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Our main business is Static ISP Proxies; here we liaise directly with datacenters and carriers such as ATT, Comcast and others to bring subnets to their network

Our main business is Static ISP Proxies; here we liaise directly with datacenters and carriers such as ATT, Comcast and others to bring subnets to their network and we'll then purchase IP transit from them. We do also have residential peer proxies available - you're right to have ethical concerns as there are bad actors out their that effectively build botnets and spread malware to get their nodes but the industry has developed a lot over the last few years and there are numerous companies, including ourselves, which have pretty strict ethical guidelines. Their are three main ways to ethically source real residential nodes: 1. Direct payment to peers for traffic sent through their devices. There are several networks like EarnApp, Honey, Pawns and others where people can sign up and earn money for bandwidth sent through their devices. We liaise with these networks to add nodes to our pool. 2. Quid pro quo with peer through providing free apps in return for the ability to route traffic through their devices. We don't currently engage in this method but we are planning on doing so within the next 12 months through a free VPN - the important thing here is that peers have to understand what they're signing up for in return for the free service - as long as you're upfront, then it is my belief that their is informed consent and it is therefore ethical; there is often a good value proposition to the customer in these cases i.e spend $7 a month on a paid VPN service or get a free one in return for exchanging a small amount of bandwidth which has zero marginal cost. 3. Offer SDK to developers to monetize applications - this is pretty common and while it is similar to 2. - the ability to distribute the SDK to various developers makes it easier to get a large number of peers online. Again though, its important app developers provide notice of this to their users and most reputable SDK providers have strict guidelines and mandatory screens that must be shown to end users prior to registering them as a residential proxy node. There is also a lot of other things that are involved with making an ethical network - a big thing is to just signal that bad actors and criminals aren't welcome on your network. This is usually done by banning certain domains; for example, we ban all .edu and .gov domains as well as most banking/finance websites + are a member of the Internet Watch Foundation and block their listed domains. This has stops bad actors from using our proxy network for evil + protects peers in the network from bad activity going through their devices. Happy to answer any other questions if you have them :)

greyface- 2y ago
Are you concerned with this activity being prohibited by the AUP of your users' ISP? Do you allow eyeball ASes to opt out of having their network resold in this way?
- tim_at_ping 2y ago
  Not at all. Firstly, just from a legal standpoint, the AUPs aren't signed by us; they're signed by the customer and as long as they understand what they're doing through us ensuring we get informed consent, then its their responsibility and judgement on whether they want to break the rules. On to the ethics of it, again I find it pretty hard to side with ISPs here since the only reason they don't want this activity on their network is because they don't want the additional bandwidth flowing through their fiber and personally, I believe if you buy a 100mb or a 1G internet line from a carrier then it should be yours to use as you wish as long as it remains within the law. This is compounded by the fact that carriers themselves seem to have a tendency to disregard user / privacy agreements and have been happy to sell metadata and location information to any data brokers without ever checking with their customers whether its okay or not. This is obviously the opinion of someone who has a stake in the game but when it comes to web-scraping, VPN usage, proxies and internet usage in general I tend to find myself believing in a free and open web with any blocks, restrictions or censorship usually being a bad thing.
  - greyface- 2y ago
    > from a legal standpoint, the AUPs aren't signed by us; they're signed by the customer and as long as they understand what they're doing through us ensuring we get informed consent, then its their responsibility Have you consulted legal counsel about this? What you're describing sounds like tortious interference. > only reason they don't want this activity on their network is because they don't want the additional bandwidth flowing through their fiber As someone who has a stake in a small ISP: this is not true. I don't want you trashing the reputation of my IPs and getting them banned from the services your customers are scraping. Replacing those IPs comes at a significant cost ($8000-9000 per /24).

greyface- 2y ago

Are you concerned with this activity being prohibited by the AUP of your users' ISP? Do you allow eyeball ASes to opt out of having their network resold in this way?

tim_at_ping 2y ago
Not at all. Firstly, just from a legal standpoint, the AUPs aren't signed by us; they're signed by the customer and as long as they understand what they're doing through us ensuring we get informed consent, then its their responsibility and judgement on whether they want to break the rules. On to the ethics of it, again I find it pretty hard to side with ISPs here since the only reason they don't want this activity on their network is because they don't want the additional bandwidth flowing through their fiber and personally, I believe if you buy a 100mb or a 1G internet line from a carrier then it should be yours to use as you wish as long as it remains within the law. This is compounded by the fact that carriers themselves seem to have a tendency to disregard user / privacy agreements and have been happy to sell metadata and location information to any data brokers without ever checking with their customers whether its okay or not. This is obviously the opinion of someone who has a stake in the game but when it comes to web-scraping, VPN usage, proxies and internet usage in general I tend to find myself believing in a free and open web with any blocks, restrictions or censorship usually being a bad thing.
- greyface- 2y ago
  > from a legal standpoint, the AUPs aren't signed by us; they're signed by the customer and as long as they understand what they're doing through us ensuring we get informed consent, then its their responsibility Have you consulted legal counsel about this? What you're describing sounds like tortious interference. > only reason they don't want this activity on their network is because they don't want the additional bandwidth flowing through their fiber As someone who has a stake in a small ISP: this is not true. I don't want you trashing the reputation of my IPs and getting them banned from the services your customers are scraping. Replacing those IPs comes at a significant cost ($8000-9000 per /24).