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Microplastics in the olfactory bulb of the human brain
- ClumsyPilot 2y agoWhat the plan to deal with this? People make fun of doomers, but this unfixable. PS: originally this said boomers, but I meant Doomers, as I. People who run around screaming the world is doomed
- KingFelix 2y agonanobots?
- throwanem 2y agoJust the thing when you've swallowed a fly.
- evanjrowley 2y agoNanobots in the Olfactory Bulb of the Human Brain (2030)
- throwanem 2y ago...what are those sha512 hashes doing in the author list?
- Hunpeter 2y agoNanomachines, son.
- cubefox 2y agoa.k.a. enzymes
- kibwen 2y agoLead and asbestos in housing and consumer products were similarly intractable, but we (mostly) banned them anyway. We're still dealing with removal and mitigation decades later, but at least those problem aren't getting any worse. At some point you have to say enough is enough and ban plastics in contexts where they're most likely to find pathways into the biosphere: food containers, disposable goods, clothes, car tires, water pipes, etc. Just because the problem will take centuries to resolve doesn't mean that we can't start now.
- ClumsyPilot 2y agoThis is not in housing, it’s in the water, in the snow, it’s everywhere forever.
- cubefox 2y agoI think you are confusing plastics with so-called forever chemicals.
- 1d22a 2y agoI'm not sure they are. Microplastics have been found in snow[1] and in "oceans, air and food supply"[2]. Additionally, the so-called forever chemicals (PFAS) originated with PTFE (Teflon) plastic, and PFAS 'forever chemicals' are used to produce polymers used in plastics, rubber and fabrics so they are intimately linked with plastics and microplastics. 1: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61739159 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-61739159 2: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-024-02968-x https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-024-02968-x
- hypeatei 2y agoLawyers. If harmful effects are found decades later, then we'll be entitled to compensation! How fun.
- ClumsyPilot 2y agoThis will affect every child In The world for many generations. Who is paying these damages in trillions? Even if you were to pin it on specific companies, they would go bancrupt.
- hypeatei 2y agoIt was more of a joke because usually compensation is next to nothing in large class actions. Basically, we don't really care.
- moffkalast 2y agoHere's your 3 dollars, don't spend it all in one place.
- reedf1 2y agoEnzymes
- ushiroda80 2y agoPlastics need be banned from clothing and food.
- bluSCALE4 2y agoFrom clothing? Do you have any idea how prevalent it's become? It is hard/impossible to find clothes without traces of plastic.
- glial 2y agoI can't tell whether you're making an argument for or against it.
- Night_Thastus 2y agoI don't think they're stating either - just that it's pretty impractical to remove plastic from clothing at this point.
- glial 2y agoAs another commenter pointed out, you could (and people surely did) make the same argument about lead or asbestos. That alone doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.
- lukan 2y agoWe have clear evidence that asbestos and lead are very harmful. I don't think we have that evidence for plastic (yet). Also you totally can start buying plastic free clothes here and now. Just more expensive usually.
- atrus 2y agoPlus, plastics is a very very broad term. Saying "ban all plastics" isn't the same as saying ban lead, it's the same as saying "ban all metals".
- cube2222 2y agoDoes someone have good papers on the negative effects of microplastics (ideally on humans)? A while back I tried to look for those, and it was nontrivial to find papers that would conclusively show that they are harmful, and the mechanisms of this harmfulness. There's a ton of press about where they are (everywhere) but (as a layman) you could argue it's because they're not very reactive, and this lack of reactivity could mean they're not actually that harmful, and are just there. Take TFA as an example. Based on the abstract it shows that microplastics are there, but concludes with "highlighting the need for further research on their neurotoxic effects and implications for human health". Now of course doing good studies about this is extremely hard, as it's hard to find subjects untouched by microplastics for control groups, but I hope someone here can provide me with some good sources on this. To be clear, I'm not trying to deny the harmfulness here, I'm just looking for good related content.
