6 ms·

It's really frustrating. I currently want to buy a mattress and a refrigerator. The results for those are so awful as to be useless.

supportengineer 2y ago
A lot of classic software essentially worked more like a database. In the last 10-15 years it's all moving to an algorithm. Here is what I mean. Photos apps used to let you search through your photos using filters. The same kinds of things are happening on the web which already happened to apps (desktop and mobile). In the modern world, some marketing company wants to tell YOU which of YOUR photos you wanted, so they can sell you some prints, harvest your data, or something. I would like any apps that have to do with collections of files, photos, music, etc to be more of a deterministic DATABASE and less of a nondeterministic algorithm.
- wolpoli 2y ago
  > A lot of classic software essentially worked more like a database. In the last 10-15 years it's all moving to an algorithm. You just described what I missed about the older software. Older software gives users control over sorting and show data in a tabular format. Modern software sorts data with an algorithm, with ads mixed in, and shows data in a card format, making it a lot less usable.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    Exactly. My related observation: half of the SaaS products I see would be more useful and ergonomic for the user if they were implemented as an Excel sheet. (I actually worked for one of such "better off as an .xls file" startup in the past, and its main competitor was an incumbent that sold the same stuff as an Excel extension. Trying to replace that with a React app is not a worthwhile use of life.) Algorithms are fine. I'll happily apply the most advanced ones I can get. The problem is with who applies them to what - as you and GP said, it's about user control - or, currently, lack of.
    - llm_trw 2y ago
      Excel is great until it you need to do something that takes up more space than a single screen. Then it isn't. Sending sqlite databases to the users which they can interact with using both sql and a viewer is where it's at.
      - jkaplowitz 2y ago
        I wonder if being a more powerful backing data store for Excel is one of the remaining reasonable uses for Microsoft Access, at least for users of the Windows desktop version of Office? Access is still included in many editions of that (although not on Mac or web or mobile). Officially it’s even still supported and not deprecated, although of course it’s very much not emphasized by MS any more. Other options might be SQL Server Express or SQL Server Express LocalDB, the latter of which seems conceptually very much like SQLite within the MS ecosystem, and both of which are usable for production purposes at no cost within the technical limitations that differentiate them from paid editions.
    - samarthr1 2y ago
      The SaaS I am now working for is a react app + some fancy intelligence. We are not front-end people, so the app is built with the expectation that people will be doing their filtering, searching and using the intelligence we provide, but in their home turf (excel). Our app also lets users "track" certain events, and we do not use push notifications, rather we respect our user's attention and email them a short summary, and link to a csv that they can use!
  - brookst 2y ago
    > Older software gives users control over sorting and show data in a tabular format I'm old and tend to agree, but I suspect this is similar to "you used to have a knob on the TV that showed the channel it's on".
    - watwut 2y ago
      Not every change is for the better. You gotta admit that TVs used to be able to switch channels much faster then they do now. And analogue controls in cars are safer and better then touch screens for everything. A lot of change is for the better, but quite a lot is a regression.
      - brookst 2y ago
        "Better" and "regression" are purely subjective. I have access to around 1000 "channels", if you include live broadcasts and network-like apps. How exactly were old TVs better at helping navigate that?
        kedean 2y ago
        Modern TV interfaces are way better at navigating 1000 channels, but whether or not having 1000 channels available through one TV interface is highly debatable. It's also not a given that the current way most TVs use is anywhere close to the optimal one (especially when you have multiple devices that all have to work together because the cable provider insists on their own box, made even worse when a helpful family member installs a sound system with its own dedicated remote).
        PaulHoule 2y ago
        For one thing, the clicker seems to work instantly for analog TV because it will sync up on the next frame, which is 0.03 sec which is less than the 0.2 sec it takes the human mind to perceive two events as two different events. With digital broadcast TV and cable whenever you switch to a different carrier there is a long delay (at least 0.5 sec) for the radio and the rest of the processing train to sync up. With streaming you have to do multiple network round trips to establish a stream. Either way you don't have the immediacy that old TVs had. The question of UI in modern TV is interesting. 15 years ago the 500 channel problem looked difficult, my impression was that Comcast Xfinity (2010) was the first really good STB interface for the digital age. I have a NVIDIA Shield which has an Android TV interface that convincingly makes FAST services like Pluto, Plex and Tubi look like linear TV on an STB. What you find though is that going "back" from one of those channels can put you, disorientingly, in the app for those channels, and also that you can usually navigate better if you start out with the FAST app (and have a more consistent experience watching FAST on a computer, tablet or XBOX) Except for those things which, for some reason, are easy to find in Android TV but hard in the app.
