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The best thing about articles describing "technology that would be incredible except for the one obvious and insurmountable-with-current-technology problem that

The best thing about articles describing "technology that would be incredible except for the one obvious and insurmountable-with-current-technology problem that makes it absolutely useless and is the reason that nobody else did this" is the inevitable point where they admit that it's absolutely useless because of the obvious and insurmountable problem but that the team is totally working on solving it any day now. In this case the problem is that it only carries 3kg and has almost no battery life, but the team is working on another drone that follows it around and changes the batteries when they run out, so eventually for the minimal cost of two of these and like a million batteries you can carry 3kg indefinitely. Or you could just carry it with your hands for free.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
I think of it as betting that antigravity is just around the corner. Not a bet I'd make, but I do admire the gumption.
regularfry 2y ago
I would think that the fact that the downdraft will make this completely useless in any environment that has any small objects untethered within about a 2m radius also falls into that category.
sandworm101 2y ago
>> only carries 3kg and has almost no battery life Don't worry. They will used beamed microwave power delivery. The operator will just have to wear a 2.5kg lead apron to protect themselves. When used for food delivery, the power delivery beam will also act as an effective heat lamp.
- CommieBobDole 2y ago
  With a powerful enough microwave beam, you could lift and propel the thing through surface ablation and wouldn't need the propellers at all.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    If we're going for line-of-sight, a more realistic solution would be to ditch the battery and hook it up to mains (or a portable generator); see my longer reply upthread.
  - knodi123 2y ago
    Good god, I nearly did a spit take. That's the most irresponsible and horrifying tech idea I've ever heard. That's great, but we can do better- what about Project Orion but for local food delivery? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...
TeMPOraL 2y ago
The problem is surmountable in narrow cases in a quite easy, if for some reason non-obvious, way: ditch the battery and plug it in to AC power. This would also give it extra carrying capacity, bringing it up to, say, to 10kg. Now this still isn't much, and it would be compromising stability a bit (especially outdoors) due to reduced inertia, but I can think of couple narrow applications: - Actually carry stuff up the stairs. Sure, lifts and wheelchair lifts already exist, but not everywhere. If the proliferation of cars over the last century taught us anything, it's that worse solutions that require less or zero construction changes on-site win. Classic "worse is better". - Ferry light cargo across long but thin stretches of impassable terrain. Think military or EMTs moving supplies back and forth over a river, construction crew moving small stuff up the steep mountainside. Sure, there exist solutions for this already, but they're bulkier and more expensive to set up; for the drone, all you need is a generator and a long power cable. (Yes, I'm stretching credulity here a bit. Yes, this particular product makes little sense as-is, but the idea of a stabilized drone platform isn't, in general, entirely bad.) Side question: what if they replaced the batteries and electric motors with gas tanks and an ICE? Maybe that could give it more useful carrying capacity, at the expense of noise and being unsexy to modern environmental sensibilities.
- stackghost 2y ago
  >Side question: what if they replaced the batteries and electric motors with gas tanks and an ICE? Congratulations, you have invented the helicopter.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    I know. Specifically, I reinvented gasoline-powered model RC helicopters, that were all the rage before battery-powered quadcopters became a thing, and scaled them up. I.e. I don't recall anyone trying a "palletrone"-like thing with an ICE-based platform, despite the tech for it being mature for like 50 years or so.
    - mschuster91 2y ago
      > I.e. I don't recall anyone trying a "palletrone"-like thing with an ICE-based platform, despite the tech for it being mature for like 50 years or so. You need far greater reaction speeds for a viable quadcopter to remain stable than an ICE, much less a turbojet engine, is capable of. There has been some project featured on here, I think it was a single-prop chopper, kept hovering and centered just by minutely controlling exactly when torque was created by the motor. Absolutely f..ing nuts.
Aeolun 2y ago
I think, besides the battery issues, that a large problem with something that is powerful enough to carry a respectable weight, is that it is also powerful enough to lop your arm off if you’re not careful.
atoav 2y ago
I really wish such journalists (or their editors) would have to spend a day using that stuff. Any professional who moves stuff around will have their prefered helping technology, be it wagons or a hand cart or whatever, but that stuff? Unless your usecase is to deliver a sixpack of beer across a minefield any other solution will work better and that includes putting your stuff on a tablecloth and dragging it across the floor
akavi 2y ago
The other thing is, is if there was demand for load-carrying, rough terrain compatible robots, why aren't legged robots like Boston Dynamics' making a dent in the market? They're strictly superior than the hoverbot on battery life and carrying capacity, are there other downsides I'm missing? Or is there just plain not a market for this thing?
Log_out_ 2y ago
its singularity speculation .if the battery gets better, the power source gets smaller or a smaller lift generator gets developed you might be able to exercise upwards lift from the next tesla via patents .
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
The funny thing is that (power density) isn't even the only single obvious and insurmountable problem. What about: 1. The fact that carrying larger loads would make this extremely noisy, making it nearly impossible to use anywhere indoors. 2. Similarly, as another commenter said, if you scaled up the load capacity, then you'd basically be creating a hurricane in any enclosed space. 3. Thus, if all you are left with is outdoor applications, this device compares negatively in nearly every way with a standard delivery aerial drone.
solfox 2y ago
> that the team is totally working on solving it any day now. With just a itty bitty bit more funding!
Kon-Peki 2y ago
> In this case the problem is that it only carries 3kg and has almost no battery life, but the team is working on another drone that follows it around and changes the batteries when they run out We do that in America too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray
piltdownman 2y ago
The Irish company Manna have already completed 40,000 fast-food deliveries with a drone that carries 3.5 kg (~8 lb) with ~30,000 cm3. It can fly between 50-65m (165-215ft) above ground and lowers to a height of 15m (50ft) to deliver food via a tether. It achieves a top speed of up to 80 km/h. They posit that one employee can oversee several drones and therefore realize twenty deliveries per hour, ten times as much as a delivery person can achieve on the road in the same time frame https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.dronewatch.eu/bobby-healy-manna-drone-delivery-we-get-almost-no-complaints/ https://www.dronewatch.eu/bobby-healy-manna-drone-delivery-w... For industrial use, we have huge amounts of copy-cats like the HZH Y100 which is a 6-axis, 12-wing transport drone with a maximum load of 100kg and a 90-minute endurance.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

