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Love of cargo bikes is changing how we deliver goods in our cities
- Muromec 2y agoRenting a cargo bike is my default option to haul something bigish from ikea nowdays. Rich people love them, as you can put all your three kids and go haul them to school 300 meters away much easier in this thingy compared to both car and walking.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoWhat are the challenges facing more rapid uptake and availability of cargo bikes for the general public in your opinion?
- _Microft 2y agoI‘d wager it‘s cost.
- xnx 2y agoWhere do apartment dwellers store them?
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoProbably depends on the crime in the city and location. Here (Vienna, Austria) a lot of people just store them outside. We store ours on one of the parking spots we have (since we only have one car) together with some of our other stuff. They do take space, but I'm not sure if that is the main challenge with cargo bikes. Personally I think it comes down to cost and availability. They cost around 5000 Euro if not more, and they take sometimes months to be delivered.
- rglullis 2y agoIn Europe? In the building's designated areas for bicycles, or you just use the bike share systems like cargoroo.
- leipert 2y agoWe rented a parking spot in our underground garage.
- Muromec 2y agoThey don't. You need to be rich, then you keep it chained near your front door or in backyard or wherever. You can't put them into the bike shed and people who have them also have a car, so parking spot is out too.
- masklinn 2y agoSome flats have boxes or full garages in the basement.
- abyssin 2y agoInitial cost (6000 euros buys you a decent second-hand car), storage cost (to protect it against weather and thieves), maintenance cost (bike mechanics get paid the same as car mechanics), limited usefulness. I have owned multiple cargo bikes and I believe they're a status thing.
- bikezen 2y agoThe mechanics may be paid the same, but the maintenance efforts are exponentially different, thus also exponentially reducing the costs. You need to remove zero parts to do just about all forms of maintenance on a bike, truing a wheel is probably the most effort part and thats still less time than a typical oil change.
- abyssin 2y agoNot sure about the exponential part. Sure the maintenance is different, but with a bicycle it has to happen more often, and the parts aren’t as cheap as one might expect. It’s cheaper, but it has to be balanced with the limited utility of the bicycle.
- Doxin 2y ago> but with a bicycle it has to happen more often This depends heavily on the bicycle. If you get a bicycle with hub gears and coaster brakes you'll likely be riding it until the chain literally breaks in half. If on the other hand you get a bicycle with a derailleur you'll be fiddling with it every quarter if you want to keep it operating nicely. I got a new bicycle two years ago. It hasn't had any maintenance other than inflating the tires and replacing the bell because nincompoops keep pulling the hammer off when it's parked. Still rides like new.
- SmellTheGlove 2y agoI'm in Seattle - I have a car and an e-bike. What I've found is that you can surprisingly get to many places using trails. For instance, you can get to the Costco in south seattle from places like Ballard or Interbay largely on separated lanes. The thing that stops me from getting a larger bike and doing that is the fact that I have no idea where to park my bike securely if I need to make another stop. Your shit is getting stolen in this city if you're not careful.
- Doxin 2y agoIdeally you'd have at minimum a frame lock, and a beefy chain lock. When using the chain lock make sure the chain passes through the rear wheel and the read triangle of the frame, then back the other way outside the triangle of the frame. Lock the chain to something immovable. Ideally park somewhere there's other bikes as well. Personally I've added a motion activated alarm on top of that, but that's mostly because I got tired of people fiddling with my bike and breaking shit. Doing the above should get most thieves to try and steal the next bike over instead of yours. Still might be worth getting theft insurance though, depending on how bad it is where you live.
- pjerem 2y agoIt’s 100% that they cost as much as a decent used car. Also they are easier to steal and also I wouldn’t trust my insurance in case it’s stolen. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to buy and use one. But it’s still too expensive to be a rational investment, especially if you are on a budget.
- pg314 2y ago> It’s 100% that they cost as much as a decent used car. Apples and oranges. You can get cargo bikes second hand too.
- Muromec 2y agoThey are pretty useless unless e-powered, so the cost is like 5k upwards and it's kinda only useful on occasion. They are big and you have to store them somewhere. They are also kinda single-use once in a while. So target user groups are either deliveries, where it's a special kind of cargo bike or above mentioned rich people who have a spot on a pavement to park them. You don't really need a cargo bike, but it's a nice to have.