- grugagag 2y ago
  Deterministic software puts the user in control of the product. Nondeterministic algos put the products in control of the user. Naturally companies want the latter and under guises of the ‘now better’ give the user worse and charge them more. A new generation isn’t even aware they’re being fleeced because they don’t have anything to compare with. And the frog boils slowly…
  - knowaveragejoe 2y ago
    This entire thread reads like multiple people circling around product opportunities. There are users out there who want control and will pay for something no-frills. You might not get big VC money to build this, but you could build this.
    - robocat 2y ago
      Consumers want lots of things but they don't want to pay. They pay indirectly via advertising.
      - underlipton 2y ago
        Consumers can't pay. Part of the grift has been the concentration of capital in the hands of the highest wealth-holders, who all seem to have the same idea as to where to put their money (hence, uncomfortably, the bidding up of tech compensation to where it is now). So, no, you're not going to be able to Adobe/Autodesk-style price gouge. However, if you show customers the value proposition (generally some aspect of longevity or portability that prevents expensive upgrades or lock-in), they'll pay when they can. And until sanity returns to the economy, partnering with a credit facility of some sort might be wise (for you, not the customer).
        knowaveragejoe 2y ago
        Okay, no, we don't have to go down this nobody-can-afford-anything rabbit hole. There are people out there that will pay. The issue is not that there isn't willing consumers to pay for it, it's that you're undiscoverable until word-of-mouth builds around your product among people(like those in this very thread) know and talk about your product going against the grain.
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Reminds of Windows and search. I am not anymore even sure if there is some nice dialog where I could put some pattern and folder or list of folder and have it run through it for me...
  - zeagle 2y ago
    It's just enshitification. It's pretty funny when I search for putty and get the help doc, or my email client and get some windows setting option. I switched to powertoys search to get around it but wonder if anyone responsible for maintaining this feature actually uses it.
  - ncpa-cpl 2y ago
    > nice dialog where I could put some pattern and folder or list of folder and have it run through it for me Everything from Voidtools is a dialog window, accepts patterns and is really fast. https://www.voidtools.com/ https://www.voidtools.com/
    - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
      And Stardock's Start11 adds EveryThing's search to your start menu.
ghaff 2y ago
Mattresses have been especially bad for a long time. For refrigerators, you can look at consumer reports and wirecutter--and you can reasonably do some evaluation at your local big box appliance store. I wouldn't buy based on a random web search though.
- groby_b 2y ago
  Wirecutter's gone downhill after the NYT purchase as well. The Spruce seems somewhat better (but is also part of a huge web site family, so caveat emptor) Either you do deep research, or you find a trusted friend to advise you. The Internet is largely useless at this point.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    I think Wirecutter is still a decent source; they probably won't steer you too far wrong if you're not too picky. But nothing, including your trusted friends, is an all-knowing oracle if only because their tastes and priorities are probably different from yours. Certainly pre-Internet there were few enough reliable sources of recommendations--maybe some specialist magazines but even those were far from perfect.
    - eitally 2y ago
      I think you hit the nail on the head. They won't steer you far wrong, but they also may neglect excellent options. For example, they recently published a "best water bottle of 2024" list. They chose to rate Hydroflask #1 and mentioned Yeti in a brief comment about "other bottles to consider" near the bottle. No mention of Kleen Kanteen at all. Yet they do cover the current trendy options of Owala & Stanley Quencher. I don't think it's really objective -- not in the same way that rtings.com is for the electronics categories they review. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-water-bottle/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-water-bottle...
      - Malidir 2y ago
        No affiliate link = less likely to be a star pick?
lotsofpulp 2y ago
The only signal I use is warranty. So I tend to go to Costco, and avoid Samsung.
- hansvm 2y ago
