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I developed an iOS app which detects your sleeping position and starts buzzing if you’re on your back. Similar to the tennis-ball-sewn-into-pyjama’s hack. Apple
by gijsnijholt1980 2y ago
I developed an iOS app which detects your sleeping position and starts buzzing if you’re on your back. Similar to the tennis-ball-sewn-into-pyjama’s hack.
Apple kept refusing to approve stating medical reasons.
Still use it myself though, works great.
- jbombadil 2y agoQuestion: were the "medical reasons" specific or a generic "no because it's medical related" reason? As in, did their refusal say "no because the way you're tracking if the user is on their back is not accurate enough?" or did they say "we don't allow people to write watch apps related to medical diagnoses / treatments / etc?"
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- NelsonMinar 2y agoInteresting and frustrating story! There's an Android app I've used that does that: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koalative.torena&hl=en_US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.koalative....
- BurningFrog 2y agoHow can a phone know which position you're sleeping in?
- ASalazarMX 2y agoObviously the user untapes the tennis ball on their back, and tapes on their iPhone instead.
- xattt 2y agoI thought you were supposed to use an iPad Pro.
- NelsonMinar 2y agoI wore it on a chest strap. awkward but not impossible
- BurningFrog 2y agoAha! Yeah, that would work!
- AStonesThrow 2y agoCan you get your app to detect if your user's weight suddenly doubles while they're lying down?
- eli 2y agoMakes sense. Apple could be held liable for any false or misleading health claims made about an app.
- vasco 2y agoIronically if they stopped this gimmick they keep up to be able to charge 30% they could have the app and the developer would be the liable one. But the developer doesn't even have to make these claims, they can just put it up and say "this may detect if you're on your back". Apple isn't liable for you looking up medical misinformation that kills you using your iPhone on the Safari browser. Why would it be for an app that is clearly made by someone else? The difference is only because of the vetting, and they only do vetting to charge their fee, otherwise they'd vet other things too. It's incredible how companies bend backwards to bullet proof any liability whatsoever on anything, except if they can make money on it.
- kube-system 2y ago> they only do vetting to charge their fee, otherwise they'd vet other things too They also vet apps to keep garbage and scams out of it. Many of the things they prohibit are things that are overwhelmingly good for their users: https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines
- dylan604 2y agoNow we're into a semantics meaning over "garbage and scams", as I believe pretty much all social media apps are a form of "garbage and scams". They just happen to have enough features that people like so they accept it.
- kube-system 2y agoWhich is why Apple's page that I linked is quite a lot longer than my comment. It is more carefully worded. It also isn't based on your particular preferences or tastes, but the tastes and preferences of their target market(s), which may vary well not include you.
- ayhanfuat 2y agoHow does it detect your sleeping position? Is it based on the watch position or is there another trick?
- Spivak 2y agoIs this a sleep apnea thing because I've always been told you want to sleep on your back?
- ayhanfuat 2y agoYes, sleep apnea mostly gets worse if you sleep on your back so they suggest sleeping on your side.
- outworlder 2y agoYes, although untreated sleep apnea is dangerous and you shouldn't rely on this if you suspect you have it. It may make it better but you may still be starving your tissues of oxygen.
- jfengel 2y agoConversely, for my case: I was told that my sleep apnea didn't rise to the level of a medical condition needing intervention, but I should try to avoid sleeping on my back to help with the problems that do present.
- fahrnfahrnfahrn 2y agoI have sleep apnea that I treat with a BiPAP machine. The neurologist who manages it said that everybody has sleep apnea to some degree, and, as a matter of fact, with my BiPAP machine, I have fewer episodes than the average person.
- brandonb 2y agoWe have an app which delivers medical care, and Apple let us on but required proof of medical licenses, malpractice insurance, etc. Medical apps are allowed, but there's a higher bar for evidence.
- hulitu 2y ago> Medical apps are allowed, but there's a higher bar for evidence. Except when you are Apple. /s
- theFco 2y agoWhat do you mean? The article is about how they got FDA approval... Isn't that the way to go? As in, it's a much higher bar than having a medical license and insurance no?
- atonse 2y agoSimply not true. I once spoke to an old coworker (who's now a senior executive at a Fortune 500 company, not Apple). And he said in these large companies, there is so much discussion around risk, because the larger the company, the more of a juicy target they are for lawyers and lawsuits. So the thought that Apple wouldn't have their ducks in a row isn't true. Especially since any feature they release, will be used by millions of people pretty quickly. Just to be clear, I'm not claiming Apple doesn't give themselves special treatment in the App Store. They absolutely do (as you'd expect). Just pushing back on the notion that they wouldn't have documentation and all their legal stuff taken care of.
