshakable belief that whatever process causes people to gain weight is totally reversible with some gumption and will power.
  - ddmf 2y ago
    Absolutely, and there is a very noticeable divide between people for whom exercise and CICO work: "just eat less and exercise more, bro" - and those, like me, where you will absolutely try anything and everything for many years with little affect until you eventually give in and try something that finally kills that little voice that appears on waking that constantly tells you that you want food, need food, need this specific food.

DrScientist 2y ago

I tend to agree - much more needs to be done to tackle poor nutrition - however just like controlled use of morphine in serious pain situations - they do have there place. The key is to use them as a catalyst, rather than a crutch. So I would only allow them to be prescribed in the cases of very serious obesity as part of a plan than moves them on to diet and exercise.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

fragmede 2y ago

> It's like trying to cure a broken bone with morphine it's not like that. it's like trying to cure obesity by having fat people eat less, because that's what it is.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

mattmanser 2y ago

Doesn't work like that. Firstly, you can't eat junk when you're on this stuff, it makes you feel really sick. So you're spectacularly wrong about that. Having taken it myself, what it actually did was fix my fuel gauge. It stopped me craving high-carb food when I was already full. I felt what other people had described as feeling full for the first time in over a decade. On the other hand, the side effects can be horrid. Be careful taking this stuff. It is easy to get dehydrated, drink plenty of fluids. So stop your high-horsing and I say this emphatically, go away. Never, ever, say that again. And I'm being deliberately harsh here because people like you are part of the problem. You are not helping. We've tried guilt shaming people for decades now and IT DOES NOT WORK. It is actually some sort of problem with the body. Commonly known as a disease. I now KNOW that I'm not weak or without willpower. I KNOW you are wrong. Whatever crap a scientist came up with and put in high carb food, that now infests all our food, destroys the body's ability to feel full on a portion of the population. Before this I have tried, and stuck to for long periods, low carb, calorie counting, lots of exercise. Didn't work. Wegovy was a true eye opener that something's wrong with my "sated" and "full" body fuel indicators. I couldn't stay on it as it was making me feel too ill, but even being on it for 6 months seems to have help change my 'baseline'. It doesn't work for everyone, it can make some people really ill, and I did it a bit too casually and it is in reality strong stuff so I would definitely recommend talking to a doctor first.