  It's not a bad idea to pair that with lawsuits related to such warranties. Costco and Samsung are big enough that you can achieve reasonable signal. When your local car dealer offers you a full drivetrain warranty though (assuming it's a full warranty and not one of the other ways people are often fleeced), will they honor it when the lemon they sold you breaks the first time? the 2nd? the 3rd? Will they, instead, note that most people buying that car don't have much money (or, if you used any form of dealer financing, know for a fact you don't have much money) and require you to retain a lawyer and sue them to recover any damages?
  - mdorazio 2y ago
    Not sure if your car example was meant to be general or specific, but Lemon Laws are extremely common across the states and are very easy to take advantage of without needing to retain a lawyer. For example, in Texas you fill out a form, pay a $35 filing fee, then bring your evidence to mediation.
    - hansvm 2y ago
      It's a bit of both. Generally the idea holds. The example isn't that bad either. O(100k-1M) people have dealer-fraud related problems every year in the US, usually without happy outcomes. A few ways this might happen relating to my use of the word "lemon" include: 1. Colloquial use of "lemon" differs from the legal definition. In the given example, this might include a 15yr old vehicle (far outside any normal "manufacturer's" warranty) with numerous defects both known to the dealer and lied about to the consumer. The dealer would likely lose any civil complaint, but in Texas, and most states, this doesn't count as a "lemon." You're protected, if at all, by the fact that the salesperson warranted a thing, and perhaps any actual written "warranty" (really insurance, not that it necessarily matters) the dealer might have sold you. You usually waive the warrant of merchantability, so the fact that the car is a dud isn't enough by itself for you to have any damages (all state-specific, consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction). 2. Picking on Texas, since you brought it up, if you only bring the car in 3 times for a major defect covered under the lemon law, it's not a lemon yet. If the dealer refuses to deal with you on the 3rd instance then you'll have to sue with some other justification. 3. In the vast majority of states, you don't have an automated (minus filing fees) hearing process pertaining to lemons. Even in those which do, you're much more likely to succeed with the help of an attorney. In either case, in most states, attorney's fees are not part of the damages you can claim, and when squabbling about a $5k used car it can easily cost more in attorney fees (plus incidentals like renting a car and missing work for the actual hearings -- usually not covered even in states granting damages for incidentals (including rentals and missing work in other contexts) arising from the lemon), often making it not even worth pursuing. ... Usually, even with moderate legal protections, you don't want to enter into an agreement where you expect to have to rely on those protections. Your best-case scenario is that you waste a bunch of time and still have only as many resources as you started with. You'll usually do even worse. Why take a losing gamble?
perks_12 2y ago
Try naplab.
- Krasnol 2y ago
  How do we know you're not an ad?
brendoelfrendo 2y ago
Having bought a mattress recently, it might be worth going to a mattress store. The sales process sucks, but if you want to find a mattress you like, it's hard to beat actually laying down on one.
- Loughla 2y ago
  It also can help you identify the kind you like (coil, latex, etc) and composition you like (layer style and thickness). Then you just search for those two things online. That's how I found an amazing natural latex cooling mattress online. And the best part is that most online mattress retailers have 90 day try out periods. We didn't like our first one, and instead of having us ship it back they told us to donate it and sent us the next to try. So now we have a really nice spare bedroom mattress as well as the perfect mattress in our bedroom.
  - jihadjihad 2y ago
    I like how you donated it to the spare bedroom lol
    - Loughla 2y ago
      In my defense, we did call multiple agencies that work with low-income folks on finding housing and household goods. Due to the possibility of bedbugs, none of them are taking bedding or mattresses anymore.
  - underlipton 2y ago
    This is common. Most online retailers don't have the means to recover and remediate used mattresses (if it's even legal). Most are essentially just branded drop-shipping companies hocking products manufactured in Asia (often from the same factories, with minor differences between "models"). If you have the money to purchase the mattress initially, then you can just keep doing 90-day trials until you get one that the seller asks you to dispose of yourself when you try to return it. Bam, free mattress. Manufacturers and retailers can afford to do this because the markup on materials+labor+shipping is insane. I'm surprised that people haven't caught on yet. Maybe something to do with the nature of the purchase. In a better world, even a "luxury" mattress would cost a couple hundred bucks, at most, but then be extremely difficult to return.
Hnrobert42 2y ago
