6 ms·

Banning phones from school as the default should have been included.

by mensetmanusman 2y ago

Larrikin 2y ago
[flagged]
- chii 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - m8s 2y ago
    This is a really gross comment and should be removed.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Fix for that is completely different.
- banku_brougham 2y ago
  This is meant to be darkly humorous I'm sure, but this question is a serious one. I think the market is ripe for an application that could be a part of the educational suite installed on the in-class tablets, which could be enabled only during lockdown. No need to overdesign the architecture at this stage, but the requirements are pretty simple. Each user could be configured via school it adminstrator to allow video chat connections only to parent/gaurdian devices with the app installed.
  - Larrikin 2y ago
    As a parent, school shootings are the real serious issue and one the kids actually care about as well. Phones should be banned like Pokemon cards were banned. Bringing them to school is fine, using after class and even lunch is fine, but having them out in class gets them taken away and detention for repeat offenses.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    > this question is a serious one the question may be serious but the "solution" (kids have a phone so they can call their parents before they get shot) is not there are other ways to prevent school shootings, but because we have so many people in this country who like to play with guns we can't get it together enough to take the measures needed that would greatly reduce and perhaps totally eliminate school shootings (which are an almost uniquely American experience, and as a parent with kids in school, it's frankly terrifying and I couldn't give 2 f's about what the founding fathers wrote 250 years ago when the context and reasons for the 2A, which made sense at the time, have nothing to do with our modern era. It's like saying "well our illustrious all all-knowing founding fathers didn't find it necessary to ban slavery in the Constitution, and in fact, provided for it (3/5s etc.), so we should bow to their infinite wisdom and continue to allow it today."
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    As someone with friends and coworkers who spent their last minutes last year on WhatsApp trying to communicate with family, this is a very bad idea.
- jedberg 2y ago
  Saying this is similar to saying "I won't fly 500 miles, flying is dangerous, I'd rather drive!" The truth of the matter is that school shootings are still much rarer than the daily use of phones in school. Talk to a current middle/high school teacher. They will tell you that in most classes there are at least some kids on their phone the entire time, and there is nothing they can do about it. And those kids distract the ones around them. Kids get "emergency" texts from home midday, and it turns out to be stuff like "I put your socks away for you". They can't take the phone away anymore because if they do, a parent comes in making the same argument you did, or they accuse the school of theft. A statewide ban of phones during class time would at least give the local administration and district some air cover in these cases to confiscate phones that are being used during class.
  - RoddaWallPro 2y ago
    With (I assume) cell phone use prevalent in every single classroom in the nation that hasn't banned them, and school shootings a minuscule probability, "much rarer" is doing a lot of work here hah.
imgabe 2y ago
I don't know why this is hard. At least in the classroom if not during the entire school day. You get a cabinet with a bunch of cubbie holes, kids put their phone in at the beginning of class, they take it out at the end of class. They can even lock and each kid takes a key with them if theft is a concern. It doesn't seem that complicated. They have these things outside every SCIF. I know they exist.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  So if a child says they don’t have a phone are you going to search them? But you don’t even have to take the phone out of the possession of the student. They use these at some phone free concerts. https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch
  - lovecg 2y ago
    That’s exactly what they use at some of the schools that tried it (and there’s an arms race where some kids figured out how to hack these devices and unlock them). Locking up thousands and thousands of dollars worth of phones for the day is way too much liability for a school otherwise.
    - mensetmanusman 2y ago
      Society can choose to pass on bowing to the God of insurance in this case :)
  - Gys 2y ago
    I imagine it is not difficult to make a phone detector. A phone is sending almost constantly. If a phone has to be in flight mode the whole lesson then there is no reason to bring one
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Even airlines can’t really tell when all of the phones are in airplane mode…
duxup 2y ago
I’d rather let administration for individual districts craft their own rules. They have done well in districts my kids have been in. State wide top down rules is too disconnected from the front lines for me to believe they’re anything but legislative theater.
- jedberg 2y ago
  The problem is that districts and schools have tried this, but then parents complain and threaten to sue about "stealing the phone" and such. The district doesn't have a leg to stand on. They need a state law to back them up so that they can tell the parents to take it to their legislature instead of the principal.