- ch4s3 2y agoBased on a similar search, my take away was that it’s too early to tell. Animal models suggest some risks, but it’s not very clear if that translates to humans. Feeding plastic to mice isn’t an exact analogue.
- hollerith 2y ago> they're not very reactive, and this lack of reactivity could mean they're not actually that harmful. Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) are so stable they are called "forever chemicals", but according the NRDC, "PFAS are also toxic at extremely low levels (i.e. parts per quadrillion), posing significant risks to our health": https://www.nrdc.org/stories/forever-chemicals-called-pfas-show-your-food-clothes-and-home https://www.nrdc.org/stories/forever-chemicals-called-pfas-s...
- maltyr 2y agoA quick search led me to this review, which has a number of studies linked in references, including a few that studied humans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9885170/ Quote from the abstract: The direct consequences of MPs and NPs on the thyroid, testis, and ovaries are documented. Still, studies need to be carried out to identify the direct effects of MPs and NPs on the hypothalamus, pituitary, and adrenal glands.
- gravitronic 2y agoStarting to eye my dryer lint as a toxic substance
- jaggederest 2y agoIf you put a machine that blew asbestos fibers out the wall/roof of the building in most homes in the US people would probably be pretty upset. For that matter, I wonder if they ever made asbestos clothing for routine wear? Looks like aprons, oven mitts, and ironing board covers.
- infecto 2y agoI don't think we can yet compare microplastics to asbestos. Asbestos is still used today but in much more industrial, safe ways than it once was used. Not to downplay any net harm but I don't believe its as clear yet.
- jaggederest 2y agoI'm pretty sure we can compare them. Whether the ultimate harm will be anywhere near that level of impact I have no idea, but they're clearly tiny fibers infiltrating places they weren't expected with possible health outcomes as a result of indiscriminate use before the risks were fully understood.
- infecto 2y agoI don't think you can compare the net harm yet? Unless you have research that no one else does. We know asbestos is a carcinogen, we know it gets lodged into the lungs and does not remove itself. We know the outcomes from heavy exposure. While we know plastic is getting to places it should not be, we have not fully figured out all the negative impacts. Those impacts will drive where/when to use it. Edit: Again, I am not trying to downplay potential harm. It might be a serious issue that is driving poor outcomes but I don't believe we have research of that as of yet.
- lurking_swe 2y ago
- seper8 2y agoPeople, get air filters inside of your house and especially your bedroom. Anything with a HEPA filter. I personally have a Winix and a dyson fan, quite happy with it. You'll be surprised what it picks up over time, and consequently what you end up not inhaling...
- pushupentry1219 2y agoAre these filters sufficient to filter out microplastics?
- colechristensen 2y agoYes. And particles down to 0.3 microns. My understanding is that the health benefits are most pronounced from avoiding smoke and fine dust particles which don't necessarily have a lot to do with plastic, but it's a good recommendation regardless. There is significant evidence linking PM2.5 concentrations and health (which is a common metric about fine particles in the air of a particular size, in this case 2.5 micron range)
- left-struck 2y agoTo add to this, hepa filters are extremely effective. They are rated at something like 99.95%. That is the rating for the size of particle that they are worst at filtering. Particles both smaller and larger are filtered at a higher rate. This is also only for air passing through the filter once, if you have a air purifier running in a small room it will pass all the air through it multiple times, completely cleaning the air of basically anything that is not gas or vapour. Of course new particles can come into the air from various sources. It’s kinda magical that we can have this technology that is affordable and actually genuinely does what is advertised They are so effective that they will literally filter a bad smell out of a room assuming it’s not a gas that’s making then smell.
- stroupwaffle 2y agoEverything is made of plastic now though including those fuzzy blankets and pillows people love.
- aggie 2y agoMicroplastics seem bad. The evidence of adverse effects seems marginal. But in the bigger picture, plastics provide enormous wealth to the world. We should look for ways to mitigate any adverse environmental effects, of course, but it's not at all obvious to me that the ROI of doing so in my personal life is positive.