I got a mattress last year using Consumer Reports rec for most the mattress with the least synthetic chemicals. I am not going to say its name lest it look like I am shilling for them. I will say, it has been great.
- Larrikin 2y ago
  If it's in a verifiable external source (Consumer Report for instance, not some lady's Amazon affiliate links blog), then I would say it's never shilling.
heintmyer 2y ago
May I ask why you use search engine for buying something like a mattress or refrigerator? I dont mean to sound that as an insult. I'm genuinely curious. I or anyone I know of will just go to a nearby store and checkout these items to buy. For things like these one would already know who sells these items, even online. So why not directly checkout those stores, either online or physical?
froglets 2y ago
If I want to buy something like that I set an alert on slickdeals.net Like everything else it used to be better years ago, but there are still some genuine great deals and lots of insight if you’re willing to sift through the comments. When I was looking for a fridge a year or so ago I heard that Samsung was trying to fix their bad appliance rep and quality of parts had gone up, but I went with a different brand. There’s been an issue the last few years of fiberglass escaping through the cover on memory foam mattresses. If I was mattress shopping I’d probably still get foam, but look for one without fiberglass or find some kind of allergy cover to at least contain it.
infecto 2y ago
sleeplikethedead.com
- joenot443 2y ago
  Fantastic site. There's a Mattress Selector which seems just grand [1] Will definitely be using this next time I'm in the market. [1] https://www.sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-selector.html https://www.sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-selector.html
pembrook 2y ago
It’s the same for pretty much any product category now. Affiliate marketing and Google using its monopoly to prioritize ads over search results has basically ruined search. It’s in their best interest to lower the quality of results because the ads get more useful comparatively. Gmail is next I predict. They have a monopoly over consumer email, so it’s revenue growth just waiting to be unlocked when times get tough. A higher percentage of your inbox is going to become paid Gmail ads and there’s nothing you’re going to do about it. Nobody wants to go to the hassle of changing their email address (the amount of boomers still on Yahoo mail is staggering).
devjab 2y ago
I got so frustrated trying to find some shelves recently that I ended up building them myself. It used to be that I could use Google to find some furniture stores, but now they all require me to throughly vet them to make sure they aren’t just reselling stuff from China or scam sites. Ikea still works, but that’s about it unless I go to big designer brands where a shelf will cost me a gazillion DKR. Unfortunately Ikea didn’t have any shelves that I liked, which is why I build them out of some wood I purchased in the local hardware store. It’s so annoying that it’s almost impossible to find a legitimate store. Well maybe that’s not the correct way to word it. It’s so frustrating that it’s almost impossible to know whether or not the top shops you get in your search results are stores you want to use or not.
- PaulHoule 2y ago
  It's bad enough that manufacturers in China might start complaining about it as the best manufacturers there have a reputation to protect. There is a mushroom grower in Shanghai, for instance, which grows very inexpensive but tasty beech mushrooms in a giant vertical farm where workers only touch the mushrooms with a forklift (see https://www.finc-sh.com/en/about.aspx#fincvideo https://www.finc-sh.com/en/about.aspx#fincvideo) There are numerous photography equipment vendors in China that make innovative and value-conscious products (like this inexpensive manual focus lens which takes pictures like you've never seen: https://7artisans.store/products/50mm-f1-05 https://7artisans.store/products/50mm-f1-05) that excel in customer support. They post real manuals to their web sites where you can easily find them, they correspond to you with email and not a ticket system behind a CAPTCHA, they don't have a huge list of unauthorized vendors for whom they won't support your product if you bought from them, etc. I hear back from them in 24 hours most of the time compared to an Italian vendor that makes great tripods but takes more like four days to respond. If Chinese vendors are working that hard to get my business I very much want to support them.
  - Kye 2y ago
    I borrowed a Laowa 100mm macro lens (Venus Optics) for a little while. The only reason I didn't buy one is it disabled TTL since it lacked the required electronics. https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-100mm-f-2-8-2x-macro-apo/ https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-100mm-f-2-8-2x-macro... There are also several Chinese graphics tablet companies that Wacom still doesn't realize it's in competition with.
boringg 2y ago
I want to add in case people think this is strictly a Google thing. DDG is equally terrible at finding this kind of thing. I didn't realize until I read this thread that I was suffering this same kind of issue. Its so painful trying to find on the internet.
- klyrs 2y ago
  Is DDG not just a whitelabel Bing?
  - boringg 2y ago
    Wait, is it? I didn't think it was..