  - danjl 2y ago
    This law affects companies, not students, as it should be. Enforcing limits on students is the job of parents, not teachers or police.
    - jedberg 2y ago
      I'm well aware of what this law does, but we are not talking about this law in this thread. > Enforcing limits on students is the job of parents Luckily in California we understand the value of protecting kids over uninformed adults. That's why we require vaccines to attend school.
      - danjl 2y ago
        This is about individual freedoms, not public health, and is directly related to this post. Unfortunately, no law can protect against poor parenting.
        jedberg 2y ago
        > Unfortunately, no law can protect against poor parenting. Oh, but they most certainly can. See the aforementioned vaccine laws. Or the law that provides free breakfast and lunch to every California student regardless of income. Of the law that requires dental coverage for anyone in the state under 18 (and provides it to those who can't afford it). No matter how bad your parent is about feeding you, at least you know you'll get breakfast and lunch every school day, and you can get your teeth checked. There are many laws that protect against poor parenting.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
as a parent with kids in school I am 100% in favor of this. In my son's middle school schools are not allowed in class but that puts the burden of enforcement on the teachers instead of just making it a blanket rule that you can't have it at school period
danjl 2y ago
You can't enforce silly laws. Who would enforce this ban? Teachers? That would be a school regulation, not a state law. Or do you want police walking around school arresting kids with phones? Do you enforce all of your guidance for your kids using legislation? A real solution to the distractions and harm that phones cause when used at school is harder, of course.
- lotsoweiners 2y ago
  My child goes to a charter school in Arizona. Their policy is that phones are stored in lockers. If a kid is caught with their phone in the building then the phone is confiscated and brought to the office. The parents are notified and the phone is only given back to the parent. I don’t understand why something similar couldn’t be implemented in public schools thus requiring no state law.
CuriousCosmic 2y ago
This gets messy because you already have problems with (mostly substitute) teachers ripping out implants (ex: insulin pump), cutting wires/tubes, or preventing kids from using their phone to monitor blood sugar, etc because they try to be "tough" on the no phones rule.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  you are suggesting that life-threatening levels of dependency requiring a phone to continue to live, is common enough to warrant public policy ?
  - CuriousCosmic 2y ago
    Yes. There are a lot of devices that support people with disabilities that nowadays use a phone as their interface. In the past most had their own devices but phones are near universally available so they have become the go-to interface for most of these devices.
Elfener 2y ago
Hungary just banned phones (and also all devices capable of connecting to the internet, and/or capable of recording audio and video) from school. I'm a student in an IT technical school. The only thing this affected is now instead of my classmates playing on their phones during class, they're now loudly playing card games - and now people who do want to learn can't because the teacher has to constantly stop and yell at the people playing cards. I think students should be able to do whatever they want during breaks - they can do actually useful things with their devices, other than scrolling social media or playing games. Also, this new ban completely eliminated kahoot and similar, since phones are collected at the start of the day and giving them out for a class involves incredible amounts of paperwork. (So much for modern teaching/learning methods)
queuebert 2y ago
Seriously. Teachers don't even let kids go to the bathroom without permission. How phones were allowed by default boggles the mind.
catgirlinspace 2y ago
i’m so glad to be finished with high school with all this happening. as a trans girl who was closeted in high school, being able to use my phone in between classes to text my accepting friends was the only way i survived. it sucks seeing that legislation doesn’t seem to consider that at all really.
- heavyset_go 2y ago
  If you listen to legislators pushing social media bans, they are taking cases like this into intense consideration in order to maximize the damage it would have on kids like you. From [1]: > A co-sponsor of a bipartisan bill intended to protect children from the dangers of social media and other online content appeared to suggest in March that the measure could be used to steer kids away from seeing transgender content online. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/senator-appears-suggest-bipartisan-bill-will-censor-transgender-conten-rcna103479 https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sena...
  - catgirlinspace 2y ago
    :( i hate this country…
- jkinto 2y ago
  [flagged]
Eumenes 2y ago
I use to be pro-phone ban in schools but with all the creepy crap going on in public school systems, I think kids should be able to record their teachers/other students/staff.
AceyMan 2y ago
California already implemented that separately. Los Angeles Unified district opened the fall term enforcing the prohibition; the statewide mandate begins 2025.

Banning phones from school as the default should have been included.