I think of it as betting that antigravity is just around the corner. Not a bet I'd make, but I do admire the gumption.

regularfry 2y ago

I would think that the fact that the downdraft will make this completely useless in any environment that has any small objects untethered within about a 2m radius also falls into that category.

sandworm101 2y ago

>> only carries 3kg and has almost no battery life Don't worry. They will used beamed microwave power delivery. The operator will just have to wear a 2.5kg lead apron to protect themselves. When used for food delivery, the power delivery beam will also act as an effective heat lamp.

CommieBobDole 2y ago
With a powerful enough microwave beam, you could lift and propel the thing through surface ablation and wouldn't need the propellers at all.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  If we're going for line-of-sight, a more realistic solution would be to ditch the battery and hook it up to mains (or a portable generator); see my longer reply upthread.
- knodi123 2y ago
  Good god, I nearly did a spit take. That's the most irresponsible and horrifying tech idea I've ever heard. That's great, but we can do better- what about Project Orion but for local food delivery? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propuls...

TeMPOraL 2y ago

The problem is surmountable in narrow cases in a quite easy, if for some reason non-obvious, way: ditch the battery and plug it in to AC power. This would also give it extra carrying capacity, bringing it up to, say, to 10kg. Now this still isn't much, and it would be compromising stability a bit (especially outdoors) due to reduced inertia, but I can think of couple narrow applications: - Actually carry stuff up the stairs. Sure, lifts and wheelchair lifts already exist, but not everywhere. If the proliferation of cars over the last century taught us anything, it's that worse solutions that require less or zero construction changes on-site win. Classic "worse is better". - Ferry light cargo across long but thin stretches of impassable terrain. Think military or EMTs moving supplies back and forth over a river, construction crew moving small stuff up the steep mountainside. Sure, there exist solutions for this already, but they're bulkier and more expensive to set up; for the drone, all you need is a generator and a long power cable. (Yes, I'm stretching credulity here a bit. Yes, this particular product makes little sense as-is, but the idea of a stabilized drone platform isn't, in general, entirely bad.) Side question: what if they replaced the batteries and electric motors with gas tanks and an ICE? Maybe that could give it more useful carrying capacity, at the expense of noise and being unsexy to modern environmental sensibilities.