supportengineer 2y ago

A lot of classic software essentially worked more like a database. In the last 10-15 years it's all moving to an algorithm. Here is what I mean. Photos apps used to let you search through your photos using filters. The same kinds of things are happening on the web which already happened to apps (desktop and mobile). In the modern world, some marketing company wants to tell YOU which of YOUR photos you wanted, so they can sell you some prints, harvest your data, or something. I would like any apps that have to do with collections of files, photos, music, etc to be more of a deterministic DATABASE and less of a nondeterministic algorithm.

wolpoli 2y ago
> A lot of classic software essentially worked more like a database. In the last 10-15 years it's all moving to an algorithm. You just described what I missed about the older software. Older software gives users control over sorting and show data in a tabular format. Modern software sorts data with an algorithm, with ads mixed in, and shows data in a card format, making it a lot less usable.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Exactly. My related observation: half of the SaaS products I see would be more useful and ergonomic for the user if they were implemented as an Excel sheet. (I actually worked for one of such "better off as an .xls file" startup in the past, and its main competitor was an incumbent that sold the same stuff as an Excel extension. Trying to replace that with a React app is not a worthwhile use of life.) Algorithms are fine. I'll happily apply the most advanced ones I can get. The problem is with who applies them to what - as you and GP said, it's about user control - or, currently, lack of.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    Excel is great until it you need to do something that takes up more space than a single screen. Then it isn't. Sending sqlite databases to the users which they can interact with using both sql and a viewer is where it's at.
    - jkaplowitz 2y ago
      I wonder if being a more powerful backing data store for Excel is one of the remaining reasonable uses for Microsoft Access, at least for users of the Windows desktop version of Office? Access is still included in many editions of that (although not on Mac or web or mobile). Officially it’s even still supported and not deprecated, although of course it’s very much not emphasized by MS any more. Other options might be SQL Server Express or SQL Server Express LocalDB, the latter of which seems conceptually very much like SQLite within the MS ecosystem, and both of which are usable for production purposes at no cost within the technical limitations that differentiate them from paid editions.
  - samarthr1 2y ago
    The SaaS I am now working for is a react app + some fancy intelligence. We are not front-end people, so the app is built with the expectation that people will be doing their filtering, searching and using the intelligence we provide, but in their home turf (excel). Our app also lets users "track" certain events, and we do not use push notifications, rather we respect our user's attention and email them a short summary, and link to a csv that they can use!
- brookst 2y ago
  > Older software gives users control over sorting and show data in a tabular format I'm old and tend to agree, but I suspect this is similar to "you used to have a knob on the TV that showed the channel it's on".
  - watwut 2y ago
    Not every change is for the better. You gotta admit that TVs used to be able to switch channels much faster then they do now. And analogue controls in cars are safer and better then touch screens for everything. A lot of change is for the better, but quite a lot is a regression.
    - brookst 2y ago
      "Better" and "regression" are purely subjective. I have access to around 1000 "channels", if you include live broadcasts and network-like apps. How exactly were old TVs better at helping navigate that?
      - kedean 2y ago
        Modern TV interfaces are way better at navigating 1000 channels, but whether or not having 1000 channels available through one TV interface is highly debatable. It's also not a given that the current way most TVs use is anywhere close to the optimal one (especially when you have multiple devices that all have to work together because the cable provider insists on their own box, made even worse when a helpful family member installs a sound system with its own dedicated remote).
      - PaulHoule 2y ago
        For one thing, the clicker seems to work instantly for analog TV because it will sync up on the next frame, which is 0.03 sec which is less than the 0.2 sec it takes the human mind to perceive two events as two different events. With digital broadcast TV and cable whenever you switch to a different carrier there is a long delay (at least 0.5 sec) for the radio and the rest of the processing train to sync up. With streaming you have to do multiple network round trips to establish a stream. Either way you don't have the immediacy that old TVs had. The question of UI in modern TV is interesting. 15 years ago the 500 channel problem looked difficult, my impression was that Comcast Xfinity (2010) was the first really good STB interface for the digital age. I have a NVIDIA Shield which has an Android TV interface that convincingly makes FAST services like Pluto, Plex and Tubi look like linear TV on an STB. What you find though is that going "back" from one of those channels can put you, disorientingly, in the app for those channels, and also that you can usually navigate better if you start out with the FAST app (and have a more consistent experience watching FAST on a computer, tablet or XBOX) Except for those things which, for some reason, are easy to find in Android TV but hard in the app.
grugagag 2y ago
Deterministic software puts the user in control of the product. Nondeterministic algos put the products in control of the user. Naturally companies want the latter and under guises of the ‘now better’ give the user worse and charge them more. A new generation isn’t even aware they’re being fleeced because they don’t have anything to compare with. And the frog boils slowly…
- knowaveragejoe 2y ago
  This entire thread reads like multiple people circling around product opportunities. There are users out there who want control and will pay for something no-frills. You might not get big VC money to build this, but you could build this.
  - robocat 2y ago
    Consumers want lots of things but they don't want to pay. They pay indirectly via advertising.
    - underlipton 2y ago
      Consumers can't pay. Part of the grift has been the concentration of capital in the hands of the highest wealth-holders, who all seem to have the same idea as to where to put their money (hence, uncomfortably, the bidding up of tech compensation to where it is now). So, no, you're not going to be able to Adobe/Autodesk-style price gouge. However, if you show customers the value proposition (generally some aspect of longevity or portability that prevents expensive upgrades or lock-in), they'll pay when they can. And until sanity returns to the economy, partnering with a credit facility of some sort might be wise (for you, not the customer).
      - knowaveragejoe 2y ago
        Okay, no, we don't have to go down this nobody-can-afford-anything rabbit hole. There are people out there that will pay. The issue is not that there isn't willing consumers to pay for it, it's that you're undiscoverable until word-of-mouth builds around your product among people(like those in this very thread) know and talk about your product going against the grain.
Ekaros 2y ago
Reminds of Windows and search. I am not anymore even sure if there is some nice dialog where I could put some pattern and folder or list of folder and have it run through it for me...
- zeagle 2y ago
  It's just enshitification. It's pretty funny when I search for putty and get the help doc, or my email client and get some windows setting option. I switched to powertoys search to get around it but wonder if anyone responsible for maintaining this feature actually uses it.
- ncpa-cpl 2y ago
  > nice dialog where I could put some pattern and folder or list of folder and have it run through it for me Everything from Voidtools is a dialog window, accepts patterns and is really fast. https://www.voidtools.com/ https://www.voidtools.com/
  - _DeadFred_ 2y ago
    And Stardock's Start11 adds EveryThing's search to your start menu.