Larrikin 2y ago

[flagged]

chii 2y ago
[flagged]
- m8s 2y ago
  This is a really gross comment and should be removed.
Aeolun 2y ago
Fix for that is completely different.
banku_brougham 2y ago
This is meant to be darkly humorous I'm sure, but this question is a serious one. I think the market is ripe for an application that could be a part of the educational suite installed on the in-class tablets, which could be enabled only during lockdown. No need to overdesign the architecture at this stage, but the requirements are pretty simple. Each user could be configured via school it adminstrator to allow video chat connections only to parent/gaurdian devices with the app installed.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  As a parent, school shootings are the real serious issue and one the kids actually care about as well. Phones should be banned like Pokemon cards were banned. Bringing them to school is fine, using after class and even lunch is fine, but having them out in class gets them taken away and detention for repeat offenses.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  > this question is a serious one the question may be serious but the "solution" (kids have a phone so they can call their parents before they get shot) is not there are other ways to prevent school shootings, but because we have so many people in this country who like to play with guns we can't get it together enough to take the measures needed that would greatly reduce and perhaps totally eliminate school shootings (which are an almost uniquely American experience, and as a parent with kids in school, it's frankly terrifying and I couldn't give 2 f's about what the founding fathers wrote 250 years ago when the context and reasons for the 2A, which made sense at the time, have nothing to do with our modern era. It's like saying "well our illustrious all all-knowing founding fathers didn't find it necessary to ban slavery in the Constitution, and in fact, provided for it (3/5s etc.), so we should bow to their infinite wisdom and continue to allow it today."
- dotancohen 2y ago
  As someone with friends and coworkers who spent their last minutes last year on WhatsApp trying to communicate with family, this is a very bad idea.
jedberg 2y ago
Saying this is similar to saying "I won't fly 500 miles, flying is dangerous, I'd rather drive!" The truth of the matter is that school shootings are still much rarer than the daily use of phones in school. Talk to a current middle/high school teacher. They will tell you that in most classes there are at least some kids on their phone the entire time, and there is nothing they can do about it. And those kids distract the ones around them. Kids get "emergency" texts from home midday, and it turns out to be stuff like "I put your socks away for you". They can't take the phone away anymore because if they do, a parent comes in making the same argument you did, or they accuse the school of theft. A statewide ban of phones during class time would at least give the local administration and district some air cover in these cases to confiscate phones that are being used during class.
- RoddaWallPro 2y ago
  With (I assume) cell phone use prevalent in every single classroom in the nation that hasn't banned them, and school shootings a minuscule probability, "much rarer" is doing a lot of work here hah.

imgabe 2y ago

I don't know why this is hard. At least in the classroom if not during the entire school day. You get a cabinet with a bunch of cubbie holes, kids put their phone in at the beginning of class, they take it out at the end of class. They can even lock and each kid takes a key with them if theft is a concern. It doesn't seem that complicated. They have these things outside every SCIF. I know they exist.

scarface_74 2y ago
So if a child says they don’t have a phone are you going to search them? But you don’t even have to take the phone out of the possession of the student. They use these at some phone free concerts. https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch https://www.overyondr.com/phone-locking-pouch
- lovecg 2y ago
  That’s exactly what they use at some of the schools that tried it (and there’s an arms race where some kids figured out how to hack these devices and unlock them). Locking up thousands and thousands of dollars worth of phones for the day is way too much liability for a school otherwise.
  - mensetmanusman 2y ago
    Society can choose to pass on bowing to the God of insurance in this case :)
- Gys 2y ago
  I imagine it is not difficult to make a phone detector. A phone is sending almost constantly. If a phone has to be in flight mode the whole lesson then there is no reason to bring one
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Even airlines can’t really tell when all of the phones are in airplane mode…

duxup 2y ago

I’d rather let administration for individual districts craft their own rules. They have done well in districts my kids have been in. State wide top down rules is too disconnected from the front lines for me to believe they’re anything but legislative theater.