- vidanay 2y ago> haul them to school 300 meters away ?
- rychco 2y ago(Clearly not North America)
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoSpeak for your rural or suburban self. I’m in North America, kids school is 420m from home.
- vidanay 2y agoSpeak for your dense population area self. 418m gets me to the end of my rural driveway. Kids school is 8.3 miles (13.4km).
- Muromec 2y agoYes ?
- Toutouxc 2y ago
- bdjsiqoocwk 2y agoDont these things have high labor per kilogram-kilometer costs? How would they ever be competitive? What am I missing? Edit: > Another study in Brussels looking at the operational advantages of cargo bikes over vans found that when you factor in insurance, maintenance, depreciation, and energy costs, vans have five to 10 times higher expenses per parcel. I'm skeptical. I would imagine that the driver cost is the largest driver.
- janwas 2y agoIn European inner cities, it can be faster to get around on bikes.
- docdeek 2y agoThis seems to be the report mentioned: https://www.larryvsharry.com/media/wysiwyg/cms_pages/Stories/Last_Mile_Delivery/Data-driven_Evaluation_of_Cargo_Bike_Delivery_Performance_in_Brussels.pdf https://www.larryvsharry.com/media/wysiwyg/cms_pages/Stories...
- abyssin 2y agoLarry vs Harry is the producer of Bullitt bikes. They're cool, but it's fair to say they're probably biased.
- abyssin 2y agoI'm also skeptical. I worked for a delivery company using cargo bikes. These things were needing repairs all the time. Employees were passionate about bicycles and accepting a very low wage. The bikes themselves are expensive. In specific situations they make sense because they're narrow and quiet, but I don't believe they're cheap to operate.
- Vinnl 2y agoFor last-mile deliveries in dense cities with good infrastructure, cars have to make detours and spend time stuck in traffic, I imagine. Plus, you don't need a driver's licence for a cargo bike, so you can also hire younger (cheaper) delivery drivers, I guess.
- rich_sasha 2y agoI love my cargo bike, still I can't help but smile when I think about how we're complaining about too-big-cars and are switching to bigger and bigger bikes instead. For good reason but still... An electric cargo bike is a long shot from its protoplast.
- jeffbee 2y agoAs a person who was way ahead of the trend in America, having had a (non-electric) family cargo bike 15 years ago, I have come to agree. When you see any kind of vehicle, whether a pickup truck, SUV, or cargo bike, just try to imagine what will happen if the most clueless person you know buys one. These days in my town the bike parents ride their ebikes right up to every place and leave them there, so a playground or park is totally surrounded by parked bikes now. Say what you will about SUV drivers, but at least they had to leave them parked on the street, instead of parking them on the actual park. It is easy to think it's going to work when only the 1% most socially conscious people are riding them, but you have to create a system that continues to work well even when average clueless American is participating.
- morsch 2y agoContinues?
- patall 2y agoI see it the other way around. Yes, I am annoyed by some cyclists (like the lady with a cargo bike carring a full crate of beer trying to get it in the tram). But then, I always imagine that the same person could (and would instead) have been in a 3t tank. People exist and often do stupid things, so I prefer for them to do this in the least destructive way.
- duskwuff 2y ago> I love my cargo bike, still I can't help but smile when I think about how we're complaining about too-big-cars and are switching to bigger and bigger bikes instead. At least there's a bit more friction involved (some of it literal!) in choosing to ride an unnecessarily large bicycle.
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoWe (family of 5) live in Vienna and we're pretty multi modal. We have an annual ticket for the public transport system, have a minivan, a cargo bike and individual bikes for all of us. On top of that kick scooters. So money is really not an issue when it comes to picking the right vehicle since we have pretty much all the options. Within the city, the cargo bike and the kick scooters by far get the most utilization. The kick scooters in part because they are super useful to speed up the way to public transport. But man the cargo bike is just a whole different game. Yes, it's a bit heavy but you can use pretty much all infrastructure with it and you can haul a lot with it. Particularly in the summer time when we go to the pools or other activities it's a no brainer. Parking is not an issue, neither is being stuck in traffic. The cost obviously is a massive hurdle for most families probably, and so is over night parking for many. Within the city we have more kilometers on the cargo bike than the car by at least double.