ghaff 2y ago

Mattresses have been especially bad for a long time. For refrigerators, you can look at consumer reports and wirecutter--and you can reasonably do some evaluation at your local big box appliance store. I wouldn't buy based on a random web search though.

groby_b 2y ago
Wirecutter's gone downhill after the NYT purchase as well. The Spruce seems somewhat better (but is also part of a huge web site family, so caveat emptor) Either you do deep research, or you find a trusted friend to advise you. The Internet is largely useless at this point.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I think Wirecutter is still a decent source; they probably won't steer you too far wrong if you're not too picky. But nothing, including your trusted friends, is an all-knowing oracle if only because their tastes and priorities are probably different from yours. Certainly pre-Internet there were few enough reliable sources of recommendations--maybe some specialist magazines but even those were far from perfect.
  - eitally 2y ago
    I think you hit the nail on the head. They won't steer you far wrong, but they also may neglect excellent options. For example, they recently published a "best water bottle of 2024" list. They chose to rate Hydroflask #1 and mentioned Yeti in a brief comment about "other bottles to consider" near the bottle. No mention of Kleen Kanteen at all. Yet they do cover the current trendy options of Owala & Stanley Quencher. I don't think it's really objective -- not in the same way that rtings.com is for the electronics categories they review. https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-water-bottle/ https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-water-bottle...
    - Malidir 2y ago
      No affiliate link = less likely to be a star pick?

lotsofpulp 2y ago

The only signal I use is warranty. So I tend to go to Costco, and avoid Samsung.