- trial3 2y agothis… is a dril tweet https://x.com/dril/status/464802196060917762?lang=en https://x.com/dril/status/464802196060917762?lang=en
- advael 2y agoI am fairly convinced that this comment section is among the best demonstrations for "isolated demands for rigor" I have personally ever seen, especially paired with any comment section about an AI-related article When we are trying to predict the implications of unproven technologies on complex worldwide economies, there is talk of "obvious inevitability" When we express concerns that chemicals humanity recently started coating the entire planet with at an alarming rate seem to get really deep into every kind of living tissue and nearly everything else we've ever seen bioaccumulate like that has caused a lot of unforeseen issues that took a long time to suss out but most turn out to be at least somewhat harmful, there's all this "well we don't have longitudinal RCTs with enormous sample sizes showing the specific harms of every specific plastic published in prestigious journals yet so who knows really"
- beowulfey 2y agoIt's a soft, warm blanket of denial, because the actual implications of it are too scary.
- whyenot 2y agoAs humans, we seem to really like warm blankets. See: high school football and CTE
- fnordpiglet 2y agoMy impression is people are generally alarmed but without any science of what the harms are it’s hard to understand what we need to do about the situation. The science is still very immature, and there are lot of other bad things (PFAs for example) that are likewise ubiquitous and permeate everything and everywhere that we have a pretty clear notion of their dangers. Even then it’s hard to assess how severe the harms are for microplastics yet. Part of the reason is they’re clearly not overtly dangerous. The way in which they are dangerous is very poorly understood, so what policy or regulatory actions could we take today? Ban plastics globally? “Plastic” is a very broad term for a specific mechanical characteristic of a material and includes lots of monomers and polymers, some of which we know are inert enough in life we use them for implants in human bodies already. Are those micro plastics dangerous? Who knows. Should be bans everything that has the characteristic of being “plastic?” That’s absurd. So while I might agree we need to “do something,” that something will need to be super subtle and targeted out of bare necessity.
- userbinator 2y agoThe predominant shapes were particles and fibers, with polypropylene being the most common polymer. No doubt these are almost entirely due to synthetic fibres in clothing and other textiles, which have been around for more than half a century now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olefin_fiber https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olefin_fiber Note that natural fibres aren't great either if you inhale enough of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byssinosis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byssinosis The amount of pseudoscience and illogicity around microplastics is staggering. Consider those advocating for banning traditional blown-film plastic bags and replacing them with ones which are woven or non-woven fibre... the majority of which will also be made from plastic, but will emit loose fibres far more easily. Go after the textile industry if you really want to reduce microplastics, as that's where the majority of them come from. Of course this is assuming there is any clear evidence of harm, which is far from conclusive.
- jongjong 2y agoI blame our debt-based system for fueling globalization at a rapid speed and for shifting the focus too much towards low-costs and mass production. When consumers are in debt and deprived of surplus income, they are forced to ignore their ethical concerns and go for the cheapest of the cheap, which is usually bad for the environment. Had we had a more decentralized system, with less severe inequality, I tend to think that we would be using a far more heterogeneous set of materials in manufacturing. There would be less focus on minimizing costs, leaving more room for ethics and thus we wouldn't end up with massive global problems like this. It's weird how plastic in its current form has been around and sold in such massive qualities for such a long time. It makes it look as though there is absolutely no room for innovation. But history tells us there is always room for innovation. Capitalism has been good at finding creative paths (plural). The tech monoculture we have today seems unnatural. Likely propped up by our debt-based monetary system which allows infinite compounding of wealth which leads to unsurmountable artificial centralization. It manufactures inequality, homogeneity and groupthink. Capitalism should be a hydra, but the monetary system has turned it into a one-headed dragon with a single mighty but aging head.
- KeyFlower 2y ago[dead]
- lumost 2y agoCurious what other items end up there. E.g. particulate dust, dirt, minerals etc. It’s a more interesting result if plastics are unique in ending up here.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]