- k8sToGo 2y agoWhat are you primarily using during winter and rainy months?
- the_mitsuhiko 2y agoSince our older kids go to school themselves I don't have to cycle them any more. The last few years I dropped two kids of at day care by cargo bike regardless of weather. The alternative is basically public transport because the combination of traffic and lack of parking locations in the city make dropping them off by car impossible for me. So I basically have the choice of cycling in the rain (the kids are rain protected in the bike anyways) and taking the bus and subway. However at either one of those sides I need to walk a bit anyways and then the kids also get wet. So despite potentially wet and snowy weather, it's still the best option.
- tda 2y agoAll bakfiets models come with (optional) rain tents, so young can kids stay dry and out of the wind. Cold is usually more of an issue than rain on longer trips. In a bit of snow, I feel a lot safer on my bike than in a car. Just adjust speed and do controlled braking to feel the grip (or lack thereof). It helps a lot that I live in a flat country (Netherlands), as snow/ice and slopes are a really bad combination with cycling.
- cosud 2y agoThey are stil very expensive where I live(NL). EUR 4K+ on a cargobike or renting one for 150+ per month is A LOT for a normal family with 1-2 children. To add to that recently there's been a case in NL where more affordable manufacturer was deliberately selling cargo bikes with frames of sub-par quality[1][2]. I've been renting cargo bikes from two competing companies in Amsterdam (cargoroo and baqme) one offering super premium bikes bosch motors and the other with cheapie bafang motors. The build quality and riding experience is night and day. Owing a cargo bike to me is more a life style choice or just virtue signalling. It's hard to justify the up front cost. Choosing cheaper options is risky since the maintenance cost is high or just unsafe. [1] https://www.nvwa.nl/nieuws-en-media/nieuws/2024/02/14/nvwa-babboe-moet-handel-bakfietsen-staken https://www.nvwa.nl/nieuws-en-media/nieuws/2024/02/14/nvwa-b... [2] https://www.nvwa.nl/nieuws-en-media/actuele-onderwerpen/frequently-asked-questions-about-babboe-cargo-bikes https://www.nvwa.nl/nieuws-en-media/actuele-onderwerpen/freq...
- timClicks 2y agoWe justified the upfront cost by treating ours as a cheap second car, rather than as a very expensive bike. It's been an incredibly positive experience for our family.
- morsch 2y agoSpending 4000 EUR on a bike is all kinds of crazy, but nobody bats an eye at people spending 20k on a car.
- Ekaros 2y ago4000 seems high when you can get some type scooter or mobility scooter type of thing in that range... And some of them even have protection from rain.
- rhombocombus 2y agoAnd then nobody goes on to bat eyes at the galling maintenance costs, insurance, registration, or taxes on cars, but yeah $4k (or euro or gbp) for an e bike seems like a stupid idea to people for some reason. I think it’s either bad marketing on the part of the ebike folks or pernicious effort on the part of car manufacturers.
- davidw 2y agoI have RadRunner Plus with the big basket and bag they sell as accessories, and I do pretty much all our family's grocery shopping with it.
- upcycleist 2y agoI live in Leipzig, Germany, there are more and more cargo bikes for parcel delivery and families are often seen with bikes to get to the lake or to go to the parks. Nevertheless I think cargo bikes have a big con, which is the price as well as their "single" use. That's why I personally prefer trailers, they are cheaper, not coupled to the one bike to function, and there are some which can be stored very good in a small flat. Somehow they are not financially supported in Germany, what makes me sad.
- bgnn 2y agoGermany seems to only support the auto industry.
- talkingtab 2y agoThe most interesting part of the website is that first it asks for permission to use cookies. "we and our 864 partners" 864!!!!? Who knew? In the US maybe it is 200,000 partners? And be sure to click on the "learn more" button to find out all the information that will be collected, how information will be stored on your device, etc. The article itself was in my opinion uninteresting. Written by someone in high school? When you take out all the links, and click-ables there is less content than the comments on hacker news!! I have to say the comments here are much more informative and interesting. And right now this is the TOP article on hacker news. Double WOW!!! The internet today! Who knew? This is hilarious!