hansvm 2y ago
It's not a bad idea to pair that with lawsuits related to such warranties. Costco and Samsung are big enough that you can achieve reasonable signal. When your local car dealer offers you a full drivetrain warranty though (assuming it's a full warranty and not one of the other ways people are often fleeced), will they honor it when the lemon they sold you breaks the first time? the 2nd? the 3rd? Will they, instead, note that most people buying that car don't have much money (or, if you used any form of dealer financing, know for a fact you don't have much money) and require you to retain a lawyer and sue them to recover any damages?
- mdorazio 2y ago
  Not sure if your car example was meant to be general or specific, but Lemon Laws are extremely common across the states and are very easy to take advantage of without needing to retain a lawyer. For example, in Texas you fill out a form, pay a $35 filing fee, then bring your evidence to mediation.
  - hansvm 2y ago
    It's a bit of both. Generally the idea holds. The example isn't that bad either. O(100k-1M) people have dealer-fraud related problems every year in the US, usually without happy outcomes. A few ways this might happen relating to my use of the word "lemon" include: 1. Colloquial use of "lemon" differs from the legal definition. In the given example, this might include a 15yr old vehicle (far outside any normal "manufacturer's" warranty) with numerous defects both known to the dealer and lied about to the consumer. The dealer would likely lose any civil complaint, but in Texas, and most states, this doesn't count as a "lemon." You're protected, if at all, by the fact that the salesperson warranted a thing, and perhaps any actual written "warranty" (really insurance, not that it necessarily matters) the dealer might have sold you. You usually waive the warrant of merchantability, so the fact that the car is a dud isn't enough by itself for you to have any damages (all state-specific, consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction). 2. Picking on Texas, since you brought it up, if you only bring the car in 3 times for a major defect covered under the lemon law, it's not a lemon yet. If the dealer refuses to deal with you on the 3rd instance then you'll have to sue with some other justification. 3. In the vast majority of states, you don't have an automated (minus filing fees) hearing process pertaining to lemons. Even in those which do, you're much more likely to succeed with the help of an attorney. In either case, in most states, attorney's fees are not part of the damages you can claim, and when squabbling about a $5k used car it can easily cost more in attorney fees (plus incidentals like renting a car and missing work for the actual hearings -- usually not covered even in states granting damages for incidentals (including rentals and missing work in other contexts) arising from the lemon), often making it not even worth pursuing. ... Usually, even with moderate legal protections, you don't want to enter into an agreement where you expect to have to rely on those protections. Your best-case scenario is that you waste a bunch of time and still have only as many resources as you started with. You'll usually do even worse. Why take a losing gamble?

perks_12 2y ago

Try naplab.

Krasnol 2y ago
How do we know you're not an ad?

brendoelfrendo 2y ago

Having bought a mattress recently, it might be worth going to a mattress store. The sales process sucks, but if you want to find a mattress you like, it's hard to beat actually laying down on one.

Loughla 2y ago
It also can help you identify the kind you like (coil, latex, etc) and composition you like (layer style and thickness). Then you just search for those two things online. That's how I found an amazing natural latex cooling mattress online. And the best part is that most online mattress retailers have 90 day try out periods. We didn't like our first one, and instead of having us ship it back they told us to donate it and sent us the next to try. So now we have a really nice spare bedroom mattress as well as the perfect mattress in our bedroom.
- jihadjihad 2y ago
  I like how you donated it to the spare bedroom lol
  - Loughla 2y ago
    In my defense, we did call multiple agencies that work with low-income folks on finding housing and household goods. Due to the possibility of bedbugs, none of them are taking bedding or mattresses anymore.
- underlipton 2y ago
  This is common. Most online retailers don't have the means to recover and remediate used mattresses (if it's even legal). Most are essentially just branded drop-shipping companies hocking products manufactured in Asia (often from the same factories, with minor differences between "models"). If you have the money to purchase the mattress initially, then you can just keep doing 90-day trials until you get one that the seller asks you to dispose of yourself when you try to return it. Bam, free mattress. Manufacturers and retailers can afford to do this because the markup on materials+labor+shipping is insane. I'm surprised that people haven't caught on yet. Maybe something to do with the nature of the purchase. In a better world, even a "luxury" mattress would cost a couple hundred bucks, at most, but then be extremely difficult to return.

Hnrobert42 2y ago

I got a mattress last year using Consumer Reports rec for most the mattress with the least synthetic chemicals. I am not going to say its name lest it look like I am shilling for them. I will say, it has been great.