stackghost 2y ago
>Side question: what if they replaced the batteries and electric motors with gas tanks and an ICE? Congratulations, you have invented the helicopter.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  I know. Specifically, I reinvented gasoline-powered model RC helicopters, that were all the rage before battery-powered quadcopters became a thing, and scaled them up. I.e. I don't recall anyone trying a "palletrone"-like thing with an ICE-based platform, despite the tech for it being mature for like 50 years or so.
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > I.e. I don't recall anyone trying a "palletrone"-like thing with an ICE-based platform, despite the tech for it being mature for like 50 years or so. You need far greater reaction speeds for a viable quadcopter to remain stable than an ICE, much less a turbojet engine, is capable of. There has been some project featured on here, I think it was a single-prop chopper, kept hovering and centered just by minutely controlling exactly when torque was created by the motor. Absolutely f..ing nuts.

Aeolun 2y ago

I think, besides the battery issues, that a large problem with something that is powerful enough to carry a respectable weight, is that it is also powerful enough to lop your arm off if you’re not careful.

atoav 2y ago

I really wish such journalists (or their editors) would have to spend a day using that stuff. Any professional who moves stuff around will have their prefered helping technology, be it wagons or a hand cart or whatever, but that stuff? Unless your usecase is to deliver a sixpack of beer across a minefield any other solution will work better and that includes putting your stuff on a tablecloth and dragging it across the floor

akavi 2y ago

The other thing is, is if there was demand for load-carrying, rough terrain compatible robots, why aren't legged robots like Boston Dynamics' making a dent in the market? They're strictly superior than the hoverbot on battery life and carrying capacity, are there other downsides I'm missing? Or is there just plain not a market for this thing?

Log_out_ 2y ago

its singularity speculation .if the battery gets better, the power source gets smaller or a smaller lift generator gets developed you might be able to exercise upwards lift from the next tesla via patents .

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

The funny thing is that (power density) isn't even the only single obvious and insurmountable problem. What about: 1. The fact that carrying larger loads would make this extremely noisy, making it nearly impossible to use anywhere indoors. 2. Similarly, as another commenter said, if you scaled up the load capacity, then you'd basically be creating a hurricane in any enclosed space. 3. Thus, if all you are left with is outdoor applications, this device compares negatively in nearly every way with a standard delivery aerial drone.

solfox 2y ago

> that the team is totally working on solving it any day now. With just a itty bitty bit more funding!

Kon-Peki 2y ago

> In this case the problem is that it only carries 3kg and has almost no battery life, but the team is working on another drone that follows it around and changes the batteries when they run out We do that in America too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_MQ-25_Stingray

piltdownman 2y ago

The Irish company Manna have already completed 40,000 fast-food deliveries with a drone that carries 3.5 kg (~8 lb) with ~30,000 cm3. It can fly between 50-65m (165-215ft) above ground and lowers to a height of 15m (50ft) to deliver food via a tether. It achieves a top speed of up to 80 km/h. They posit that one employee can oversee several drones and therefore realize twenty deliveries per hour, ten times as much as a delivery person can achieve on the road in the same time frame https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.manna.aero/ https://www.dronewatch.eu/bobby-healy-manna-drone-delivery-we-get-almost-no-complaints/ https://www.dronewatch.eu/bobby-healy-manna-drone-delivery-w... For industrial use, we have huge amounts of copy-cats like the HZH Y100 which is a 6-axis, 12-wing transport drone with a maximum load of 100kg and a 90-minute endurance.