3 ms·

Lightweight radio transmitters on birds, bats and insects

69 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

birdnetflyer 2y ago
They are missing a huge chance by not using ultra cheap SDRs like RTLSDRs. Edit: I see.. they are using RasPis. But it looks like a super complex setup.
- tonyarkles 2y ago
  https://archived.sensorgnome.org/How_do_I_build_a_SensorGnome/ https://archived.sensorgnome.org/How_do_I_build_a_SensorGnom... This is using a Funcube Dongle, which if I recall has much better noise performance than the normal RTLSDR devices.
- fotta 2y ago
  they do support RTL-SDR https://docs.motus.org/en/stations/station-equipment/antennas#radio-dongles https://docs.motus.org/en/stations/station-equipment/antenna...
smusamashah 2y ago
These trackers on the legs remind of the 70 year old albatross https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38662454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38662454 which has the same tracker.
- b112 2y ago
  For some reason, I immediately thought "no way that bird is 70 years old", and reasoned that the bauble on the birds leg is now a status symbol. After all, all the other birds see humans staring, pointing, admiring the bird with it! So the bird returning for 70 years, is just whichever bird that managed to kill and take the bauble for its own. I envision a bird arena, and Spock/Kirk fight music, all of it. And here we just think it's the same bird.
  - uoaei 2y ago
    That's not reason, that's post-facto rationalization. The two are often conflated, to the detriment of us all.
    - Two4 2y ago
      Hey now, don't have too much fun without the rest of us
jonathanyc 2y ago
> In looking at roost networks of bank swallows in Ontario you can identify that, “Oh, some bank swallows at night are actually going to different roosts from where their babies are,” and the adults will often trade off. We don’t know why, but they will sort of wander around and travel a hundred or more kilometers to a different place between nights. That is actually pretty surprising to me. The weirdest insight from animal trackers I’d previously heard was kind of similar—that wolves regularly travel a lot further than scientists would have expected—but trading off roosts is a whole different level.
- crooked-v 2y ago
  AirBnBird.
edm0nd 2y ago
[flagged]
tannhaeuser 2y ago
Been bothered for a long time that wildlife conservationists are so quick to tag animals with labels and trackers left and right. Is it really helping, or is it rather control freakery and actionism when the natural habitat or food chain or whatever is simply shrinking and there's not much that can be done about it save for full-on stopping obvious causes? Can not at least animal identities and movement be tracked or estimated with minimal-invasive methods or cameras more intelligently?
- vouaobrasil 2y ago
  Most of the time, tags don't seem to cause much problems but sometimes there can be some effects [1]. Conservation efforts can be effective if evidence is needed in order to fight against further land destruction (such as property development), especially when migratory birds use small but important areas for stopovers. On the other hand, a lot of conservation research is merely clarifying somewhat obvious problems, but the current capitalistic system is very inefficient when it comes to dealing with these problems: in it, you must hit people over the head with the obvious, because people are more attached to money than preserving our ecosystems. If we were smart, we could do more with much less research. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/3802820 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3802820
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    You can't solve what you can't measure.
    - vouaobrasil 2y ago
      Again, a false dichotomy. The state of many animals is already well known enough, and the problems they face is well known enough. The debate isn't whether to measure or not, but how much measurement occurs and how it reflects the poor state of how conservation works -- which is not the fault of conservationists of course.
    - sitkack 2y ago
      The implicit argument you are making is that something has to be measurable to be worth saving. The most important things in the world you cant measure.
thatguy288 2y ago
https://www.lotek.com/products/nanopin/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanopin/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanotags/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanotags/ https://www.lotek.com/products/solar-nanotags-coded-vhf-for-birds/ https://www.lotek.com/products/solar-nanotags-coded-vhf-for-...
peppertree 2y ago
Does anyone have more in-depth technical details on these trackers? I assume they are UHF transmitters that require directional scanners?
sliken 2y ago
A friend is in involved in the sat based version. They did manage incredible optimizations for power efficiency. With a clock, pressure sensor, light sensor, a low power radio you can, and a bit of compute you can: * Use sunrise/sunset to get an idea of your longitude * Use the length of the day get an idea of your latitude * Then use the above and some orbital calculations to find a 1-2 minute window when the sat will be visible. * Use the sat communications to upload a few 100 bytes and update your local clock, and get a better idea of your longitude. Such optimizations would allow a 1-2 gram transmitter to last for months to a year.