- jdietrich 2y ago>The most interesting part of the website is that first it asks for permission to use cookies. It's a legal requirement in the EU.
- baybayblonde 2y agoHey Jdietrich, I posted a while ago about being banned of Airbnb and you suggested to use GDPR to make a request to the DPO. It worked, the account is "unbanned". Many thanks for you suggestion and vive le GDPR (writing you here because my original post was flagged so no more comment can be added).
- Doxin 2y agoIt's a legal requirement only if you use cookies for nefarious nonsense like ad tracking. You're allowed to store login cookies etc just fine with no need for a popup and similar purposes.
- consteval 2y agoThe MBAs who are drafting these requirements don't know that. They're still confused on how double chocolate chunk is making its way into a web browser. They'll always just prioritize marketing, so put the banners and who cares.
- throw0101c 2y agoDoes anyone have experience on two- versus three-wheeled cargo bikes? When he made a video on the topic, Jason Slaughter of Not Just Bikes preferred two wheels with the big box upfront (bakfiets): * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA&t=2m55s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQhzEnWCgHA&t=2m55s * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike#Long_john_bicycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike#Long_john_bicycle
- rocqua 2y agoI've only done the three wheeled one, and that is a never again. It's like training wheels. You can't lean in a turn. Besides that, the steering was weird because there wasn't an axle, instead the entire middle of the frame was articulated. That thing was a slightly faster and more ergonomic wheelbarrow, not a bike.
- pg314 2y agoYes, I own both. The three-wheeled ones take some getting used to. You can't take turns at a high speed or you'll tip over. They are nice when you are standing still, because they stay up-right. They are easier to turn-around on foot: the front wheels are closer to the centre of mass, so you can easily lift the back wheel and swing it around. The two-wheeled ones are faster, and handle more like a normal bike. When fully loaded (100+ kg) they take some effort getting them on the stand. They are clunkier to turn around. I prefer the two-wheeled ones.
- Doxin 2y agoThe risk with the three-wheeled ones is that they are perfectly stable right until they aren't. You're either upright or on your ass. The steeper you turn the smaller the stable area gets, even when going slow. The two wheeled ones have more of a gradient. You'll feel it when it starts to go so you can course-correct. The nice thing about the three wheeled ones is you don't need to use a kickstand, though the two-wheelers tend to have really solid kickstands.
- whazor 2y agoThere are bigger cargo bikes like these: https://eavcargo.com/ https://eavcargo.com/ Think about the psychics, you remove all the steel of a delivery truck and replace it with plastic. Of course its going to be more efficient. Since it is like a bike, it doesn’t need a roll cage. With last mile delivery, you don’t really care about the top speed of a vehicle. But how fast it can accelerate. With an electric motor and regenerative brakes, you could compete easily with an electric van. After all, there is less weight to propel.
- rickydroll 2y agoYes, think about physics. How hard can you grab your brakes and shed momentum when stopping an e-cargo bike traveling at 25-30 mph and with 750 pounds of cargo plus human? When do bike tires lose their grip on dry, wet, icy, and sandy roads? I've driven trucks with 1000-3000lb loads. I understand how handling changes between vehicle types (different masses and 2 vs. 4 vs 6 wheels). My experience is why I advocate for specialized training and licensing for class 3 e-bikes and cargo bikes. I also suggest cargo bike training should include securing and balancing a load because I've seen too many improperly secured loads by idiots putting themselves and others at risk.
- loeg 2y agoThe vehicle the OP linked has a cargo rating of 375 lb, not 750, and a top (assisted) speed of 15 mph, not 25-30. In the US we don't require special licensing to drive box trucks up to 26,000 lb GVWR, much less a few thousand lb like you're talking about. Requiring licensing for all class 3 ebikes (speed limited to 28 mph, vast majority carrying little to no cargo) would be absurdly disproportionate.