jedberg 2y ago
The problem is that districts and schools have tried this, but then parents complain and threaten to sue about "stealing the phone" and such. The district doesn't have a leg to stand on. They need a state law to back them up so that they can tell the parents to take it to their legislature instead of the principal.
- danjl 2y ago
  This law affects companies, not students, as it should be. Enforcing limits on students is the job of parents, not teachers or police.
  - jedberg 2y ago
    I'm well aware of what this law does, but we are not talking about this law in this thread. > Enforcing limits on students is the job of parents Luckily in California we understand the value of protecting kids over uninformed adults. That's why we require vaccines to attend school.
    - danjl 2y ago
      This is about individual freedoms, not public health, and is directly related to this post. Unfortunately, no law can protect against poor parenting.
      - jedberg 2y ago
        > Unfortunately, no law can protect against poor parenting. Oh, but they most certainly can. See the aforementioned vaccine laws. Or the law that provides free breakfast and lunch to every California student regardless of income. Of the law that requires dental coverage for anyone in the state under 18 (and provides it to those who can't afford it). No matter how bad your parent is about feeding you, at least you know you'll get breakfast and lunch every school day, and you can get your teeth checked. There are many laws that protect against poor parenting.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

as a parent with kids in school I am 100% in favor of this. In my son's middle school schools are not allowed in class but that puts the burden of enforcement on the teachers instead of just making it a blanket rule that you can't have it at school period

danjl 2y ago

You can't enforce silly laws. Who would enforce this ban? Teachers? That would be a school regulation, not a state law. Or do you want police walking around school arresting kids with phones? Do you enforce all of your guidance for your kids using legislation? A real solution to the distractions and harm that phones cause when used at school is harder, of course.

lotsoweiners 2y ago
My child goes to a charter school in Arizona. Their policy is that phones are stored in lockers. If a kid is caught with their phone in the building then the phone is confiscated and brought to the office. The parents are notified and the phone is only given back to the parent. I don’t understand why something similar couldn’t be implemented in public schools thus requiring no state law.

CuriousCosmic 2y ago

This gets messy because you already have problems with (mostly substitute) teachers ripping out implants (ex: insulin pump), cutting wires/tubes, or preventing kids from using their phone to monitor blood sugar, etc because they try to be "tough" on the no phones rule.

mistrial9 2y ago
you are suggesting that life-threatening levels of dependency requiring a phone to continue to live, is common enough to warrant public policy ?
- CuriousCosmic 2y ago
  Yes. There are a lot of devices that support people with disabilities that nowadays use a phone as their interface. In the past most had their own devices but phones are near universally available so they have become the go-to interface for most of these devices.

Elfener 2y ago

Hungary just banned phones (and also all devices capable of connecting to the internet, and/or capable of recording audio and video) from school. I'm a student in an IT technical school. The only thing this affected is now instead of my classmates playing on their phones during class, they're now loudly playing card games - and now people who do want to learn can't because the teacher has to constantly stop and yell at the people playing cards. I think students should be able to do whatever they want during breaks - they can do actually useful things with their devices, other than scrolling social media or playing games. Also, this new ban completely eliminated kahoot and similar, since phones are collected at the start of the day and giving them out for a class involves incredible amounts of paperwork. (So much for modern teaching/learning methods)

queuebert 2y ago

Seriously. Teachers don't even let kids go to the bathroom without permission. How phones were allowed by default boggles the mind.

catgirlinspace 2y ago

i’m so glad to be finished with high school with all this happening. as a trans girl who was closeted in high school, being able to use my phone in between classes to text my accepting friends was the only way i survived. it sucks seeing that legislation doesn’t seem to consider that at all really.

heavyset_go 2y ago
If you listen to legislators pushing social media bans, they are taking cases like this into intense consideration in order to maximize the damage it would have on kids like you. From [1]: > A co-sponsor of a bipartisan bill intended to protect children from the dangers of social media and other online content appeared to suggest in March that the measure could be used to steer kids away from seeing transgender content online. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/senator-appears-suggest-bipartisan-bill-will-censor-transgender-conten-rcna103479 https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sena...
- catgirlinspace 2y ago
  :( i hate this country…
jkinto 2y ago
[flagged]

Eumenes 2y ago

I use to be pro-phone ban in schools but with all the creepy crap going on in public school systems, I think kids should be able to record their teachers/other students/staff.

AceyMan 2y ago

California already implemented that separately. Los Angeles Unified district opened the fall term enforcing the prohibition; the statewide mandate begins 2025.