- Gud 2y agoDon’t assume large corporations have their shit together. They fuck up all the time.
- appendix-rock 2y ago[flagged]
- golergka 2y ago
- mullingitover 2y agoJust say it's a game. Add some social widgets ("Get your non-back sleeping scores on the leaderboard!"). Maybe throw in a T&C forbidding using it for medical purposes.
- Eric_WVGG 2y agoAny chance that you'd be interested in open-sourcing that app? A very long time ago, I got the impression that sleeping on your back is healthy, and successfully "trained" myself into the practice… now I'm trying desperately to untrain the habit 9_9
- bhelkey 2y agoIf they open source it but the app isn't allowed on the app store, how will anyone install it?
- freehorse 2y agoIn my understanding it can be allowed as long as they do not market it as medical app?
- post-it 2y agoIf they're on Mac, they can import it into XCode and install it as a development app.
- slowmotiony 2y agoWe've been sideloading iOS apps for years without any issues. You can use Xcode, or sideloadly, or altstore, or like a hundred other ways.
- freehorse 2y agoIt is healthy, unless you have sleep apnea or snore a lot.
- gmiller123456 2y agoI have sleep apnea and specifically asked my doctor if there was a best or better sleeping position, and she said no. I find laying on my back causes the least interference with the mask, but I've yet to manage to actually sleep on my back yet, been trying for like 3 years now.
- rogerrogerr 2y ago
- noman-land 2y agoEveryone's talking about the app but I'm impressed by the tennis ball idea.
- isodev 2y agoIf you’re based in Europe you could launch it on the AltStore.
- a1studmuffin 2y agoGreat minds think alike! Here's my attempt using an ESP-based smart watch that clips onto your clothes at night: https://github.com/a1studmuffin/lilygo-twatch-sleepdevice https://github.com/a1studmuffin/lilygo-twatch-sleepdevice
- pmarreck 2y agoCan you reverse the function to buzz you when you're NOT on your back if you use a cpap? (It only works most effectively when on your back.) Also, what's wrong with being on your back?
- analog31 2y agoI don't think I have sleep apnea, but I know that if I fall asleep on my back, I begin to snore, which actuates my wife's elbow, which causes me to turn onto my side.
- vibrio 2y agoThis literally just happened and now I’m posting a weak comment on HN at 2:19am.
- pmarreck 2y agoGet diagnosed!
- raffraffraff 2y agoIncidentally, I believe I had sleep apnea when I was a kid, and for years into adult life until my wife elbowed it out of me. My parents never thought I needed a diagnosis, but when I was just a few years old I got pneumonia from a bad cough and was prone to chest infections all my life afterwards. It was after I had whooping cough that my dad came in to check on me, and he noticed that I "wasn't breathing" (which he told to mum in a typically 'Irish Farmer'). She thought he was telling her that I was, in fact, dead and to my bedroom in a panic. Turns out she had previously noticed that I "didn't breathe". Basically, I'd appear to stop breathing entirely for very long periods of time. I think that the air would be very slowly leaking out for about a minute, and I'd be making a low whine noise. Then I'd take in a huge breath... and the low whine would begin again. I wasn't overweight, I was actually as thin as a rake, and my mother nicknamed me "Boney M" (which might show my age). It was when I met my wife, back in the late 90s, that it became a "problem". She'd tell me I was making a terrible noise in my sleep, and I said "oh yeah, I do that". Every time my weird breathing woke her up, she treated it as if I were snoring: elbow me and say "YOU'RE DOING IT AGAIN". And I'd kinda wake up and then focus on breathing properly as a fell back asleep. I also took up running around that time. After a few years the weird breathing (which, I now think, was asleep apnea) stopped. I had better sleep and woke refreshed, whereas all through my childhood, walking up and getting out of bed was a gargantuan effort. I could sleep till noon and still be foggy. Anyway, aside from losing weight and doing cardio, maybe a watch that activated an elbow would be an idea? Incidentally, another thing I trained myself to do was sleep with my mouth closed. I used to wake up extremely dry and absolutely need a pint of water beside the bed. I read once about surviving in the desert: keep your mouth shut too conserve moisture. So I'd intentionally keep my n mouth closed and breathe only through my nose. That worked too - except when I have a head cold, but I take antihistamines before bed to avoid blocked sinuses.
- consf 2y ago[dead]