Larrikin 2y ago
If it's in a verifiable external source (Consumer Report for instance, not some lady's Amazon affiliate links blog), then I would say it's never shilling.

heintmyer 2y ago

May I ask why you use search engine for buying something like a mattress or refrigerator? I dont mean to sound that as an insult. I'm genuinely curious. I or anyone I know of will just go to a nearby store and checkout these items to buy. For things like these one would already know who sells these items, even online. So why not directly checkout those stores, either online or physical?

froglets 2y ago

If I want to buy something like that I set an alert on slickdeals.net Like everything else it used to be better years ago, but there are still some genuine great deals and lots of insight if you’re willing to sift through the comments. When I was looking for a fridge a year or so ago I heard that Samsung was trying to fix their bad appliance rep and quality of parts had gone up, but I went with a different brand. There’s been an issue the last few years of fiberglass escaping through the cover on memory foam mattresses. If I was mattress shopping I’d probably still get foam, but look for one without fiberglass or find some kind of allergy cover to at least contain it.

infecto 2y ago

sleeplikethedead.com

joenot443 2y ago
Fantastic site. There's a Mattress Selector which seems just grand [1] Will definitely be using this next time I'm in the market. [1] https://www.sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-selector.html https://www.sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-selector.html

pembrook 2y ago

It’s the same for pretty much any product category now. Affiliate marketing and Google using its monopoly to prioritize ads over search results has basically ruined search. It’s in their best interest to lower the quality of results because the ads get more useful comparatively. Gmail is next I predict. They have a monopoly over consumer email, so it’s revenue growth just waiting to be unlocked when times get tough. A higher percentage of your inbox is going to become paid Gmail ads and there’s nothing you’re going to do about it. Nobody wants to go to the hassle of changing their email address (the amount of boomers still on Yahoo mail is staggering).

devjab 2y ago

I got so frustrated trying to find some shelves recently that I ended up building them myself. It used to be that I could use Google to find some furniture stores, but now they all require me to throughly vet them to make sure they aren’t just reselling stuff from China or scam sites. Ikea still works, but that’s about it unless I go to big designer brands where a shelf will cost me a gazillion DKR. Unfortunately Ikea didn’t have any shelves that I liked, which is why I build them out of some wood I purchased in the local hardware store. It’s so annoying that it’s almost impossible to find a legitimate store. Well maybe that’s not the correct way to word it. It’s so frustrating that it’s almost impossible to know whether or not the top shops you get in your search results are stores you want to use or not.

PaulHoule 2y ago
It's bad enough that manufacturers in China might start complaining about it as the best manufacturers there have a reputation to protect. There is a mushroom grower in Shanghai, for instance, which grows very inexpensive but tasty beech mushrooms in a giant vertical farm where workers only touch the mushrooms with a forklift (see https://www.finc-sh.com/en/about.aspx#fincvideo https://www.finc-sh.com/en/about.aspx#fincvideo) There are numerous photography equipment vendors in China that make innovative and value-conscious products (like this inexpensive manual focus lens which takes pictures like you've never seen: https://7artisans.store/products/50mm-f1-05 https://7artisans.store/products/50mm-f1-05) that excel in customer support. They post real manuals to their web sites where you can easily find them, they correspond to you with email and not a ticket system behind a CAPTCHA, they don't have a huge list of unauthorized vendors for whom they won't support your product if you bought from them, etc. I hear back from them in 24 hours most of the time compared to an Italian vendor that makes great tripods but takes more like four days to respond. If Chinese vendors are working that hard to get my business I very much want to support them.
- Kye 2y ago
  I borrowed a Laowa 100mm macro lens (Venus Optics) for a little while. The only reason I didn't buy one is it disabled TTL since it lacked the required electronics. https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-100mm-f-2-8-2x-macro-apo/ https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa-100mm-f-2-8-2x-macro... There are also several Chinese graphics tablet companies that Wacom still doesn't realize it's in competition with.

boringg 2y ago

I want to add in case people think this is strictly a Google thing. DDG is equally terrible at finding this kind of thing. I didn't realize until I read this thread that I was suffering this same kind of issue. Its so painful trying to find on the internet.

klyrs 2y ago
Is DDG not just a whitelabel Bing?
- boringg 2y ago
  Wait, is it? I didn't think it was..