69 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

They are missing a huge chance by not using ultra cheap SDRs like RTLSDRs. Edit: I see.. they are using RasPis. But it looks like a super complex setup.

tonyarkles 2y ago
https://archived.sensorgnome.org/How_do_I_build_a_SensorGnome/ https://archived.sensorgnome.org/How_do_I_build_a_SensorGnom... This is using a Funcube Dongle, which if I recall has much better noise performance than the normal RTLSDR devices.
fotta 2y ago
they do support RTL-SDR https://docs.motus.org/en/stations/station-equipment/antennas#radio-dongles https://docs.motus.org/en/stations/station-equipment/antenna...

smusamashah 2y ago

These trackers on the legs remind of the 70 year old albatross https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38662454 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38662454 which has the same tracker.

b112 2y ago
For some reason, I immediately thought "no way that bird is 70 years old", and reasoned that the bauble on the birds leg is now a status symbol. After all, all the other birds see humans staring, pointing, admiring the bird with it! So the bird returning for 70 years, is just whichever bird that managed to kill and take the bauble for its own. I envision a bird arena, and Spock/Kirk fight music, all of it. And here we just think it's the same bird.
- uoaei 2y ago
  That's not reason, that's post-facto rationalization. The two are often conflated, to the detriment of us all.
  - Two4 2y ago
    Hey now, don't have too much fun without the rest of us

jonathanyc 2y ago

> In looking at roost networks of bank swallows in Ontario you can identify that, “Oh, some bank swallows at night are actually going to different roosts from where their babies are,” and the adults will often trade off. We don’t know why, but they will sort of wander around and travel a hundred or more kilometers to a different place between nights. That is actually pretty surprising to me. The weirdest insight from animal trackers I’d previously heard was kind of similar—that wolves regularly travel a lot further than scientists would have expected—but trading off roosts is a whole different level.

crooked-v 2y ago
AirBnBird.

edm0nd 2y ago

[flagged]

tannhaeuser 2y ago

Been bothered for a long time that wildlife conservationists are so quick to tag animals with labels and trackers left and right. Is it really helping, or is it rather control freakery and actionism when the natural habitat or food chain or whatever is simply shrinking and there's not much that can be done about it save for full-on stopping obvious causes? Can not at least animal identities and movement be tracked or estimated with minimal-invasive methods or cameras more intelligently?

vouaobrasil 2y ago
Most of the time, tags don't seem to cause much problems but sometimes there can be some effects [1]. Conservation efforts can be effective if evidence is needed in order to fight against further land destruction (such as property development), especially when migratory birds use small but important areas for stopovers. On the other hand, a lot of conservation research is merely clarifying somewhat obvious problems, but the current capitalistic system is very inefficient when it comes to dealing with these problems: in it, you must hit people over the head with the obvious, because people are more attached to money than preserving our ecosystems. If we were smart, we could do more with much less research. [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/3802820 https://www.jstor.org/stable/3802820
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  You can't solve what you can't measure.
  - vouaobrasil 2y ago
    Again, a false dichotomy. The state of many animals is already well known enough, and the problems they face is well known enough. The debate isn't whether to measure or not, but how much measurement occurs and how it reflects the poor state of how conservation works -- which is not the fault of conservationists of course.
  - sitkack 2y ago
    The implicit argument you are making is that something has to be measurable to be worth saving. The most important things in the world you cant measure.

thatguy288 2y ago

https://www.lotek.com/products/nanopin/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanopin/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanotags/ https://www.lotek.com/products/nanotags/ https://www.lotek.com/products/solar-nanotags-coded-vhf-for-birds/ https://www.lotek.com/products/solar-nanotags-coded-vhf-for-...

peppertree 2y ago

Does anyone have more in-depth technical details on these trackers? I assume they are UHF transmitters that require directional scanners?

sliken 2y ago

A friend is in involved in the sat based version. They did manage incredible optimizations for power efficiency. With a clock, pressure sensor, light sensor, a low power radio you can, and a bit of compute you can: * Use sunrise/sunset to get an idea of your longitude * Use the length of the day get an idea of your latitude * Then use the above and some orbital calculations to find a 1-2 minute window when the sat will be visible. * Use the sat communications to upload a few 100 bytes and update your local clock, and get a better idea of your longitude. Such optimizations would allow a 1-2 gram transmitter to last for months to a year.